National Enquirer says:JC's Kidnapper DRUGGED HER & HER KIDS

[flourish]

Calloway was an adult, but she was raped, and not a consensual relationship. Back then, when policeman asked Garrido why a guy like Garrido (presumably attractive) would have to resort to rape, Garrido supposedly replied that he would get sexual gratification through forced sex.
So if JC "bonded" with him after some time, and wasn't resisting, I suppose it is possible he stopped having sex with her.

Okay, while this made me dry heave for a second, not only because it's so disguisting to think about, but because it makes a lot of sense. Good point, jjenny.

(Okay, not to be ridiculous here, but I need to add this Disclaimer: the following paragraph is based soley on my own experience and/or interpretations of others' experiences. It's to be considered only my opinion. Also, I already know about the controversy surrounding psychotropic prescription meds, so if you're feeling the need to discuss that aspect of my statement, I'd prefer if you refrain.)

I was prescribed Valium once years ago, to help with some trauma, and was shocked at how much it made everything just kind of float away where I could still generally function, but just didn't care much about anything going on around or inside of me. At the time, it was very helpful, but it's probably a good thing there were no refills available. I've also taken Xanax and Klonopin for anxiety and while they were much less debilitating than the Valium, they had a similar effect. I would imagine it wouldn't be too good of an idea to give them marijuana to go out in public, though, because there could be too many giggles and "permagrin" for that. And possibly increased paranoia.

 

[SunnieRN]

It does not say she was afraid of the joint.
The fear was of not doing it right, or when she detected him pushing it back into her hands in anger.

The fear I read was of his reaction.

Makes more sense than when I read it earlier! Thanks.

 

[time]

TIME: so what do you want to believe? If you do not believe a criminal profiler about what they know, and you do not believe in leaks, and you read that the sightings of the girls always include that they were in a haze and a daze, And we know that JC did not even leave the back for 3.5 years?

YES mind control can be done many ways one of which is emotional abuse.
But as in other cases that we have read a rapist often drugs his victim so he can gain control
of them, so they are more helpless, and don't resist as much.

Believe what ever works for you...I think this information makes much sense to me.
But then again I did read the article.

I have respect for a lot of criminal profilers, the question is what criminal profilers. Pat Brown is not really well respected as far as criminal profilers go, she's more of a talking head, but I'm not going to divert attention here to the evidence I could give on some of her shoddy analyses of criminals.

It's not a matter of 'belief' anyway, it's a matter of principal and having some confidence in the information - I would be shocked if she weren't given drugs or alcohol, but controlling someone psychologically can be done by a number of means as is well known. These other means could result in the "haze and a daze" as you describe given that we do not really have any analysis or facts yet that at the time people saw these girls they were on drugs. I just don't want to keep spreading things as if they are absolute facts about this case when the sources are not questioned.

Since you keep repeating this...

"And we know that JC did not even leave the back for 3.5 years?"

Can you tell us how we KNOW that for a fact?

And, even if you did read the article, does that mean what is in there should be taken as fact? I am not going to buy NE in order to argue what is actually int here. I do not think the article, at this point, where it is unavailable except for purchase and can't be cited directly, should be worthy of a separate thread, let alone acting like what was said in it is fact. If they are claiming those facts came anonymously from sources inside LE, then I want their hide and, if true, the hide of the person close to the investigation who was 'leaking' info like this - rather than promote sensational media on Jaycee. I'm sure they are making a bundle off of her. :loser:

 

[songline]

I have respect for a lot of criminal profilers, the question is what criminal profilers. Pat Brown is not really well respected as far as criminal profilers go, she's more of a talking head, but I'm not going to divert attention here to the evidence I could give on some of her shoddy analyses of criminals.

It's not a matter of 'belief' anyway, it's a matter of principal and having some confidence in the information - I would be shocked if she weren't given drugs or alcohol, but controlling someone psychologically can be done by a number of means as is well known. These other means could result in the "haze and a daze" as you describe given that we do not really have any analysis or facts yet that at the time people saw these girls they were on drugs. I just don't want to keep spreading things as if they are absolute facts about this case when the sources are not questioned.

Since you keep repeating this...

"And we know that JC did not even leave the back for 3.5 years?"

