news on JBR's coroner
- Thread starter ellen13
- Start date
Leann,narlacat said:
I'm with Narla. I'm in shock!! Dear God, help us. You'd think they would
have some strict regulations on this. I'm thinking at this point that I don't want to go to a funeral home or be embalmed. I want to go straight from the morgue to the casket to the ground. End of story!! Can I have that done?
Ellen13:doh:
tipper
Former Member
Each state has its own regulations. Your best bet would be to go in and set it up ahead of time.ellen13 said:
leann coburn
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If interested, just tell the funeral home that you desire the same services normally reserved for devout jews. You will be washed off under a sheet in a dignified manner. You can be placed in any clothing of your choosing. You will not be placed in a grave liner or "vault". A special wooden casket will be used. It is built without metal or decoration of any kind. It is dovetailed and glued on the corners. When placed directly in the ground, the bottom neatly slides out and you are in contact with the ground. Dust to dust naturally. You do not have to be embalmed in any state in this country unless you plan to have a drawn-out service that includes a public viewing. Then they will use "health" concerns to push for embalming. There is NO law that requires embalming except for some cases of shipping or of crutzfeld-jacobs disease. Not even aids is an exception. The truth is that a fresh dead human body really poses no health crisis. The only reason for embalming is for display. It doesn't prevent decay or eventual decomposition and a sealed casket only ensures a messy situation when the gases build up and have no where to go. This causes the body to explode inside the casket, which is not what any of us want. So ask for the "kosher" treatment with next-day burial. And graveside services. As a funeral veteran, I considered all of the options for myself and my loved ones. This is my decision for me and my husband's decision for him.
A mausoleum would have been my other choice until I learned the disgusting secrets of this choice. You must be embalmed to be placed in a mausoleum crypt. After the family leaves, the casket is pulled back out later, usually that night. The casket is wrapped in what is called a "disaster pack" which consists of an absorbent bottom material and plastic wrap. There is also a slight downward trough in the back of each crypt that empties outside or into the ground. This is for the drainage of fluid. In short, after a short period of time, the gases in the casket once again have no where to go and the body will explode in the casket. We would go into the mausoleum early in the morning and check for fluid dripping down the front of the marble. We would always find some. That's what collects in the carpet in front of the crypts that attracts those little gnats (grave gnats) that will never go away. If embalming was really effective, then these bugs would die if they fed from the fluid. Yet they thrive. At night, bright bright lights are used to attract them into a box that is brought out. It looks like a giant bug zapper. The battle never ends. And large amounts of you just flow out the pipe in the back of the crypt until you finally become dried out. And that's the real truth. Never ever touch the carpet in a mausoleum or sit to pray on the floor. Every now and then, the morning would reveal a crypt cover blown completely off of a grave slot.
My aussie friend, your country is famous for the fact that almost all of the funeral workers there are women. It fascinates me. I'm hoping that this tradition shows more respect for the deceased. I have been told that this is the case there and that they are referred to as "the ladies in white" or something very much like that. America has the most bizarre and ridiculous customs of the civilized world. And it is an industry that uses pressure at a most vulnerable time to practically force people to conform. To dot every I and to cross every T. My advice is to buy your own wooden casket wholesale way ahead of time (assuming that you would know...lol) and find a cemetery that does not require a grave liner or vault. Most older cemeteries do not require one, but most new ones do because it makes it so much easier to mow and maintain because the graves never settle or have any natural differences occur over time. Most of America's beautiful old cemeteries are so beautiful because of the gently rolling natural areas that have occured with time because of this settling. But now the focus is on cost-cutting when it comes to maintanance, which also dictates that many cemeteries will only allow flat stones because they can mow around them. Let's face it, they are ugly and stark.
People with a heart usually have to leave this line of work. You begin to wonder if it is right to take people's money for things that don't exist. Don't get embalmed. It's plastic surgery for the dead. If you want it, do it now while you can enjoy it. Embalming does not improve the decomp situation. It only preserves the body for visitation, and many times doesn't even hold up well through this. Every day, we checked for ooze and numerous other offensive problems. With families spread out, this is becoming very common. We weren't even allowed (by LAW) to say that embalming preserved a human body. When asked, we were told to say "it will last just as long as you are here to think about it". That alone should get you shut down.
