NEW NEPAL - Zisimos Souflas, Mount Everest region, 24 April 2012
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I know the base altitude given for altitude sickness is 8k ft, but I can tell you, I've experienced it at 7,250 ft. And it didn't hit me immediately, it was probably 12-18 hours later. I think people's altitude tilt switch varies, particularly due to where they grew up. (I grew up at sea level.)
I wonder if Zisimos (and Aubrey) could have fallen ill in some small village and simply been cared for and (if he (and she) passed) buried by the locals. I guess I'd rather think that's what happened (if they are passed) than something more nefarious.
I wonder if Zisimos (and Aubrey) could have fallen ill in some small village and simply been cared for and (if he (and she) passed) buried by the locals. I guess I'd rather think that's what happened (if they are passed) than something more nefarious.
I agree. In my opinion, a hiker can start feeling the altitude at 5000 feet. Also, the condition is unpredictable, and afflicts people regardless of their level of physical strength.
The trails they were trekking are in large parks which cater heavily to the tourists. We cannot rule out that they suffered altitude sickness, then became disoriented and wandered away from the main trails. But if any of the locals had found them in either of those areas, they would have been recognized as Westerners. The proper procedure would have been to notify the local police, who would investigate the incident and contact the families.
In my opinion, the case of Debbie Maveau, who was murdered, was an anomaly.
Each case should be examined separately, and similarities considered.
As we have discussed before, the case of Zisimos Souflas and the case of Aubrey Sacco have many strong similarities.
Also, the ZS case has some elements in common with the 2004 case of Gareth Koch.
Gareth Koch traveled to the Khumbu to hike to Everest Base Camp with a companion, but they got involved in a personal dispute, and separated. Both visited EBC but with different parties. Later, after returning to Katmandu, the companion felt remorse and tried to verify that GK had safely left the Khumbu region, but he was contacted by a co-worker back home and falsely told that GK was already back in the UK.
Source: http://bgarethkochlostinnepal.runboard.com/t83
GK was last seen leaving a guest house in Chukkung (many different spellings used), and believed to be heading back towards Dingboche (which is right near Pheriche), and eventually to Namche Bazaar. As you can see on the map above, this area is on the main trail in between EBC and Namche Bazaar.
Similarly, in the ZS case, we have confusion over the phone calls, and where exactly he was on the 27th of April, three days after he was last reported seen, when he called his friend ST. If the cell phone was spoofed, the intention may have been to create a false impression that ZS was in the area of Namche Bazaar.
Walker,
I think using Lonely Planet as a resource is a brilliant idea. I am a huge fan of the series and it is often the best (and at times only) guide to obscure places, especially if you're trying to travel on the cheap. I have been places where every American had a lonely planet, you could recognize the color of the cover out of people's back pockets. Unfortunately, LP readers don't tend to be the most cautious travelers and LP sometimes suggests locations that aren't the safest places to travel. In the last decade or so they've gotten more responsible about this. Their Russia book actually refused to cover certain war torn regions. Their Panama book (gosh, 15 years ago?) actually described a border crossing so remote that it told you where the border guard had lunch so you could go find him if he wasn't there. My point is, ZS seems like a LP kind of backpacker. Not naive, but unfettered by the cautiousness that prevents some people from truly living but on rare occasions may lead one into danger.
This is by no means a dig on ZS, just an attempt to gain insight into where he may have gone. I wonder what I commend him for embarking on a trek that for most would be just a pipe dream.
I wonder if the Rough Guide has different side trips listed. That's in the same general type of book.
-Necco
I think using Lonely Planet as a resource is a brilliant idea. I am a huge fan of the series and it is often the best (and at times only) guide to obscure places, especially if you're trying to travel on the cheap. I have been places where every American had a lonely planet, you could recognize the color of the cover out of people's back pockets. Unfortunately, LP readers don't tend to be the most cautious travelers and LP sometimes suggests locations that aren't the safest places to travel. In the last decade or so they've gotten more responsible about this. Their Russia book actually refused to cover certain war torn regions. Their Panama book (gosh, 15 years ago?) actually described a border crossing so remote that it told you where the border guard had lunch so you could go find him if he wasn't there. My point is, ZS seems like a LP kind of backpacker. Not naive, but unfettered by the cautiousness that prevents some people from truly living but on rare occasions may lead one into danger.
