Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[matou]

Wasn't Avery busy doing legal stuff in the days before Teresa went missing? He would have been in and out of the property quite a bit I would think. And the car with branches and wooden boards on it was completely ridiculous.

 

[Itsmevkb]

I do not understand your reluctance to watch the Netflix documentary.

That poor woman begged for her life. Can you even imagine being bound to a bed, raped and assuming you're going to die a horrible death and then someone shows up and for just a moment you think perhaps you are saved? Then, the person she thought might save her rapes her as well and helps to murder her. Sorry, but that just really gets to me.

And, I guess it gets to me because I believe he did kill her. I believe he killed her and dragged his teenage nephew into it which is another part of the story I find highly disturbing. But for Steven, I don't believe Brendan would have committed such a horrendous crime and what a waste of such a young life. Reading his confession just makes me so sad, for both Teresa and him.

Maybe because I can remember all this happening and having it all happen near me I just feel "closer" to this whole case than others but I guess this just isn't necessarily what I want on my mind at night.

 

[Tiger09]

The car wasn't crushed but it was still on their property... How did no one notice it being planted?

Probably because the property is really really huge is my guess.



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[Ava Adore]

The RAV 4 was found on the Avery property...if it were planted...how did no one notice, or even offer a possibility as to how it got there...? Vehicles make noise...people concealing vehicles with other vehicle parts make noise or otherwise make their presence known...

Have you seen how large the salvage yard was? I think they said it was four acres. And the car was found at the edge, furthest away from their trailers.

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[Ava Adore]

I don't know the details yet of her case. There was no blood? Maybe she was taken to a funeral home where they remove blood from the body and then she was cremated. Did LE have friends at the funeral parlor? Sorry if this idea sounds ridiculous. I still need to get through all of the episodes and the details of the cases in general.

I think they meant her blood was not found in his house, his garage, anywhere. They stated that they think he stabbed her in his bedroom, but no blood was found on his mattress, carpet, anywhere. None of her DNA was found on his property.

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[Ava Adore]

That poor woman begged for her life. Can you even imagine being bound to a bed, raped and assuming you're going to die a horrible death and then someone shows up and for just a moment you think perhaps you are saved? Then, the person she thought might save her rapes her as well and helps to murder her. Sorry, but that just really gets to me.

And, I guess it gets to me because I believe he did kill her. I believe he killed her and dragged his teenage nephew into it which is another part of the story I find highly disturbing. But for Steven, I don't believe Brendan would have committed such a horrendous crime and what a waste of such a young life. Reading his confession just makes me so sad, for both Teresa and him.

Maybe because I can remember all this happening and having it all happen near me I just feel "closer" to this whole case than others but I guess this just isn't necessarily what I want on my mind at night.

I totally understand that, but can you imagine if someone else killed her and is walking free right now? They never found her blood or DNA or anything even consistent with her being tied or raped or stabbed in his house. Not a drop of blood, nothing. That is bizarre to me.

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[matou]

I think they meant her blood was not found in his house, his garage, anywhere. They stated that they think he stabbed her in his bedroom, but no blood was found on his mattress, carpet, anywhere. None of her DNA was found on his property.

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No blood, than I call BS. He can't be that good to clean up so well. But HIS blood is in her car and her keys on his floor? After it was searched once before? Ridiculous.

 

[matou]

If she was found as cremains than she could have been cremated at an actual crematorium somewhere. JMO

 

[Tracey4AU]

I binge-watched this entire series yesterday thanks to you guys starting a thread about it. Once I started, I couldn't stop. I wasn't familiar with the case before this.

As some of you, I wondered what angle this documentary was made from, knowing there usually is one, and based strictly on this series, I was horrified. One of Avery's attorneys made a statement toward the end like (not a direct quote) "most of us won't ever commit a crime, but any of us could be accused of one." That is a terrifying thought after watching this.

Also, I have a brother that is "special needs" and all I could think of watching the Brendan fiasco was that something like this could totally happen to him. Like someone else already mentioned, when he asked if he was going to make it back to school by 6th period that day, my heart broke. He just confessed to a part in several horrific acts and he thinks he's going back to school....that day even!

