Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #18

[Deduction]

I, too, have been having a hard time seeing that Brad "controlled" Nancy. It sounds that Brad started controlling Nancy's access to money (whether reasonably or unreasonable, I don't know...) and that was hard on Nancy. It also seems that Brad took the girl's passports. But we don't know under what circumstances or why.

Do you remember hearing Nancy's twin talk in a presser about the last time she spoke to Nancy? IIRC, she said something like--Nancy had been painting but would have preferred to be at the pool--Nancy was a bit of a princess--(I'll see if I can find a link...)

I've been trying to square this idea with what's in the affadavits and haven't yet formed a picture of Brad as "controlling" in the pathological sense. Although it may be that his controlling of access to money was the first step, and things were escalating rapidly. I don't know...

Yes, I do remember the Press Confrence where Nancy's sister said ---Nancy was a bit of a princess. I also think we can go back to the night of the party to an incidence that happened. Brad wasn't understanding what the 2 yr. old wanted and Nancy (scolded or corrected) him in front of all his friends, telling him he needed to learn to read the signals, because the child couldn't yet talk or express herself completly. I probably don't have this word for word, but the gist is there, the point I am trying to make is, this just isn't something a wife in a controlled relationship does in front of all her husbands friends.

 

[MoonFlwr]

Mt3K

But let me ask a quick question - in the days before Nancy was found and identified, and her death ruled a homicide, and the children were taken away - why in several of the press conferences are the media asking Chief Bazemore if there is a suspect or person of interest ? Nancy was only missing - she could have gone away of her own volition - why would this question be raised at all ? Does that make any sense if a person is just missing ?

I have a feeling those questions were just the media probing for any juicy details they could get (as they do!). Jumping to conclusions and/or hoping for a slip in a reply that may hint at some aspect that hadn't been mentioned.

Also, they could've been jumping to conclusions, as so many of these cases end up with the husband being found responsible for the 'disappearance'.

IMO

 

[carolinalady]

Yes, I do remember the Press Confrence where Nancy's sister said ---Nancy was a bit of a princess. I also think we can go back to the night of the party to an incidence that happened. Brad wasn't understanding what the 2 yr. old wanted and Nancy (scolded or corrected) him in front of all his friends, telling him he needed to learn to read the signals, because the child couldn't yet talk or express herself completly. I probably don't have this word for word, but the gist is there, the point I am trying to make is, this just isn't something a wife in a controlled relationship does in front of all her husbands friends.

If I'm remembering correctly, during one of the press conferences the Rentz's talked about how the girls were like Nancy. It gave me the impression she was strong willed and certainly voiced her opinion on things. I'm not saying this negates that she was a "controlled" woman. But, in conjunction with other things, leads me to believe if was not the typical controlled scenario.

 

[raisincharlie]

This circle is going to go from 360 to about 540 the crack is going to be so large IMO.
I would say there has already been an increase in the local pharmaceutical market. I
would think that treatment for paranoia and perhaps sleep aides are on the rise.

One thing I can't understand at all is this. Why did Alice Stubbs allow those friends of
Nancy's to write those Affidavits? Why? Why?" That was a huge mistake.

Deduction I don't know if you have followed very many cases that Tharrington Smith has handled, but the firm is extremely capable and depending on the situation at hand - strategy becomes variable. I know I will regret this but recall if you will the Duke Lacrosse case - Tharrington Smith represented one of those boys. A good portion of the strategy in that case was a total and public trashing of the accuser. The case was also filled with facts to support their innocence but you have to admit the headlines and talking heads were sure to discuss adnaseum the seedy points with respect to the accuser.

I am not saying anything one way or ther other about that case - just an example and please lets not go there. I don't think this is a mistake on Alice Stubb's part at all - quite the opposite. Doesn't mean I like it since it was in the public eye but I don't see it as a mistake. LE sure got tons of information to check out - without having to dig it up themselves.

 

[raisincharlie]

I have a feeling those questions were just the media probing for any juicy details they could get (as they do!). Jumping to conclusions and/or hoping for a slip in a reply that may hint at some aspect that hadn't been mentioned.

