NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

I totally believe that JM is guilty as sin, but that one fact has always bothered me as well. How did HS know about the broken spring on the rocking horse?

Does anyone have a source for the "rocking horse" story? I'm not doubting you, Blondie, or anyone else who remembers it. I believe it was reported.

It's just that Helena said so many vague things over the years before her death, I'm wondering how specific she was and/or whether she could have learned that detail from an interrogator.

Of course, she said so much nonsense, maybe the odds were in her favor that she would eventually get something accidentally right.
 
On rereading this thread, I noted the posts about military bases in the 60s and 70s and their gates.

Does anybody know whether the MacDonald duplex was inside or outside the base gates?

And the reported siting of a "hippie chick with a floppy hat and candle in the rain" by one of the MPs on his way to the crime scene: does anyone know where that took place? Again, I'm wondering whether inside or outside the gates.

This is an old case and I don't expect anybody to make a research project out of this. I'm merely wondering if anyone knows off the top of his/her head...
 
What has always stood out to me was the fact that Colette and the girls were so brutally murdered and that Macdonald, who was supposedly fighting 'the intruders' had relatively few injuries in comparison to them.

Guilty as charged and convicted
 
Does anyone have a source for the "rocking horse" story? I'm not doubting you, Blondie, or anyone else who remembers it. I believe it was reported.

It's just that Helena said so many vague things over the years before her death, I'm wondering how specific she was and/or whether she could have learned that detail from an interrogator.

Of course, she said so much nonsense, maybe the odds were in her favor that she would eventually get something accidentally right.

On the "48 Hours" program I watched recently it said pictures from the crime scene disproved that the spring on the rocking horse was broken.
 
Does anyone have a source for the "rocking horse" story? I'm not doubting you, Blondie, or anyone else who remembers it. I believe it was reported.

It's just that Helena said so many vague things over the years before her death, I'm wondering how specific she was and/or whether she could have learned that detail from an interrogator.

Of course, she said so much nonsense, maybe the odds were in her favor that she would eventually get something accidentally right.


On the flip side-I had one of those when I was a youngster as did friends and family. I was given one for my tots-have you ever seen one WITHOUT a broken spring? Just sayin...those springs would pop 10 seconds into riding the horse.
 
Nova, IIRC FT Bragg was open, and had checkpoints but no gates. Anyone else remember?
 
Nova, IIRC FT Bragg was open, and had checkpoints but no gates. Anyone else remember?

That's the way I remember it, but it's been a long time since I read the book.

Good point about the rocking horse spring....those always did pop off frequently!
 
How could he get an honorable discharge? I can't believe that!!! Also, does anyone know about the neighbor that lived on the other side of the wall? Were they ever interviewed? Surely when you abuse your wife you don't go from never touching her to death. Does anyone know if there was ever a report of him hitting her or shouting at her in an abusive tone?

BTW I didn't realize that he wrote a confession.
 
How could he get an honorable discharge? I can't believe that!!! Also, does anyone know about the neighbor that lived on the other side of the wall? Were they ever interviewed? Surely when you abuse your wife you don't go from never touching her to death. Does anyone know if there was ever a report of him hitting her or shouting at her in an abusive tone?

BTW I didn't realize that he wrote a confession.

Hi bt33,
Where did you hear he wrote a confession?
 
Anyone who really thinks Dr. Jeff might be innocent should get a copy of Fatal Vision and read ONLY the trial testimony. Compare the physical evidence with his explaination.

McDonald's problem was the same as other defendants who are claiming complete factual innocence: he had to balance the jury's obvious interest in hearing his "explaination" for the evidence against him that the D.A. will introduce against what might happen during cross examination.

He had managed to get so many people to believe him over the years that he over-estimated his skill at lying. Actually, the only peole who believed him were those who weren't privy to all of the forensic details. Once people learned the truth, they dropped him.
 
Great posts,

Read both Fatal Vision and Fatal Justice and tons of reports on the case. Came to the conclusion that yes, he is guilty. One correction, it was on on Army Base, not a Marine Base. What no one wants to talk about is something that was not presented at trial called the Fire Island Four.

Macdonald had met the Fire Island Four about six months prior to the killings when he was staying at his brother Jay's house. Shockingly, these people had an exact resemblance right down to a woman in a Floppy Hat! But, Jeff could not use the FIF in his intruder story, because they were proven to be in New York at the time of the murders. Stockley and her friends were an easier "fit."

What I keep going back to is that picture in Fatal Vision. Look again and again at how neat that crime scene is, spare the overturned coffee table and the neatly stacked magazines/newspapers. There was probably about 4-5 feet of space between the couch and the coffee table, hardly enough room for maybe one person to move around in. Four people simply could not fight and kill in such a small area.