Can you tell us how we KNOW that for a fact?

And, even if you did read the article, does that mean what is in there should be taken as fact? I am not going to buy NE in order to argue what is actually int here. I do not think the article, at this point, where it is unavailable except for purchase and can't be cited directly, should be worthy of a separate thread, let alone acting like what was said in it is fact. If they are claiming those facts came anonymously from sources inside LE, then I want their hide and, if true, the hide of the person close to the investigation who was 'leaking' info like this - rather than promote sensational media on Jaycee. I'm sure they are making a bundle off of her. :loser:

WHATEVER... I cant give any energy to bickering....
just TWO points....
----Known Fact: most rapist use drugs to sedate their victim.
----They are making a bundle off Obama too... - papers run with what people want to read.

 

[time]

WHATEVER... I cant give any energy to bickering....
just TWO points....
----Known Fact: most rapist use drugs to sedate their victim.
----They are making a bundle off Obama too... - papers run with what people want to read.

Where is your reference for that "KNOWN FACT". I am not saying that is not true, but intuitively one might argue that there are many rapists who don't have time or take the time to sedate their victims, they just use force. Please do not cite something as a fact if you do not want to support what you say with a valid reference.

I don't think making bucks off of Obama is the same as making bucks off a girl who has been abused and victimized for 18 years nor do I th ink we need to headline sensationalized media about Jaycee, then act as if it is factual when no one can even read nor quote what was actually said - this looks a bit like an ad for buying the NE in the next week :furious:

 

[Stephens]

Yes, this seems like something Garrido would do to rape his victims or to make the girls more submissive, considering he's a junkie and he actually did this before as a rapist (Calloway with hash). And, I must admit, it helps makes sense of why the girls' behavior seem so different now versus when they were at Berkeley. However, I would not trust the National Enquirer. On certain stories (e.g., OJ Simpson, John Edwards) they are oddly enough the paper of record. However, they have already shown themselves to flat-out wrong with the business photo nonsense. And it's not like it was that difficult to figure out it was either not true or the source was not credible, yet they made it seem like it was true. Even if it had been Dugard, it was cruel to publish photos of a (child) rape victim against her will.

@JJenny: Even if Dugard was totally submissive to Garrido, it would still be rape, a violation, what he was obsessed with. I don't think he stopped raping Dugard simply because her resistance decreased or stopped. He already admitted to Callaway he didn't desire anti-female sadism *as much* as he desired total (misogynistic) control and he had that with Dugard as his captive. Personally, I think it's sadistic to control another human being that way, but it helps to try and distinguish his motives. In that case Callaway told him why not pull over and rape her in the nearby bushes. He flatly rejected that, telling her she had "no choice" over the matter, insisting on driving for hours to Reno. Hence, the bizarre world he forced Dugard and her girls to live in where he played "God."

Obviously, I doubt he was a benevolent dictator, if there is such a thing, considering that absolute power corrupts absolutely, but it seems Garrido stopped raping Dugard for other reasons than her being too submissive. Especially, since I'm guessing she was submissive from the beginning considering she was but a child who was desperate to just survive.

 

[not_my_kids]

Do we have a "Confirmed Facts Thread"?
Or at least confirmed by a source that can be directly quoted with a link?
It would be a short thread right now, but a good idea to keep the bickering to a minimum. Everything that is in an article will be linkable at some point soon, so it could really be a great help.

 

[time]

There is a questions and answers thread but I can't answer about a confirmed facts thread

 

[JakeTucker]

I just had a quick Google ('jaycee dugard 3 years first locked up') as I was interested myself from where the 3 year thing came from.
Top of Google's list.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2163889/jaycee_dugard_kept_in_isolation_for.html

"Once there, they put Jaycee in one of the tents and kept her locked up for three ½ years. Though they aren't sure who is releasing the information, it is suspected that it is Nancy Garrido, in an attempt to gain leniency in the case."

 

[Missizzy]

One thought I had is that surely, Patricia must have had some meds prescribed (remember the pill bottles sitting around?). If she was diagnosed with dementia, it's possible that she had a number of meds ie. anti-anxiety and sedatives.