Also, they could've been jumping to conclusions, as so many of these cases end up with the husband being found responsible for the 'disappearance'.

IMO

Quess the media was right, seems like their jump was appropriate. I'm not one to blame the media for everything or to even believe they are always wrong or right - were it not for the media we would not know there were two other search warrants. Investigative reporters often hear the same things LE is hearing.

 

[chauncey7381]

It appears to me her spending habits were curtailed for excessive spending. It's clear they were living beyond their means. 300.00 weekly would be enough for me personally.

I also think some of these friends helped escalate tensions in the Cooper marriage. Jessica Adam's may have been a concerned supportive friend, although she also could have been a troublemaker too.

Yep, I reckon emotions are strung high in Lochmere.

 

[MoonFlwr]

It appears to me her spending habits were curtailed for excessive spending. It's clear they were living beyond their means. 300.00 weekly would be enough for me personally.

I also think some of these friends helped escalate tensions in the Cooper marriage. Jessica Adam's may have been a concerned supportive friend, although she also could have been a troublemaker too.

Yep, I reckon emotions are strung high in Lochmere.

Bolded quote....yes, I must say, I get that feeling, too!

 

[raisincharlie]

I am having a real problem with the words " Brad's Control of Nancy" here. Tell me did he control her when she was at the beach with MM, or was it when she was across the street at the party while he was home with the children? The women who have been the victims of REAL control would find Nancy's claim of control an insult. Also this is one reason the victims who are in truly abusive relationships often are not heard or taken seriously in the courts. The Judges and LE have seen too many pretenders.

I believe there are levels and degrees of control. Nancy had been in this country for 8 years - over the course of 8 years why didn't Brad get help through Cisco to get Nancy a green card - once he knew she was serious about the separation in March is when he finally acted. If the finances were such a problem - he had even more of a reason to pursue a geen card so Nancy could legally work. Nancy couldn't exactly obtain the geen card on her own due to the costs of an immigration lawyer. This is the proverbial catch 22. Brad could have resolved it long ago but chose not to - was it spite or control?

Nancy was free to return to Canada anytime - but to do so she would have had to leave her children behind because Brad took the passports and it seems obvious since he took those, he would not be signing any authorization to allow the children to leave either - this is control.

On other levels, as you describe , Nancy was not controlled in the conventional sense - on this level I agree with you.

 

[EntreNous]

ITA!!!!

She traveled, to the beach with MM, with her family and was going AGAIN in August without Brad and with both male and "couples" friends and she was out in the evenings late with those friends, drinking and partying. She had her own vehicle, she had her kids in partial day-care, she was going to the gym, out running/training frequently, going to Java Jive enough that a smoothie was named after Bella. Until Dec 07 Brad was working and doing an MBA, and competing in a couple of Triathalons - gone from home a lot (according to Nancy and her friends) and Nancy was eating dinner at other people's houses and having Garage Sales and doing social activities with her group of friends while he was gone. Nancy told her friends she was sleeping in her daughter's room and NOT doing Brad's laundry or cleaning his bathroom. Nancy had her own cell phone and computer access. When and how exactly was Nancy "controlled" other than Brad trying to reduce her spending starting in Jan 2008? He still wasn't controlling Nancy, just how much money she spent and on what - not her activities or her travel or her socializing. Nancy was NOT a controlled wife - not in the least. That they argued over money and Brad (probably with her agreement, at least initially) cut off the credit cards and ATM card and checking account and they went to cash only on a weekly allowance for Nancy and her household expenses, does NOT a controlled wife make. Doesn't sound like a single ACTIVITY that Nancy or the kids did was cut back (day care, dance lessons, gym membership,vacations), just the spending outlay on household and misc expenses and perhaps Nancy's personal shopping.