A friend will help you move, but a real friend will help you move the bodies. I know that some of this is disgusting, but people have a right to know that they are being swindled by major funeral homes that probably bought your local "hometown" funeral home too. They just don't advertise it and they kept the previous owner's well-known name on everything and no one knows the difference. But they treat a deceased person like a giant k-mart blue light special, taking from the bereaved and whatever they can from the departed. The next worse things besides body part stealing? Say an old couple has had a prepaid preplanned funeral written up for 20 years. Maybe they are childless or outlived everyone. Perfect. When the second one dies and no one is there to see, they put them in a pressed board box instead of the nice casket that was picked out. And the whole time, they have been getting rich off of the interest from these good peoples' money. Just the tip of the iceberg. Be very careful and don't be afraid to order the "kosher" way of no embalming and the wooden casket with sliding bottom. Then they know not to bother you because you've done your research and know the score. They're not going to lunch on me or my loved ones!
Sorry to offend but people need to know and many of us veterans are trying to spread the word. Maybe we feel guilty having knowledge that everyone has the right to have. I think that's it wrong to know something like this and not share it with all I can share it with. From the first day in mortuary school, you learn it's about the bottom line, not anything else. It helps if you are a sociopath who doesn't feel the pain of others.
Peace to you all and inform yourselves. Sorry for the length of this.
mho
A mausoleum would have been my other choice until I learned the disgusting secrets of this choice. You must be embalmed to be placed in a mausoleum crypt. After the family leaves, the casket is pulled back out later, usually that night. The casket is wrapped in what is called a "disaster pack" which consists of an absorbent bottom material and plastic wrap. There is also a slight downward trough in the back of each crypt that empties outside or into the ground. This is for the drainage of fluid. In short, after a short period of time, the gases in the casket once again have no where to go and the body will explode in the casket. We would go into the mausoleum early in the morning and check for fluid dripping down the front of the marble. We would always find some. That's what collects in the carpet in front of the crypts that attracts those little gnats (grave gnats) that will never go away. If embalming was really effective, then these bugs would die if they fed from the fluid. Yet they thrive. At night, bright bright lights are used to attract them into a box that is brought out. It looks like a giant bug zapper. The battle never ends. And large amounts of you just flow out the pipe in the back of the crypt until you finally become dried out. And that's the real truth. Never ever touch the carpet in a mausoleum or sit to pray on the floor. Every now and then, the morning would reveal a crypt cover blown completely off of a grave slot.
My aussie friend, your country is famous for the fact that almost all of the funeral workers there are women. It fascinates me. I'm hoping that this tradition shows more respect for the deceased. I have been told that this is the case there and that they are referred to as "the ladies in white" or something very much like that. America has the most bizarre and ridiculous customs of the civilized world. And it is an industry that uses pressure at a most vulnerable time to practically force people to conform. To dot every I and to cross every T. My advice is to buy your own wooden casket wholesale way ahead of time (assuming that you would know...lol) and find a cemetery that does not require a grave liner or vault. Most older cemeteries do not require one, but most new ones do because it makes it so much easier to mow and maintain because the graves never settle or have any natural differences occur over time. Most of America's beautiful old cemeteries are so beautiful because of the gently rolling natural areas that have occured with time because of this settling. But now the focus is on cost-cutting when it comes to maintanance, which also dictates that many cemeteries will only allow flat stones because they can mow around them. Let's face it, they are ugly and stark.
People with a heart usually have to leave this line of work. You begin to wonder if it is right to take people's money for things that don't exist. Don't get embalmed. It's plastic surgery for the dead. If you want it, do it now while you can enjoy it. Embalming does not improve the decomp situation. It only preserves the body for visitation, and many times doesn't even hold up well through this. Every day, we checked for ooze and numerous other offensive problems. With families spread out, this is becoming very common. We weren't even allowed (by LAW) to say that embalming preserved a human body. When asked, we were told to say "it will last just as long as you are here to think about it". That alone should get you shut down.