Flourish, I too have had prescriptions for the meds you mention on occasion and I fully agree. I remember my family giggling about how compliant and "swoopy" I was. Thank goodness my husband is a good man. It's very easy for me to imagine the little girls and/or Jaycee being controlled by psychotropics. These meds can be very dangerous in the wrong hands.

After raising a large number of children with differing diagnoses and a number of mental health issues, I've handled lots of meds. It's always shocked me that people use these meds recreationally but they do. We've had bottles of Ritalin and Adderal stolen from both the YMCA and 2 schools (from locked cabinets). Remember, these two meds are stimulants but have the reverse affect on children by calming them down. I wonder what they would do to a young child without attention issues or hyperactivity? We also lost a bottle of Xanax (prescribed for a child with severe PTSD due to rape flash-backs) to theft. These meds can be bought on the street. Good old cough syrup and antihistamines can be misused also. Those can be bought at any store.

We all know that PG was a resourceful man, don't we? Meds are discarded inappropriately all the time and PG spent a lot of time looking through trash. It appears to me that the man had access--one way or another.

 

[Stephens]

@JakeTucker: Thanks, Jake. I *thought* I had read that Dugard was kept locked up somewhere. It answers a question I had in another thread.

 

[time]

Again, this (the 3 1/2 years comment) is spreading like a meme on the internet, like some viral video - here is my comment about it

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4302914&postcount=66"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Corruption? Contra Costa County[/ame]


If anyone knows of any other source verifying the 3 1/2 years, I'd like to hear of it. I'm not saying it is not true, but everyone keeps citing the same article and the same source of that assertion, Michael Cardoza. Cardoza is currently defending Michael Gresset who is a Contra Costa Count Sex Crimes Prosecutor charged with 12 felonies of forced rape and sodomy.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_11044936?nclick_check=1

The charges include four counts of sodomy by force, three counts of forced sexual penetration, two counts of forcible rape, and single counts of oral copulation by force and false imprisonment. In the last charge, state prosecutors claim Gressett threatened a crime "which would result in death and great bodily injury to Jane Doe, with the specific intent that the statement be taken as a threat."

Cardoza has been making the rounds on TV with these claims. I find that weird.

 

[Billylee]

Yes, this seems like something Garrido would do to rape his victims or to make the girls more submissive, considering he's a junkie and he actually did this before as a rapist (Calloway with hash). And, I must admit, it helps makes sense of why the girls' behavior seem so different now versus when they were at Berkeley. However, I would not trust the National Enquirer. On certain stories (e.g., OJ Simpson, John Edwards) they are oddly enough the paper of record. However, they have already shown themselves to flat-out wrong with the business photo nonsense. And it's not like it was that difficult to figure out it was either not true or the source was not credible, yet they made it seem like it was true. Even if it had been Dugard, it was cruel to publish photos of a (child) rape victim against her will.

I've been kinda chuckling about the National Enquirer jibs here. My mother in law (the one with dementia) lovessss to read them and the globe and other exagerated tabloids, so I buy them for her when I see a new one. When I put them on the counter to pay for them, I turn them upside down!!! hahahaha, cuz I don't want anyone looking at me thinking I read that crap! And if the opportunity arises, I ALWAYS try to tell the checker "My Mom loves these", does that make me paranoid? lol Anyway, what I really wanted to say is that the quote above in red, is totally accurate. Heavy on the word "seem"!
That's how they make their living selling these papers. Doesn't mean they can't luck out and get something right some times though.

 

[kbl8201]

JC was intervied by LE and the NE has their sources.

Also the sightings of the girls whenever they were seen in public said their eyes were blank, glazed, empty, or they were staring, or that they were attached to him...

When a child is never out in public and is out rarely if they are on a drug they may be paranoid - that is why the staring, or attachment to PG. THAT is what makes sense...On a drug stupper.

CRIMINAL PROFILER : Pat Brown Said it is not unusual for Rapists and Kidnappers to us drugs to control their victims.

i believe this is a real possibillity, and the profiler may be correct. but please, when we say 'the ne has its sources!' remmeber the source that claimed jaycee was still in love with garrido...........think that's been pretty much debunked.
but like i said, this is possible, given wheat w ealready know about his drug use/posseision/parties.