It may have just been the way they were portrayed, but I thought the LE in that county and the prosecuting attorney were extremely shady. It's not speculation to say two of the investigators lied on the stand. They did. That alone makes me suspicious of the whole thing. And what about the recorded phone call from one officer to dispatch where he's asking her to run a tag...TERESA's tag...before her vehicle was "found". That made my BS meter go off the charts when he denied he was looking at the vehicle at the time. What other explanation IS there? He didn't offer one.

The thing that perplexes me the most, is IF Avery didn't kill Teresa, and LE was framing him...what does that mean? Obviously, it can't just be sheer coincidence that she ends up missing after being on the property, and then LE are just like..."Oh yeah! This is perfect! Conveniently, a woman is reported missing whose last known sighting was on the Avery property! We can use this to our advantage! Let's frame him!" Know what I mean?

Whatever the truth is, it was an excellent documentary, from the way it was visually done to the story-telling. I would love to see more like it!

 

[MaxManning]

I binge-watched this entire series yesterday thanks to you guys starting a thread about it. Once I started, I couldn't stop. I wasn't familiar with the case before this.

As some of you, I wondered what angle this documentary was made from, knowing there usually is one, and based strictly on this series, I was horrified. One of Avery's attorneys made a statement toward the end like (not a direct quote) "most of us won't ever commit a crime, but any of us could be accused of one." That is a terrifying thought after watching this.

Also, I have a brother that is "special needs" and all I could think of watching the Brendan fiasco was that something like this could totally happen to him. Like someone else already mentioned, when he asked if he was going to make it back to school by 6th period that day, my heart broke. He just confessed to a part in several horrific acts and he thinks he's going back to school....that day even!

It may have just been the way they were portrayed, but I thought the LE in that county and the prosecuting attorney were extremely shady. It's not speculation to say two of the investigators lied on the stand. They did. That alone makes me suspicious of the whole thing. And what about the recorded phone call from one officer to dispatch where he's asking her to run a tag...TERESA's tag...before her vehicle was "found". That made my BS meter go off the charts when he denied he was looking at the vehicle at the time. What other explanation IS there? He didn't offer one.

The thing that perplexes me the most, is IF Avery didn't kill Teresa, and LE was framing him...what does that mean? Obviously, it can't just be sheer coincidence that she ends up missing after being on the property, and then LE are just like..."Oh yeah! This is perfect! Conveniently, a woman is reported missing whose last known sighting was on the Avery property! We can use this to our advantage! Let's frame him!" Know what I mean?

Whatever the truth is, it was an excellent documentary, from the way it was visually done to the story-telling. I would love to see more like it!

Just got done watching the series, bar the last two which I was no longer in a mood to do anything but skim through, but ^^^^^^^ this exactly.

I am interested in hearing more from the prosecution side, if there is any, because I remember watching Paradise Lost and then researching that some online and feeling as if some important evidence wasn't even mentioned in the documentaries. I understand why it would be this way as the larger point in my feelings after this documentary was that if anyone other than a millionaire was ever in this situation, you might as well accept you have lost before it has begun. I even felt as if the judge was being unfair at times.

I think the evidence of removing Brendan from school and interrogating him without the parent's consent alone is enough for me to give great pause as a juror about his statement. There are also so many areas that at least needed to be investigate, and seemingly weren't. As with Paradise Lost, those reasons were sometimes not discussed in the investigation, but were sometimes at least more reasonable than no reasoning via the prosecution/judge provided by the documentary.

Gonna read through this thread and any information I can find about the case. The blood part is also very troubling to me, as I just don't see how there was none in the house or the garage. Also no DNA from the victim on that key. Those are mammoth issues that as a juror, I'd at least want to hear WHY the defense believed that to be true. The only line I heard was from one guy saying "They had 5 days to clean up". However, I think in that case with a cement floor, carpeting etc, you are going to find some level of "cleaning up" to corroborate that, right ? Maybe there was, and not mentioned in the documentary ? But if not, it's a big hole in the case imo.

The defense/documentary gave minimal evidence about alternative killers, such as roommate/ex-boyfriend/Bobby(anyone?)/and the other guy that went hunting. I am interested in hearing if the ex-boyfriend and roommate had iron clad alibis etc, but we don't hear any of that. The missing cell phone messages. Yes, I want to hear how that gets explained by the prosecution. did it ?