This is by no means a dig on ZS, just an attempt to gain insight into where he may have gone. I wonder what I commend him for embarking on a trek that for most would be just a pipe dream.
I wonder if the Rough Guide has different side trips listed. That's in the same general type of book.
-Necco
ZSs brother and some friends went to Namche Bazaar to visit the Hotel Tibet, the last place where ZS was seen. On the same day that they landed in Katmandu, a huge avalanche occurred, and therefore ZSs story got less attention on the news.
The group took a plane to Lukla (known as the most dangerous airfield in the world) just as ZS had done; the following day, the very same plane crashed killing 19 people. They hiked to Namche Bazaar, and met with the police in that small remote town, and a conference was held regarding ZSs disappearance.
However, the townspeople were angry at ZSs friends and his brother, because they assume that if ZSs case becomes well-known, their businesses might lose money. They even launched a campaign to stop! the police investigation and take down all the missing posters.
Hopefully, the people will realize that their businesses depend on the trust of the tourists; in the long term, supporting the investigation and showing sympathy for the grieving searchers is not only the right thing to do, but it would actually bolster their future financial prospects as well.
Source: http://www.facebook.com/groups/158238870967573/
The group took a plane to Lukla (known as the most dangerous airfield in the world) just as ZS had done; the following day, the very same plane crashed killing 19 people. They hiked to Namche Bazaar, and met with the police in that small remote town, and a conference was held regarding ZSs disappearance.
However, the townspeople were angry at ZSs friends and his brother, because they assume that if ZSs case becomes well-known, their businesses might lose money. They even launched a campaign to stop! the police investigation and take down all the missing posters.
Hopefully, the people will realize that their businesses depend on the trust of the tourists; in the long term, supporting the investigation and showing sympathy for the grieving searchers is not only the right thing to do, but it would actually bolster their future financial prospects as well.
Source: http://www.facebook.com/groups/158238870967573/
Correction: ZS did not actually fly to Lukla. He took the bus to Jiri, and started hiking from there.
http://searchingforzisimos.com/search-timeline/
http://searchingforzisimos.com/search-timeline/
Tourist arrivals down 7.3% in Oct
http://myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=44320
[Source: ]REPUBLICA
http://myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=44293
Tourist number down at Sagarmatha park
[ZS signed into this park on April 23, 2012].
http://myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=44293
http://myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=44320
[Source: ]REPUBLICA
http://myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=44293
Tourist number down at Sagarmatha park
[ZS signed into this park on April 23, 2012].
http://myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=44293
ZS’s phone had a record in its call history of a call made on April 27, 2012 to one of ZS’s contacts which was not picked up; while the phone itself was stored in a room at the Hotel Tibet in Namche Bazaar. According to the hotel staff, no one had access to the room during this time period, nor did any member of the staff attempt to contact any associate of ZS prior to May 15, when his family in the UK realized that he had missed his flight to Manchester Airport, and reported him missing.
My previous suggestion was that ZS’s cell phone had been “spoofed.”
Spoofing might not be the correct term for the process that may have been used. Ordinarily “spoofing” a phone means that the display of the incoming caller’s number is altered; therefore, the call receiver is deceived about the origin of an incoming call. Telemarketers will frequently use this technique to persuade potential customers to answer their calls.
Apparently, however (as far as I can determine) spoofing a phone call would in no way affect the call history of the phone whose number was used as the spoof. In other words, if ZS’s number was used to spoof the phone of one of his contacts, the only result would be that the contact’s phone would falsely display that it had received a call from ZS’s number. Under normal circumstances, the two separate phone histories would never be reconciled in any way. Therefore, ZS’s phone would be completely unaffected in this case.
Cell phones can be activated remotely using computers and smart phones. This technique is used for various spying activities.
Maybe ZS’s phone was activated via remote for the purpose of forwarding all of his calls to another location. Perhaps some person or group wanted to monitor who might be concerned about his whereabouts.