A friend will help you move, but a real friend will help you move the bodies. I know that some of this is disgusting, but people have a right to know that they are being swindled by major funeral homes that probably bought your local "hometown" funeral home too. They just don't advertise it and they kept the previous owner's well-known name on everything and no one knows the difference. But they treat a deceased person like a giant k-mart blue light special, taking from the bereaved and whatever they can from the departed. The next worse things besides body part stealing? Say an old couple has had a prepaid preplanned funeral written up for 20 years. Maybe they are childless or outlived everyone. Perfect. When the second one dies and no one is there to see, they put them in a pressed board box instead of the nice casket that was picked out. And the whole time, they have been getting rich off of the interest from these good peoples' money. Just the tip of the iceberg. Be very careful and don't be afraid to order the "kosher" way of no embalming and the wooden casket with sliding bottom. Then they know not to bother you because you've done your research and know the score. They're not going to lunch on me or my loved ones!
Sorry to offend but people need to know and many of us veterans are trying to spread the word. Maybe we feel guilty having knowledge that everyone has the right to have. I think that's it wrong to know something like this and not share it with all I can share it with. From the first day in mortuary school, you learn it's about the bottom line, not anything else. It helps if you are a sociopath who doesn't feel the pain of others.
Peace to you all and inform yourselves. Sorry for the length of this.
mho
Leann,
Thank you so much for that info! I will definitely opt for the Jewish
Kosher way of getting it done. To say the least, I have a lot of respect
for the Jewish culture and traditions. I'm good-don't need the whole Mausoleum thing, and I never wanted to be in a funeral home where people could see me. I want people to remember me and not on public display.
Is it true they break the bones before getting cremated?
EEEEE! You've totally got me thinking and I really appreciate your info
on this. Now lets say I die in one state and want to be buried in another. I'm
wondering for shipping purposes, if I have to be embalmed if I'm going
straight into the ground once my body gets there. And if you go straight into the ground, can you still have a cemetary service?
Once again, I so appreciate your info!
Ellen13
Thank you so much for that info! I will definitely opt for the Jewish
Kosher way of getting it done. To say the least, I have a lot of respect
for the Jewish culture and traditions. I'm good-don't need the whole Mausoleum thing, and I never wanted to be in a funeral home where people could see me. I want people to remember me and not on public display.
Is it true they break the bones before getting cremated?
EEEEE! You've totally got me thinking and I really appreciate your info
on this. Now lets say I die in one state and want to be buried in another. I'm
wondering for shipping purposes, if I have to be embalmed if I'm going
straight into the ground once my body gets there. And if you go straight into the ground, can you still have a cemetary service?
Once again, I so appreciate your info!
Ellen13
Jayelles
New Member
Our home town is a small town and a few of the family undertakers are still in business there. When my MIL died, we chose one of them because my husband knew the funeral director personally. She was cremated and the funeral home kept the urn for us. That was my FIL's wishes because he wanted their ashes to be scattered together when he died. He died a couple of years ago and Hubby and I went back to the same funeral home to make the arrangements. As we no longer lived in that town, the funeral director was very kind and arranged to open the office out of normal hours to accomodate us. Just after we arrived the telephone wang and as there was no-one else there to answer it, we said to him "Please answer it". He did and you can imagine our surprise when he broke down in tears. The call was to tell him that his best friend had dropped dead very suddenly. So there we were comforting the funeral director! LOL
Linda7NJ
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Please get started on the procedures for cremations! I have tried in the part to find information on the net with no luck! You are a wealth of information that I truly appreciate. Thank you for candidly talking aboyt what no one seems to want to know or talk about but ME!leann coburn said:
Nehemiah
Well-Known Member
I live in a very small rural town and the local funeral director is a multi-millionaire.
A few years ago, we had a new pastor move here from the west coast. When one of his members died, he met with the family when they went to to make the funeral arrangements. He was attempting to help the family save money, as they didn't have much, and he was asking lots of questions about caskets, etc...The funeral director called him into the hall and told him that he (funeral director) didn't tell him how to pastor his church, so he would appreciate the pastor not interfering with his (funeral) business!
Go figure.
A few years ago, we had a new pastor move here from the west coast. When one of his members died, he met with the family when they went to to make the funeral arrangements. He was attempting to help the family save money, as they didn't have much, and he was asking lots of questions about caskets, etc...The funeral director called him into the hall and told him that he (funeral director) didn't tell him how to pastor his church, so he would appreciate the pastor not interfering with his (funeral) business!
Go figure.