McDonald, who had poor night vision could not have seen what he claimed to have seen with only a flickering light or candle if one was present. And how would four hippies on drugs plan such an organized crime scene in the living room where nothing is disturbed? At what point did Helena light a candle? None of the alleged intruders would be able to navigate the house well enough under the influence of drugs and leave nothing disturbed. The candle could not have been it from the outside coming into the house, because the wick would have been wet from the rain.

And his family is slaughtered beyond recognition, especially Collette and Kim, Kristen very badly as well. However, Macdonald only has one moderately serious wound to his lung. The others were cuts and scratches all superficial with 1-2 bruises on his forehead. The puncture wound is very small. Hippies in a frenzy, would have left more jagged wounds to Macdonald.

But get this, in this supposed attack with each member of the family injured to various degrees, NONE of the hippies are injured at all! These were the ones who did the killings. Yet, not a scratch on them! And someone they have the foresite to just drive away and FJ makes an issue about people being seen at a Dunkon Donuts with blood on their hands. I can't accept this, because of the time-line involved.

Evidence shows between 30-50 pieces of crime scene information that paint a different picture than McDonald's view of what he claims happened that night. He's guilty.

Satch
 
So, who were the " the Fire Island Four"?
 
How could he get an honorable discharge? I can't believe that!!! Also, does anyone know about the neighbor that lived on the other side of the wall? Were they ever interviewed? Surely when you abuse your wife you don't go from never touching her to death. Does anyone know if there was ever a report of him hitting her or shouting at her in an abusive tone?

BTW I didn't realize that he wrote a confession.

I'm sure JM never wrote a confession. Perhaps you mean some of the things he wrote to his father-in-law that later seemed incriminating, mostly because they were untrue.

He got an honorable discharge because the Army didn't find enough evidence to convict him. Nine years passed before a federal prosecutor put a successful case together.

It's been too long for you to trust my memory, but, I believe a resident of the other half of the duplex testified that she heard a muffled argument on the night of the murders. That may be what gave the prosecutor the idea that the whole thing started with an argument between JM and his wife. IIRC, nothing about the neighbor's testimony suggested 4 hippies were doing battle with a Green Beret!
 
Nova, IIRC FT Bragg was open, and had checkpoints but no gates. Anyone else remember?

Checkpoints are as good as gates to me. I'll assume for the sake of argument that it was physically possible to get around them unseen somehow; checkpoints still make the base an unlikely place to stage a random attack.
 
Anyone who really thinks Dr. Jeff might be innocent should get a copy of Fatal Vision and read ONLY the trial testimony. Compare the physical evidence with his explaination.

McDonald's problem was the same as other defendants who are claiming complete factual innocence: he had to balance the jury's obvious interest in hearing his "explaination" for the evidence against him that the D.A. will introduce against what might happen during cross examination.

He had managed to get so many people to believe him over the years that he over-estimated his skill at lying. Actually, the only peole who believed him were those who weren't privy to all of the forensic details. Once people learned the truth, they dropped him.

Just one more element Dr. M shares with Darlie Routier: that their trial testimony is so self-consciously molded to the prosecution theory that they lack all credibility.
 
What an interesting thread! I read the book many years ago. Don't remember much about it. I think it is pretty clear, based on solid crime-scene evidence, that the man is guilty. It is ridiculous that he still claims to be innocent after all these years. You would think he would just give it up at some point.
 
What an interesting thread! I read the book many years ago. Don't remember much about it. I think it is pretty clear, based on solid crime-scene evidence, that the man is guilty. It is ridiculous that he still claims to be innocent after all these years. You would think he would just give it up at some point.

What else is he going to spend his time on? And he does have his supporters (including a new wife!), some of whom have been financing multiple appeals over the years.

I've read Fatal Vision at least four times (over 30 years, so my memory is by no means infallible); it's one of my all-time favorite true crime books.

But I should point out that the prosecution withheld some evidence at the trial, evidence that Joe McGuinness, the author of the book, didn't know about.

MacDonald's supporters claim the crime-scene evidence isn't so convincing once one has all the facts. You can find sites discussing problems with the evidence all over the internet.

Thus far, the evidentiary problems haven't swayed an appellate court (or me).
 
what about the hair in the children's hands??

Well that's all smoke and mirrors just like him. One unidentified hair was found under Kris's fingernail. However so was grass and dirt as the children were not bathed that night. So, unless the hippies dragged the child outside into the dirt and grass, that hair could have been there for days and it's too small to test.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com
 
It's absured that Dr. Jeff still has his legions of groupies who continue to fund his defense. The issue has been beaten to death but there are folks that will never acknowledge the obvious. There are people out there who continue to believe the earth is flat and there is no point arguing with them. Before you get out your checkbook however, you might take a look at the link above. It pretty well sums up the case.
 

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