 

[MaxManning]

I've finished the series, and then I went to read the thread about it here. Didn't read the whole thing, but there were definitely things left out of the documentary like the fact that he purchased restraints just before the murder and he scheduled the appointment with Teresa using another name. (And that she had previously expressed discomfort going to the Avery residence.)

Most problematic for me with regard to whether or not these two committed this crime is the lack of Teresa's DNA anywhere on the property or even on her own car key. These two don't seem smart enough to have cleaned up so well as to leave no trace evidence.

See... This is what I was talking about. I definitely would want to know about the restraints purchase and any appointment made with another name, and any discomfort.

It just lessens my trust in the integrity of the documentary. Certainly that evidence is relevant and I'd want to hear what the defense says. ugh.. Paradise Lost all over again. I am left feeling like I've been manipulated to some degree, and that's not a good feeling :/

 

[MaxManning]

For instance -- just looking over the original case thread here at Websleuths, and there is reference made to Brendan's mother allegedly having asked Brendan about stains on his jeans, which Brendan then supposedly claimed had come from helping Steve Avery bleach the garage floor. IIRC this allegation is not mentioned in the MaM series.

Indeed the allegation is part of the official criminal complaint against Brendan Dassey.

ugh... yeah, this is again what I feared. I feel manipulated not being told things like this and at least hearing from Brendan and the mother's mouth about this then and now.

 

[MaxManning]

The car wasn't crushed but it was still on their property... How did no one notice it being planted?

I thought a few people had mentioned his -- Tammy was mentioned in Steve Avery's interrogation as bringing up this aspect. Also, I could have sworn that chuck or one of the brother's mentioned seeing a vehicle approaching one night, and they never brought that up again. The moved bones theory, seems to point towards possibly Bobby ? or Chuck even ? or that one other guy, can't remember his name right now, that gave testimony against Steven and later stated his dislike for him ?

But even regardless of all that, it doesn't seem very implausible to me that someone could have put that car there as it was on the edge of the property and I'll agree that it almost seems as if it was placed to be found. It seems like people moved freely onto and off the property on a regular day in vehicles, so it doesn't seem too strange to me that it would go unnoticed. But the documentary not mentioning Avery's possible deception in whether Terry was there or not that day, that's troubling if true.

Moved bones. Does anyone have any idea how to explain this ? It's one area that I felt the documentary might have left out some details again, because I want to hear how the defense explains this. Did they and I missed it somehow ?

 

[MaxManning]

Alright, gonna go research this some to get answers maybe to issues like :

Were the restraints found and purchased by Avery? -- doesn't get mentioned in the documentary.

Was there evidence of the garage or home being cleaned ? via brendan/mother as well as some kind of scientific test on the surfaces.

What was teresa's impression of Steve Avery ? Someone commented that she had been weary of him, doc doesn't mention this. I want to know why she was weary. What was the basis ?

Roomate and ex-boyfriend -- any alibis ? Documentary suggests no investigation took place regarding them. Was there ? Did the defense investigate that ? What did they find ?

Rav 4 plate number - How did defense explain the call for the plate number ? We see how the defense painted it, but we don't hear defense's explanation.

Who were the missing cell phone messages from ? Who was this mystery man ? Is it possible this was explained , but documentary didn't feel the need to include that ?

I have to admit by 2-3 episodes in, I was wrapped all around the defense's finger and yelling at the TV. But in my head I was thinking, "can't wait to hear what the prosecution has to say about all this" , and in so many cases I never heard anything but the initial framing of the aspect by the defense. That troubles me at the moment.

 

[MaxManning]

"Stephen is not the only member of his family to have had trouble with the law. His older brother Chuck, 51, pled guilty to disorderly conduct in 1998 and ultimately served 60 days in jail. In 1999 Chuck Avery’s former wife accused him of sexual assault and attempting to strangle her with a telephone cord. The charge was dismissed.
Stephen’s younger brother Earl, 35, pleaded no contest to battery and sexual assault charges in 1992, stemming from an attack on his wife. He received 18 months probation.
The brothers all work for Avery Auto Salvage." -- http://truecrimecases.blogspot.com/2012/08/steven-avery.html

I find it troubling that we didn't hear about this in the documentary. Chuck ? Earl ?


Why ? Seems realistic to me that one of these two could have potentially did this and fully realized that Steven would be the likely suspect.