Thank you so much for this valuable information. I've never really believed in funerals and embalmimg and all that stuff and now I see that maybe my good instncts were at work. Now if I can just convince the rest of my family! I'm going to print out this thread and just pick out the nuggets to read to them. I don't think they could take it all, but it doesn't bother me. BTW, and this is very important. Have you ever heard of a "green earth" burial? I'm not sure if that's the right title but you probably know what I mean. Can you please give me some info on that? THanks again!
leann coburn
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The trend towards a "green earth" burial is so wonderful and sensible. There are such facilities opening nationwide. In these locales, a person is buried unembalmed in a natural area with trees and wildflowers all around. The gravestone is usually carved into a large boulder or stone and the affect is wonderful and would be a wonderful place for anyone to visit.
About cremation: fire is a very clean way to go, but it is very inexpensive. So the funeral homes would prefer not to push it unless you are already of the mind to go this way. If the process were always honest and carried out as it should be, then I would heartedly approve. In reality, it seldom is. I have seen the ashes distributed to families before the cremation has even occurred. That is just wrong, but I had to sit there and say nothing. They thought they were carrying home a loved-one's remains when they were only carrying out between 2-5 pounds of ashes, measured out of a pail according to their body weight and size. Sometimes when they get behind, they will use hooks and other devises to cremate more than one body at a time to save on the gas expenditure and on the turn-around time. When they put too many bodies in at one time, the result can often be a fire outside the chamber (in the afterburner) or the breakdown of the crematorium due to the excess buildup of body fats. Then they call the poor electricians, who have seen it all themselves. So when people are handed cherished "cremains" the body is sometimes (often) still lying uncovered in the back hall (just like at charity hospital in katrina) getting "ripe". The coolers are usually reserved for the cases to be embalmed and displayed. If you choose cremation, remember that you have the right to be present at that time. We had several Hindu clients who will make sure a family member or priest is present at the time to actually push the button to start the procedure. Do this and all will be okay.
Yes, bones are routinely broken and ligaments of the knees and others are cut to make the process easier. This is perfectly legal. See if you can google up "Lamb Funeral Home" in Pasadena. The Sconce family that ran this well thought of establishment actually stuffed their crematoriums with up to five or six bodies at a time. When they ran out of space, they opened a place called "Oscar's Ceramics" in Hesperia, Ca out in the desert. It was really a place to burn large amounts of bodies and was finally detected by the CA funeral board because of the complaints about the foul odor. Also, look what Brent Marsh did at tri-state crematory in Georgia. These two little examples will let you in on the fact that this is not uncommon.
I am only 40 but I am very aware of death, as well as of life. We shouldn't be afraid to die. But we should each do our research to make things as easy and as affordable for our families as we can. Also, we should insure that our bodies as well as those of our loved ones are treated with respect. I believe in natural decomposition.
One book everyone should read is "Death to Dust", a really large book about every aspect of this business, and it is a business. I found it in the medical section of Barnes and Noble and I know it is current and able to be ordered if out of stock. He will tell you every trade secret, and goes into much documented detail about the body and bone trade. If any pastor was told to "mind his own business" then he should lead his friends out of there. Many churches are becomming aware of this situation and are beginning to form cooperatives to service family. The catholic church is currently trying to deal directly with some funeral homes to establish fair pricing and ethical treatment for their departed.
Beware the hometown good old boy funeral director unless YOU have known him personally for a while. Then you know you can trust him/her. This is how they make a living. They tell us to be visible in our community, active in a church and high profile such as teaching bible school or coaching a team. This is actually stressed continually throughout mortuaty school as one is taught to become part of the community so as to be trusted. I'm sorry to the fair 7.5% of directors out there, but they couldn't compete or earn a good living if they weren't cutting corners. Believe me. And just ask them (call...they hate this but have to answer truthfully) if your hometown funeral home is actually owned by loewen or by service corporation international or any other large corporation. Bet your bottom dollar 99% of them are and are just keeping a nice name on the door.
Be careful out there.
just the facts and they won't mess with me because i know too much...and could prove it so easily. For instance...it's sweet, but we're not supposed to have a euthanized dog embalmed (german shepherd) and placed in a casket with a human in a public cemetery. Just a little aside for them if they are listenning...and I know the name and the plot. That will shut them down and run their name so they should ignore me.