This is NOT even remotely a controlled wife situation - Nancy had a HUGE amount of freedom and even complained that Brad didn't call her ENOUGH. The friends say she was controlled and then say she was ignored by Brad and he was never there or engaged with her and the kids...It can't be both - she can't have been controlled and at the same time have been left alone too much and ignored while openly sleeping in another room and bragging about not doing anything for Brad. That is NOT a controlled wife.

My Opinion

This is a DEAD wife. I think that's pretty controlling personally, if it turns out BC did this. He did take her cell phone away, did follow her to the gas station and monitored how much gas went in her car, he did take the girl's passports away. I'd say that's pretty controlling.

It may not be enough for some of you but that doesn't mean it wasn't controlling. There are a million different variables in controlling another person. You don't have to experience every single one to feel controlled.

 

[Deduction]

Deduction I don't know if you have followed very many cases that Tharrington Smith has handled, but the firm is extremely capable and depending on the situation at hand - strategy becomes variable. I know I will regret this but recall if you will the Duke Lacrosse case - Tharrington Smith represented one of those boys. A good portion of the strategy in that case was a total and public trashing of the accuser. The case was also filled with facts to support their innocence but you have to admit the headlines and talking heads were sure to discuss adnaseum the seedy points with respect to the accuser.

I am not saying anything one way or ther other about that case - just an example and please lets not go there. I don't think this is a mistake on Alice Stubb's part at all - quite the opposite. Doesn't mean I like it since it was in the public eye but I don't see it as a mistake. LE sure got tons of information to check out - without having to dig it up themselves.

No, rc I haven't followed any Tharrington Smith cases or any Alice Stubbs cases for that matter. I am not even familiar with the Duke Lacrosse case shock. To be perfectly honest this is the first case I have ever followed.Even though by my own admission I am a greenhorn, I stand by my statement that Alice Stubbs has to at least wish she had looked over those Affadavits and cleared out some of the contradictory statements, at the very least. While some want to blame Brad Copper for attacking his deceased wifes reputation, it was really Alice Stubbs that pulled her own client off the pedestal that she was perched on. IMO

 

[raisincharlie]

No, rc I haven't followed any Tharrington Smith cases or any Alice Stubbs cases for that matter. I am not even familiar with the Duke Lacrosse case shock. To be perfectly honest this is the first case I have ever followed.Even though by my own admission I am a greenhorn, I stand by my statement that Alice Stubbs has to at least wish she had looked over those Affadavits and cleared out some of the contradictory statements, at the very least. While some want to blame Brad Copper for attacking his deceased wifes reputation, it was really Alice Stubbs that pulled her own client off the pedestal that she was perched on. IMO

Be glad you didn't follow the Duke case -

Honestly I don't know that the statements are truly contradictory. For example on money - what if Nancy told so and so in January that Brad gave her $80 one week. February rolls around and Nancy tells so and so Brad only gave her $50 for one week in February - I don't see a contradiction there. The biggest problem with the affidavits is there is no time relationship - without that lots of things can look contradictory - but not necessarily be contradictory at all. This is why people are put on the stand - to add the time relationship and the details.

Affidavits are much more complex in what they lack - with the exception of Carey's - no mistaking what she said

 

[EntreNous]

Originally Posted by Deduction View Post
"Yes, I do remember the Press Confrence where Nancy's sister said ---Nancy was a bit of a princess. I also think we can go back to the night of the party to an incidence that happened. Brad wasn't understanding what the 2 yr. old wanted and Nancy (scolded or corrected) him in front of all his friends, telling him he needed to learn to read the signals, because the child couldn't yet talk or express herself completly. I probably don't have this word for word, but the gist is there, the point I am trying to make is, this just isn't something a wife in a controlled relationship does in front of all her husbands friends."

I think maybe you're confusing "control" with "submission". No, I don't think Nancy was wrenched into submission by BC. Yes, I think he was controlling.

I think BC was playing mind games with NC. In fact I think there were a whole lot of mind games going on within the circle of friends.

Why would BC allow the trip with NC & MM? Was he trying to set her up? As a spouse I'd put my foot down on that one. What kind of message was he sending her? It wasn't like the trip was secret. Were NC & MM's respective spouses hoping for some drama?