ZS was not likely the victim of a common . How would a stranger know ZS’s cell phone number, and why would they be interested in his social or business contacts?
The trails above and around Namche Bazaar are hazardous; he may indeed have met with an accident; but did he just happen to meet with an accident at around the same time that his cell phone was also being bluebugged?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebugging
ZS’s main purpose in going to Nepal was to attend the wedding of a friend. Speaking generally, ZS’s friend and other associates in Nepal in such a situation would likely take an interest in his subsequent travels about Nepal, perhaps they would also feel some concern for his safety as he hiked in the mountains, and they would likely plan on meeting with ZS at least once before his final departure back to the UK on May 15.
Did the call to ST on 27 April offer some excuse as to why he would be completely out of contact for longer than 18 days?
My previous suggestion was that ZS’s cell phone had been “spoofed.”
Spoofing might not be the correct term for the process that may have been used. Ordinarily “spoofing” a phone means that the display of the incoming caller’s number is altered; therefore, the call receiver is deceived about the origin of an incoming call. Telemarketers will frequently use this technique to persuade potential customers to answer their calls.
Apparently, however (as far as I can determine) spoofing a phone call would in no way affect the call history of the phone whose number was used as the spoof. In other words, if ZS’s number was used to spoof the phone of one of his contacts, the only result would be that the contact’s phone would falsely display that it had received a call from ZS’s number. Under normal circumstances, the two separate phone histories would never be reconciled in any way. Therefore, ZS’s phone would be completely unaffected in this case.
Cell phones can be activated remotely using computers and smart phones. This technique is used for various spying activities.
Maybe ZS’s phone was activated via remote for the purpose of forwarding all of his calls to another location. Perhaps some person or group wanted to monitor who might be concerned about his whereabouts.
ZS was not likely the victim of a common . How would a stranger know ZS’s cell phone number, and why would they be interested in his social or business contacts?
The trails above and around Namche Bazaar are hazardous; he may indeed have met with an accident; but did he just happen to meet with an accident at around the same time that his cell phone was also being bluebugged?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebugging
ZS’s main purpose in going to Nepal was to attend the wedding of a friend. Speaking generally, ZS’s friend and other associates in Nepal in such a situation would likely take an interest in his subsequent travels about Nepal, perhaps they would also feel some concern for his safety as he hiked in the mountains, and they would likely plan on meeting with ZS at least once before his final departure back to the UK on May 15.
Did the call to ST on 27 April offer some excuse as to why he would be completely out of contact for longer than 18 days?
AS sent an email to her parents from inside Langtang National Park telling them that not only was she going to tackle the main trail alone, but that she might be out of communication for more than the planned 10 days as she also wanted to investigate "side trails."
Could possibly suggest that she was making an excuse, persuaded, or somehow even forced to make such an excuse to buy extra time before her parents reported her missing.
Related post from AS thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8130501&postcount=98
Could possibly suggest that she was making an excuse, persuaded, or somehow even forced to make such an excuse to buy extra time before her parents reported her missing.
Related post from AS thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8130501&postcount=98
Bluebugging is facilitated by physical contact (called pairing) between the cell phone and the device designed for this purpose. Social engineering (or "human engineering") refers to the sometimes dishonest persuasion methods used to gain access to information or a device.
Source: "Bluetooth Devices Easily Hacked"
http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bluetooth-devices-easily-hacked-20071023
For example, if meditation group leaders demanded that participants in a 10-day meditation session turn in all their cell phones, laptops and cameras to the leadership for "safe keeping," and then bluebugged all the participants' electronics, we would refer to that method as an instance of Social or Human Engineering.
Source: "Bluetooth Devices Easily Hacked"
http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bluetooth-devices-easily-hacked-20071023
For example, if meditation group leaders demanded that participants in a 10-day meditation session turn in all their cell phones, laptops and cameras to the leadership for "safe keeping," and then bluebugged all the participants' electronics, we would refer to that method as an instance of Social or Human Engineering.
Souflatika
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the last message I received from Zisimos, I asked him about his plans to travel to base camp and also discussed whether he still wanted to do a course with me over in Greece.