About cremation: fire is a very clean way to go, but it is very inexpensive. So the funeral homes would prefer not to push it unless you are already of the mind to go this way. If the process were always honest and carried out as it should be, then I would heartedly approve. In reality, it seldom is. I have seen the ashes distributed to families before the cremation has even occurred. That is just wrong, but I had to sit there and say nothing. They thought they were carrying home a loved-one's remains when they were only carrying out between 2-5 pounds of ashes, measured out of a pail according to their body weight and size. Sometimes when they get behind, they will use hooks and other devises to cremate more than one body at a time to save on the gas expenditure and on the turn-around time. When they put too many bodies in at one time, the result can often be a fire outside the chamber (in the afterburner) or the breakdown of the crematorium due to the excess buildup of body fats. Then they call the poor electricians, who have seen it all themselves. So when people are handed cherished "cremains" the body is sometimes (often) still lying uncovered in the back hall (just like at charity hospital in katrina) getting "ripe". The coolers are usually reserved for the cases to be embalmed and displayed. If you choose cremation, remember that you have the right to be present at that time. We had several Hindu clients who will make sure a family member or priest is present at the time to actually push the button to start the procedure. Do this and all will be okay.
Yes, bones are routinely broken and ligaments of the knees and others are cut to make the process easier. This is perfectly legal. See if you can google up "Lamb Funeral Home" in Pasadena. The Sconce family that ran this well thought of establishment actually stuffed their crematoriums with up to five or six bodies at a time. When they ran out of space, they opened a place called "Oscar's Ceramics" in Hesperia, Ca out in the desert. It was really a place to burn large amounts of bodies and was finally detected by the CA funeral board because of the complaints about the foul odor. Also, look what Brent Marsh did at tri-state crematory in Georgia. These two little examples will let you in on the fact that this is not uncommon.
I am only 40 but I am very aware of death, as well as of life. We shouldn't be afraid to die. But we should each do our research to make things as easy and as affordable for our families as we can. Also, we should insure that our bodies as well as those of our loved ones are treated with respect. I believe in natural decomposition.
One book everyone should read is "Death to Dust", a really large book about every aspect of this business, and it is a business. I found it in the medical section of Barnes and Noble and I know it is current and able to be ordered if out of stock. He will tell you every trade secret, and goes into much documented detail about the body and bone trade. If any pastor was told to "mind his own business" then he should lead his friends out of there. Many churches are becomming aware of this situation and are beginning to form cooperatives to service family. The catholic church is currently trying to deal directly with some funeral homes to establish fair pricing and ethical treatment for their departed.
Beware the hometown good old boy funeral director unless YOU have known him personally for a while. Then you know you can trust him/her. This is how they make a living. They tell us to be visible in our community, active in a church and high profile such as teaching bible school or coaching a team. This is actually stressed continually throughout mortuaty school as one is taught to become part of the community so as to be trusted. I'm sorry to the fair 7.5% of directors out there, but they couldn't compete or earn a good living if they weren't cutting corners. Believe me. And just ask them (call...they hate this but have to answer truthfully) if your hometown funeral home is actually owned by loewen or by service corporation international or any other large corporation. Bet your bottom dollar 99% of them are and are just keeping a nice name on the door.
Be careful out there.
just the facts and they won't mess with me because i know too much...and could prove it so easily. For instance...it's sweet, but we're not supposed to have a euthanized dog embalmed (german shepherd) and placed in a casket with a human in a public cemetery. Just a little aside for them if they are listenning...and I know the name and the plot. That will shut them down and run their name so they should ignore me.
leann coburn
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And slander by definition is making a false statement about someone or a business entity. I am not commiting slander in any sense and I am able to prove such allegations. Not wanting to, but able to.
If you have an infant die or sometimes even a small child, most of these conglomerates will be more than happy to inter your child for free. Because they know you'll be coming back whenever you need funeral services. SCI would specialize in stillborn infants that might not normally be provided
services. They will make a "kind" outreach to the family after the snitches from the hospital make their daily update. It seems really nice, but it costs them next to nothing and insures family faithfulness to the funeral home in the future. Sad but true.