 

[mysteriew]

NE isn't one of my fav newspapers when I am looking for facts. But the thought has crossed my mind before.

It has been alleged that both PG and NG did drugs themselves. And PG did make Calloway use drugs when he had her. So it wouldn't surprise me to find that PG gave Jaycee drugs. First to ensure her compliance after the kidnapping, then to ensure her compliance and keep her quiet and keep her from running away.

Now it does surprise me to hear that he might have given the girls drugs. They supposedly didn't know anything. They supposedly weren't abused. They were already under his control. So if he was giving them drugs, he had another reason for that. IF he saw himself as their father, and saw himself as a protective father that took care of his kids, I don't see how he why he would give them drugs. Unless they were seeing him using, and wanted to be "like Daddy". Then he may have allowed them to share with him.

Normally I pretty much believe the victim, and Jaycee has allegedly made statements that the girls were not abused. But if he was giving them drugs, then to me it brings up the question of whether or not they were abused while they were drugged.

 

[kbl8201]

NE isn't one of my fav newspapers when I am looking for facts. But the thought has crossed my mind before.

It has been alleged that both PG and NG did drugs themselves. And PG did make Calloway use drugs when he had her. So it wouldn't surprise me to find that PG gave Jaycee drugs. First to ensure her compliance after the kidnapping, then to ensure her compliance and keep her quiet and keep her from running away.

Now it does surprise me to hear that he might have given the girls drugs. They supposedly didn't know anything. They supposedly weren't abused. They were already under his control. So if he was giving them drugs, he had another reason for that. IF he saw himself as their father, and saw himself as a protective father that took care of his kids, I don't see how he why he would give them drugs. Unless they were seeing him using, and wanted to be "like Daddy". Then he may have allowed them to share with him.

Normally I pretty much believe the victim, and Jaycee has allegedly made statements that the girls were not abused. But if he was giving them drugs, then to me it brings up the question of whether or not they were abused while they were drugged.

can we put this under 'tabloid rumors'
seriously why do we put faith in every single thing to come out of these rags............its possible they were all drugged. its possible just jaycee was drugged. its possible none of them were drugged. who knows? if jaycee really did tell le that they were all druggged, then how can she say they werent being abused? and why is le allegedly leaking this info/ seriously soemtimes you have to question the idiocy of these articles

 

[Natal]

Also the sightings of the girls whenever they were seen in public said their eyes were blank, glazed, empty, or they were staring, or that they were attached to him...

I think it was only the berkley cops that said that. Everyone else thought they were shy but normal.

 

[Natal]

I'd believe that she was drugged, at least in the beginning, but later on, there would have been no reason to drug her.
The perps in cases like this have to have a way of knowing that their control is absolute. Drugs help that, it makes the victims thoughts and actions, right down to the time they sleep, totally pliable to the perp.
Not surprised a bit.
Also not buying the Enquirer.

He would have no reason to drug her later, but if he was doing drugs himself he would probably be making them available to others in the household, including her.

 

[Natal]

That's how they make their living selling these papers. Doesn't mean they can't luck out and get something right some times though.

What the tabloids do is get someone to make a quote and that becomes the story. That way they are never lieing, they are just reporting what someone said. However, what that person said doesn't neccessarily have to be true though, it could be true, it could be a half truth, it could be wishful thinking or it could be outright fabrication. So sometimes they get it right, but usually it is a distortion of the truth.

 

[Natal]

Now it does surprise me to hear that he might have given the girls drugs. They supposedly didn't know anything. They supposedly weren't abused. They were already under his control. So if he was giving them drugs, he had another reason for that. IF he saw himself as their father, and saw himself as a protective father that took care of his kids, I don't see how he why he would give them drugs. Unless they were seeing him using, and wanted to be "like Daddy". Then he may have allowed them to share with him.

It wouldnt surprise me if he did. If he had created his own little world in the back garden it would have been run by his rules, not society's. If he didnt see anything wrong with drug use he may not have seen anything wrong with those around him doing it as well.

It might not been quite as simple as that though, the house itself would have had to been kept drug free in case of a parole officer visit. But, since the backyard was "unknown" to the PO, it would have been a safe area to conduct those sorts of activities. So, if he was doing drugs in the later years the girls would probably have at least been familiar with them.