"yes im heading there the day after tomorrow. most people just fly there but im going to take a bus as far as the road goes then hike a week more from there - its up and down so many hills that you've already scaled the equivalent height of everest from sea level by the time you get there.
only problem is, the route im doing is supposed to take 32 days, but i will only have 25 before my flight home, so i'll need to do it speedy gonzales.
i emailed the organiser again about the course - its supposed to be for the whole of July but they havent announced anything yet so we'll just have to wait and see, i'll let you know when i hear something.
how's the greek classes coming along? any other news?"
Please don't give up on this. I don't want my brother to become just another missing person.
"yes im heading there the day after tomorrow. most people just fly there but im going to take a bus as far as the road goes then hike a week more from there - its up and down so many hills that you've already scaled the equivalent height of everest from sea level by the time you get there.
only problem is, the route im doing is supposed to take 32 days, but i will only have 25 before my flight home, so i'll need to do it speedy gonzales.
i emailed the organiser again about the course - its supposed to be for the whole of July but they havent announced anything yet so we'll just have to wait and see, i'll let you know when i hear something.
how's the greek classes coming along? any other news?"
Please don't give up on this. I don't want my brother to become just another missing person.
Thank you for your post. We haven't given up. More than 3700 hits for this thread shows that there is strong interest in this case. Unfortunately information is so limited.
If ZS started counting the days from the morning of April 19, then May 13 would be the 25th day. He would have had one day to say goodbye to friends, and then catch his plane.
Presumed Time Table:
April 18: Traveled to Jiri from Katmandu via bus.
April 19 – 23: 5-day hike from Jiri to Namche Bazaar
April 23: Entered Sagarmatha National Park.
April 24: Left Hotel Tibet in the morning leaving certain valuables
April 27: Called ST.
Source regarding phone call to ST:
http://202.166.193.41/2012/06/21/capital/british-national-missing-from-namche/355905.htmlv
May 15: Missing from plane which arrived in Manchester UK
ZS vanished on the morning of April 24. He has not been reported seen by anyone at all since he left the Hotel Tibet.
ZS: “only problem is, the route im doing is supposed to take 32 days, but i will only have 25 before my flight home, so i'll need to do it speedy gonzales.”
Therefore, ZS was not intending to veer off in search of any obscure site; but rather his plan was to take the most direct possible path to Everest Base Camp.
But note the comment from Michael in Germany:
“[on this trek] it is almost impossible to walk longer than 30 minutes without meeting another human being now if you stick to the well-trodden paths.”
Source: http://searchingforzisimos.com/
Even if ZS became ill due to the altitude, as long as he remained on the main trails, he would most likely have been found and helped by other hikers.
If ZS were actually hiking in the Khumbu region from the morning of April 24 until he made the phone call to his friend ST on April 27, how is it that no one remembered seeing him? No one recalled his ordering a meal, or arranging a room for the night at a teahouse, or greeting them on the trail, or borrowing their satellite phone.
Therefore, in my opinion, the possibility that ZS was not in the Khumbu, but rather had taken a helicopter trip to some other location of similar altitude should be considered.
A helicopter trip would also have solved his time problem. Let’s say that perhaps the meditation group or similar organization persuaded ZS to visit a mountain retreat for a 3-day session, offering to pick him up at the helipad in Syangboche near Namche Bazaar and leave him off at Everest Base Camp. Then, of course, the return helicopter never came.
The group may have allowed him to make a call to ST on the 27th April only to make sure that ST would not become alarmed and notify the police right away.
In the call, ZS mentioned his belongings left behind because he was now suspicious that the group might demand some type of ransom from his friends, and he wanted ST to know that he had at least a few hundred dollars worth of his own potential financial resource available at the hotel.
The group’s motive may not have been money per se; spreading out all over the English-speaking world, they may have need for someone who could teach them English, or provide assistance with advertising and other written media.
But please don’t take the above explanation as anything more than just a theory.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/vipassana-meditation-center-shelburne-falls
Same organzation from which ZS took 10-day course:
http://www.dhara.dhamma.org/ns/
The Goenka Vipassana organization uses the second-level domain name: dhamma
Yelp Review of the Massachusetts branch of Dhamma
by S.B. of Manhattan
4/24/2012
To all you suspicious Westerners . In other words, if we are skeptical of the behavior of this organzation, we are racists.