Seek out sensible arrangements and have it all monitored and be a difficult customer if you have to. They aren't being too nice when you look around the arrangement office and you see many signs saying "payment is expected in full before providing any services". Indeed. I believe I should be satisfied with all the services before I pay them. This makes common sense. But that isn't how it works there. So be combative and make them give you a certified price list up front for every service they offer. This is REQUIRED of them by law, as it is even if they are questioned about the price of certain funeral goods by order number over the phone. Remember, it's a business and that's all. They are there to make money off of the dead. Simple. And profit is the driving force. So treat it like buying a new car and don't let them sell you options that don't matter or exist. It's a pig in a poke.
peace
If you have an infant die or sometimes even a small child, most of these conglomerates will be more than happy to inter your child for free. Because they know you'll be coming back whenever you need funeral services. SCI would specialize in stillborn infants that might not normally be provided
services. They will make a "kind" outreach to the family after the snitches from the hospital make their daily update. It seems really nice, but it costs them next to nothing and insures family faithfulness to the funeral home in the future. Sad but true.
Seek out sensible arrangements and have it all monitored and be a difficult customer if you have to. They aren't being too nice when you look around the arrangement office and you see many signs saying "payment is expected in full before providing any services". Indeed. I believe I should be satisfied with all the services before I pay them. This makes common sense. But that isn't how it works there. So be combative and make them give you a certified price list up front for every service they offer. This is REQUIRED of them by law, as it is even if they are questioned about the price of certain funeral goods by order number over the phone. Remember, it's a business and that's all. They are there to make money off of the dead. Simple. And profit is the driving force. So treat it like buying a new car and don't let them sell you options that don't matter or exist. It's a pig in a poke.
peace
concernedperson
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I know everything you say is correct. I have a family that thinks the large memorial will bring them closer to God. I know that the funeral home was remiss in reporting a lot of facts and they love my family because everytime we die it is another one for their coffers. What you say is not lost on many of us. I will be cremated when I die. I absolutely refuse to have a big expensive coffin and if my daughter gets any ashes she can say...Hey, Mom where should this furniture be moved? I want this acknowledgement. I do not want to be a pawn in the funeral home business. And I do not want anyone to think this is a pure and thoughtful business.
Maikai
New Member
You should write a book....I had no idea--thanks for sharing!
Maikai
New Member
Maikai said:
Someone did write a book...I'll check it out.
leann coburn
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Only the best for fellow websleuthers. We can handle the truth because we deal with it all the time. Cremation is fine; just make sure someone is there at the start and will receive the ashes as soon as they are ready. Some bones and teeth will be left and will be placed in a small electric grinder so that the ashes take on their characteristic white appearance. Just insist on immediate cremation and don't be afraid to push the button. It's actually very reassuring to most people to do so and to be a part of the process. If someone is watching and someone cares, the body will be fine.
Unfortunately, my own elderly parents also want to be treated the way their parents and loved ones were in the past. I don't even tell them relevant facts any more. Everyone of their parents and others in their families insist on caskets w/sealers, for example. They really want to believe that these are effective. I will let them believe what they wish. This is human kindness. They believe in the resurrection of the body, so they are afraid of cremation. But look at the egyptian mummification tradition. I have yet to hear of one of these "preserved" people being brought back to life. The God I believe in will have no problem putting us back together when we awake again.
Just remember that you have a right to possess the truth in your heart and that your heart knows when it hears the truth. And enjoy your life as much as you can...I've never seen a hearse pulling a u-haul behind it. You can't take it with you, so enjoy it now and always find love in your heart.
mo
Unfortunately, my own elderly parents also want to be treated the way their parents and loved ones were in the past. I don't even tell them relevant facts any more. Everyone of their parents and others in their families insist on caskets w/sealers, for example. They really want to believe that these are effective. I will let them believe what they wish. This is human kindness. They believe in the resurrection of the body, so they are afraid of cremation. But look at the egyptian mummification tradition. I have yet to hear of one of these "preserved" people being brought back to life. The God I believe in will have no problem putting us back together when we awake again.
Just remember that you have a right to possess the truth in your heart and that your heart knows when it hears the truth. And enjoy your life as much as you can...I've never seen a hearse pulling a u-haul behind it. You can't take it with you, so enjoy it now and always find love in your heart.
mo