 

[EntreNous]

I just discovered there is a private blog named Friends Of Nancy Cooper. Contributors or "team members" are as follows...

aikohead verveguy Michelle Art2mis JJ O'Malley Craig carrie Brian & Kristin Girard David Fetterolf Jennifer Fetterolf

Not sure who aikohead is but I know Art2mis is DD and verveguy is Brett Adam. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[raisincharlie]

I just discovered there is a private blog named Friends Of Nancy Cooper. Contributors or "team members" are as follows...

aikohead verveguy Michelle Art2mis JJ O'Malley Craig carrie Brian & Kristin Girard David Fetterolf Jennifer Fetterolf

Not sure who aikohead is but I know Art2mis is DD and verveguy is Brett Adam. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Glad it is private.

 

[Onescout]

Quess the media was right, seems like their jump was appropriate. I'm not one to blame the media for everything or to even believe they are always wrong or right - were it not for the media we would not know there were two other search warrants. Investigative reporters often hear the same things LE is hearing.

Media and LE have seen more of this kind of stuff than any of use will see in our entire lives. Give them the credit for experience....I agree they don't always get it right, but I would err on the side of those who have "been there done that".

BC could always hire a PI to investigate this case and find the killer and in return clear him, but he hasn't has he?
If his attorneys have hired a PI , I imagine it's to smear the reps/cred of all the people who accuse BC.
This may get very dirty and sticky before it gets solved!

 

[raisincharlie]

Media and LE have seen more of this kind of stuff than any of use will see in our entire lives. Give them the credit for experience....I agree they don't always get it right, but I would err on the side of those who have "been there done that".

BC could always hire a PI to investigate this case and find the killer and in return clear him, but he hasn't has he?
If his attorneys have hired a PI , I imagine it's to smear the reps/cred of all the people who accuse BC.
This may get very dirty and sticky before it gets solved!

I agree and from following the Michelle Young case I have learned that Amanda Lamb and Ed Crump both seem to have their acts together. Both have followed crime for years. Having said that, I still believe the media in asking the questions about POI's and suspects knew this was not just a missing person case very early on.

 

[carolinalady]

I just discovered there is a private blog named Friends Of Nancy Cooper. Contributors or "team members" are as follows...

aikohead verveguy Michelle Art2mis JJ O'Malley Craig carrie Brian & Kristin Girard David Fetterolf Jennifer Fetterolf

Not sure who aikohead is but I know Art2mis is DD and verveguy is Brett Adam. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Why not do a google search on aikohead? Sometimes people use the same nickname on multiple boards.

I do agree w/ RC...I think it's a good thing that it's private.

 

[Just the Fax]

I just discovered there is a private blog named Friends Of Nancy Cooper. Contributors or "team members" are as follows...

aikohead verveguy Michelle Art2mis JJ O'Malley Craig carrie Brian & Kristin Girard David Fetterolf Jennifer Fetterolf

Not sure who aikohead is but I know Art2mis is DD and verveguy is Brett Adam. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Good for them.
I am a member of a private board that was set up primarily to discuss inside information in the Michelle Young case.

 

[EntreNous]

Why not do a google search on aikohead? Sometimes people use the same nickname on multiple boards.

I do agree w/ RC...I think it's a good thing that it's private.

Well, duh. Why didn't I think of that? Thanks!

I found this...
forum.howdesign.com

Apparently this is "Mike"/Michael Morwick?
I guess this rules out the idea that NC was planning on leaving the states that Saturday.

 

[Just the Fax]

Well, duh. Why didn't I think of that? Thanks!

I found this...
forum.howdesign.com

Apparently this is "Mike"/Michael Morwick?
I guess this rules out the idea that NC was planning on leaving the states that Saturday.

Grand Jury on Monday, August 11

Will Colin Willoughby pull the trigger and allow CPD to present their case for indictment tomorrow ?

If so, look for an arrest late Monday afternoon or early evening.