Dhamma does protest too much.
Words cannot describe
I can't believe this is listed on Yelp. Adorable!!
You must go
Not American phraseology: in the US, children are adorable; we dont use the word outside of that context very much. We don't call ourselves "Westerners" on our own soil, unless we mean that we are from our West. Also, the exaggeration sounds immature. Of course, many foreigners reside in NYC, and certainly they may attend these courses; but apparently the local people had no positive comment about this facility.
Same organzation from which ZS took 10-day course:
http://www.dhara.dhamma.org/ns/
The Goenka Vipassana organization uses the second-level domain name: dhamma
Yelp Review of the Massachusetts branch of Dhamma
by S.B. of Manhattan
4/24/2012
To all you suspicious Westerners . In other words, if we are skeptical of the behavior of this organzation, we are racists.
Dhamma does protest too much.
Words cannot describe
I can't believe this is listed on Yelp. Adorable!!
You must go
Not American phraseology: in the US, children are adorable; we dont use the word outside of that context very much. We don't call ourselves "Westerners" on our own soil, unless we mean that we are from our West. Also, the exaggeration sounds immature. Of course, many foreigners reside in NYC, and certainly they may attend these courses; but apparently the local people had no positive comment about this facility.
The behavior of Dhamma Organization is suspicious in that they reportedly refused to assist or even express any sympathy with friends who were searching for your brother. Assuming that they still have not provided you with any and all information which could possibly be relevant to his disappearance, you may have legal recourse.
One suggestion: consult a US attorney who specializes in criminal law. In US courts, if there is insufficient evidence for criminal charges, often a civil suit can be brought against an organization on grounds such as (for example)causing you and your family extreme mental strain and emotional trauma.
The Internal Revenue Service has classified Dhamma Organization as 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization which means that it is a "public charity." Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)
Tax statements for Northwestern US branch available here:
http://www.kunja.dhamma.org/#
Quote from the above link:
These documents are public, and contain some interesting information about the groups' sponsors.
Also, in Massachusetts, they own a huge tract of land:
http://www.dhara.dhamma.org/ns/about1_history.shtml
Quote from the above link:
Most likely as an "educational facility" they pay no property taxes on this land whatsoever.
Of course, advice of counsel is necessary, but possibly Dhamma Organization could lose its US tax-exempt status if they refuse to cooperate with the investigation.
http://www.dhamma.org/en/qanda.shtml
Quotes from the above link:
These statements reflect a suspicious pattern: students put under extreme pressure to stay, and even forced to stay from the ninth to the tenth day.
Quotes from the above link:
These statements reflect a suspicious pattern: students put under extreme pressure to stay, and even forced to stay from the ninth to the tenth day.
Bonnie Blue
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Have you tried to contact any of this years expedition leaders? It might be a shot in the dark but perhaps they could answer questions about the area and the route your brother was taking.
I follow this expedition every year. (online)
http://himalayanexperience.com/contact
It is ran by Russell Brice and he has been going to the area for years.
If a sect asserts that modern technology (like cell phones, cameras & taping equipment) is "ritually unclean," then certainly they have every right to do so. Most of us agree with the concept of freedom of religion.
But the problem with Dhamma Organization is that its own use of technology is actually quite sophisticated.
How does one apply for the 10-day beginning course?
First, one must complete this application which requires quite a lot of personal information:
http://courses.dhamma.org/en/docs/forms/appform-en.pdf
Not to worry about your privacy though:
http://courses.dhamma.org/en-US/schedules/schdhara
Quote from the above link:
Of course, no guarantee that the application will not be scanned, and loaded up on the internet anyway, is offered.
Link: http://courses.dhamma.org/en-US/schedules/schdhara#os
Old Student courses can run up to 45 days.
Note: This link may not have been intended to be accessible by "non-Old-Students," so the text which follows may quickly disappear.
That is, they are allowed to work for free.
Note that if you go to this link:
http://www.dhamma.org/
and, then click on the link for "Old Students," you will get this message: The server www.dhamma.org at Old Student Web Site requires a username and password.