I know these two aren't on trial, but in my opinion a documentary that doesn't disclose this might have reason to not disclose this. Makes more sense in regards to those who had bad impression of the Avery's in general. If both brothers had been involved in sexual assault, who wouldn't evaluate that ? Not saying it proves anything, but exclusion of this kind of information in a documentary where you are including things that weren't allowed in court either... It makes the documentary feel manipulative.

 

[MaxManning]

Another question I have is ,where were the license plates found ?

I see it noted that the car was found on the lot without license plates, but then in the trial we see one of the license plates. Was the license plate checked for DNA and prints ? I know someone could have had on gloves when removing it, but all questions worth hearing answers for.

 

[MaxManning]

I have alot of questions and scrutiny for this documentary because I feel somewhat manipulated learning just a few more key details about the case, that the documentary failed to even acknowledge.

However, I will say that there is significant enough reason to scrutinize the blood evidence and discovery. The vial with a needle hole in the top. We need to hear how prosecution explained that. Maybe there are plausible reasons as to how that could have happened ?

Small town law enforcement corruption is not at all something that I think is preposterous to at least investigate. Who would investigate such a thing ? What is the process by which an investigation into evidence tampering could be initiated ?

Same guy finding all key blood evidence and having access to the blood in a vial with a suspicious needle hole in the top, would seem to be enough for someone like myself to entertain the idea that it has merit. If that's not enough to prompt an investigation, what exactly is the threshold ? I'm baffled to the point where I am suspicious that there must be some explanation, the documentary doesn't include.

Anyone know ?

 

[Itsmevkb]

I haven't watched the documentary but to try and answer at least a few things brought up:

I believe the license plate was found inside another vehicle that was on the salvage lot.

Police found Halbach’s crumpled license plates in a scrapped car down the road from Avery’s trailer

Yes, Steven had purchased the restraints and told police that he had because he wanted to try out some new things with his fiance.

And the handcuffs and leg irons? “I bought them,” Avery said. “I wanted to try out something different with Jodi.”

As for Teresa, I remember reading that in the past when she'd gone there for work, Steven had opened the door with only a towel on. I can see that making her uncomfortable. If I remember correctly too, he used his sister's name when calling and asking specifically for her

Steven Avery called Auto Trader magazine to schedule an appointment with a photographer. “Send the girl who was out here be-fore,” he told the magazine, using his sister’s first initial and last name – “B. Janda.”

She knocked on his front door, perhaps -remembering that on past trips to the junkyard, Avery had come to the door wearing only a towel.

I just don't see this as being a set-up. For it to be we'd have to assume that the police somehow figured out that Teresa was going to be there, they decided to murder and burn her and then they made it back to the property to plant her car, the plates, blood, her bones, cell phone, camera, etc. And then, they just got unbelievably lucky in finding Brendan who just happened to be there cleaning the garage with bleach with his uncle and also just happened to be easily manipulated into confessing to a crime that not only he didn't commit but wasn't even present for. To me, it's more likely that Steven figured his past wrongful conviction gave him the perfect excuse/cover to commit more crimes (he was a convicted felon prior to his wrongful conviction.) If attention came his way he could always claim that he was being set up and/or that he was once again being wrongfully accused and convicted.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Marking my spot to find thread again after I finish watching all 10. I am starting Episode 5 and am dumb founded. I do want to go thru the thread too. To get more of a complete picture but oh my gosh so far. Anywho .. Thanks KateB for giving me the link to get here :seeya:

 

[Brightbird]

See... This is what I was talking about. I definitely would want to know about the restraints purchase and any appointment made with another name, and any discomfort.

It just lessens my trust in the integrity of the documentary. Certainly that evidence is relevant and I'd want to hear what the defense says. ugh.. Paradise Lost all over again. I am left feeling like I've been manipulated to some degree, and that's not a good feeling :/

I found that feeling of manipulation fascinating. Whichever way you cut it, we were being manipulated by someone. Was Steven Avery manipulating everyone? Was an unknown killer manipulating everyone? Was the prosecution? Did those two shady officers have the prosecution fooled? Did those officers unwittingly get a false confession and fool themselves? Were the documentary makers manipulating us? There are so many layers, sometimes I felt like this had to be a hoax. Awesome documentary.