Then, if you type in a fake user ID & password:
No matter where in the world the beginning student takes the 10-day introductory course, this international organization can use its database to verify completion of this course.
The high-tech is okay for the leadership; but for the students we have this policy:
http://www.dhamma.org/en/code.shtml
Note: As we have discussed previously, the items which ZS left at the hotel (note paper, cell phone, etc.) are consistent with the items banned from Dhamma Meditation courses.
An interesting question is whether records of other missing persons who had expressed strong interest in Himalayan hiking, spirituality and culture are also located in this database: for example, Aubrey Sacco, Gareth Koch, and Morgan Harrington (who had planned to go hiking in Tibet with one of her teachers before she was murdered in Charlottesville, Virginia).
But the problem with Dhamma Organization is that its own use of technology is actually quite sophisticated.
How does one apply for the 10-day beginning course?
First, one must complete this application which requires quite a lot of personal information:
http://courses.dhamma.org/en/docs/forms/appform-en.pdf
Not to worry about your privacy though:
http://courses.dhamma.org/en-US/schedules/schdhara
Quote from the above link:
Of course, no guarantee that the application will not be scanned, and loaded up on the internet anyway, is offered.
Link: http://courses.dhamma.org/en-US/schedules/schdhara#os
Old Student courses can run up to 45 days.
Note: This link may not have been intended to be accessible by "non-Old-Students," so the text which follows may quickly disappear.
That is, they are allowed to work for free.
Note that if you go to this link:
http://www.dhamma.org/
and, then click on the link for "Old Students," you will get this message: The server www.dhamma.org at Old Student Web Site requires a username and password.
Then, if you type in a fake user ID & password:
No matter where in the world the beginning student takes the 10-day introductory course, this international organization can use its database to verify completion of this course.
The high-tech is okay for the leadership; but for the students we have this policy:
http://www.dhamma.org/en/code.shtml
Note: As we have discussed previously, the items which ZS left at the hotel (note paper, cell phone, etc.) are consistent with the items banned from Dhamma Meditation courses.
An interesting question is whether records of other missing persons who had expressed strong interest in Himalayan hiking, spirituality and culture are also located in this database: for example, Aubrey Sacco, Gareth Koch, and Morgan Harrington (who had planned to go hiking in Tibet with one of her teachers before she was murdered in Charlottesville, Virginia).
Souflatika
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Apologies, I was hoping I would receive a notification if anyone had replied. Just in case this hasn't been clarified, the last evidence we have of Zisimos is an email he sent to the Ford volunteer project to ask for his money back as he wasn't happy with the project and was hoping for something a bit more spiritual (he was just painting the monastery). That was on 24th April. His phone had been left at Hotel Tibet. There was an outgoing call on his phone on 27th April to Siddartha Thapa, but this call was not registered on Siddartha's phone and as we found the phone at the hotel, we presume the call wasn't made by Zisimos. Also, he took money out from his account on April 17th.
Where are we up to now, are we suggesting that the meditation centres are some sort of cult? If anyone would like to know anything/have anything clarified, please just ask
Where are we up to now, are we suggesting that the meditation centres are some sort of cult? If anyone would like to know anything/have anything clarified, please just ask
Apologies, I was hoping I would receive a notification if anyone had replied. Just in case this hasn't been clarified, the last evidence we have of Zisimos is an email he sent to the Ford volunteer project to ask for his money back as he wasn't happy with the project and was hoping for something a bit more spiritual (he was just painting the monastery). That was on 24th April. His phone had been left at Hotel Tibet. There was an outgoing call on his phone on 27th April to Siddartha Thapa, but this call was not registered on Siddartha's phone and as we found the phone at the hotel, we presume the call wasn't made by Zisimos. Also, he took money out from his account on April 17th.
Where are we up to now, are we suggesting that the meditation centres are some sort of cult? If anyone would like to know anything/have anything clarified, please just ask
Re-post of the E-Kantipur article:
Of course, sometimes reporters make errors on details, but did ST actually have a conversation with ZS on the 27th?
The comment about "glacial pace" seems somewhat odd. Of course, maybe it's a reflection of some colloquial expression in Nepal.