NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[McSpy]

That's the simplest explanation, for sure. And a wider search area was needed. But I'm still not convinced that she took off running. I do not think she disappeared on her own. If so, clothing, remains, etc - something would have turned up by now. JMHO

I'm not so sure that is true. The White Mountains are thickly forested and most people stick to the trails. Hunters go off trail, but not so much along roads such as Rt. 112, because there are better areas to hunt.

 

[McSpy]

Wonder if they could check the ATM and liquor store video to see her shoes
?

Good point! If she succumbed to the elements, most likely the shoes are still in the forest.

 

[McSpy]

Thanks all for the great posts on Maura's shoes. It makes me think she would not have gone into to the woods, unless she stepped into them to hide from approaching vehicles, or she succumbed to hypothermia. With hypothermia, victims may not think straight, so she could have entered the woods with that scenario.

 

[goldiegirl]

After thinking about it.... perhaps as sleuths we are looking for too much skullduggery - the simplest explanation is that MM took off running and at some point stopped because she was tired or tripped on a stone and decided to rest in the woods, and scummed to the elements that way. A wider search area was needed...

A wider search STILL could be useful. Of course, the problem is that you never know just how far out is far enough. They could search a 10 mile radius, and she could be 10.1 miles away, and they wouldn't find her. It takes a lot of manpower and planning, and it would be difficult, and like I said, you just don't know when you've looked enough. I'd still like to see it done, though.

 

[HeartOfGranite]

A wider search STILL could be useful. Of course, the problem is that you never know just how far out is far enough. They could search a 10 mile radius, and she could be 10.1 miles away, and they wouldn't find her. It takes a lot of manpower and planning, and it would be difficult, and like I said, you just don't know when you've looked enough. I'd still like to see it done, though.

It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack if she wandered off the road in a lot of places. Thick woods with dense underbrush, creeks with steep banks, boulders. There are several fire roads and hiking trails off 112, and if Maura hit her head and/or had indeed been drinking, that she took a "shortcut." Is it possible that she carried one or more bottles of liquor with her as she ran/walked, to "keep warm?" If she was drinking actively she would have gotten hypothermic faster and also possibly have gotten disoriented Also, since one potential witness said she ran when she saw him, I believe it's totally possible that Maura tried to travel off the road to avoid detection, wandered too far, and gotten lost. It would not take long to succumb to the elements in those woods on a cold night, and there are bear and mountain lion as well. This has always been, to me, the most likely scenario. She somehow got off the road, got disoriented and lost (or fell and was too injured to make it back to the road), and died of exposure.

 

[gnomony]

If she wanted to leave the road to avoid being seen by an oncoming car, she might have chosen what looked to be a clearing in the forest (judging from the faint reflection of the snow in the near-darkness) and then sat down on a rock to rest, succumbed to hypothermia, etc.

And if the clearing turned out to be the occasionally wide expanse of the Wild Ammonoosuc River, which borders the road for miles and portions of which would have been frozen over, all evidence of her demise could easily have been lost in flood of the spring snowmelt. That river is appropriately named and the raging water tumbles a lot of boulders around each spring.

 

[OldSteve]

It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack if she wandered off the road in a lot of places. Thick woods with dense underbrush, creeks with steep banks, boulders. There are several fire roads and hiking trails off 112, and if Maura hit her head and/or had indeed been drinking, that she took a "shortcut." Is it possible that she carried one or more bottles of liquor with her as she ran/walked, to "keep warm?" If she was drinking actively she would have gotten hypothermic faster and also possibly have gotten disoriented Also, since one potential witness said she ran when she saw him, I believe it's totally possible that Maura tried to travel off the road to avoid detection, wandered too far, and gotten lost. It would not take long to succumb to the elements in those woods on a cold night, and there are bear and mountain lion as well. This has always been, to me, the most likely scenario. She somehow got off the road, got disoriented and lost (or fell and was too injured to make it back to the road), and died of exposure.

:Welcome1: HeartOfGranite to this thread! Enjoyed reading your post!

 

[OldSteve]

If she wanted to leave the road to avoid being seen by an oncoming car, she might have chosen what looked to be a clearing in the forest (judging from the faint reflection of the snow in the near-darkness) and then sat down on a rock to rest, succumbed to hypothermia, etc.

And if the clearing turned out to be the occasionally wide expanse of the Wild Ammonoosuc River, which borders the road for miles and portions of which would have been frozen over, all evidence of her demise could easily have been lost in flood of the spring snowmelt. That river is appropriately named and the raging water tumbles a lot of boulders around each spring.

Excellent point! Did not know about the river being so close to the road!

 

[flightlevel]

If she wanted to leave the road to avoid being seen by an oncoming car, she might have chosen what looked to be a clearing in the forest (judging from the faint reflection of the snow in the near-darkness) and then sat down on a rock to rest, succumbed to hypothermia, etc.

And if the clearing turned out to be the occasionally wide expanse of the Wild Ammonoosuc River, which borders the road for miles and portions of which would have been frozen over, all evidence of her demise could easily have been lost in flood of the spring snowmelt. That river is appropriately named and the raging water tumbles a lot of boulders around each spring.

Very good point. This scenario could have happened easily in the dark of night.

 

[McSpy]

A wider search STILL could be useful. Of course, the problem is that you never know just how far out is far enough. They could search a 10 mile radius, and she could be 10.1 miles away, and they wouldn't find her. It takes a lot of manpower and planning, and it would be difficult, and like I said, you just don't know when you've looked enough. I'd still like to see it done, though.

IMO, in the woods along the road side (Rt. 112 and maybe 116) all the way to the next towns would be a start, especially where they didn't search before. Maybe, work backwards from the towns to the Haverhill. I think she was pretty fit, so she could have gone far. Volunteer hikers could do it. It could be hairy in places though.

 

[gnomony]

Excellent point! Did not know about the river being so close to the road!

Here's what it looks like when the ice goes out. And when something like Irene goes through, it's even higher:

http://youtu.be/EsS5b5qOjFQ

 

[White Rain]

Here's what it looks like when the ice goes out. And when something like Irene goes through, it's even higher:

http://youtu.be/EsS5b5qOjFQ

Wow that was an incredible video for someone like me who lives deep down south and never sees stuff like that. ty

 

[goldiegirl]

If she wanted to leave the road to avoid being seen by an oncoming car, she might have chosen what looked to be a clearing in the forest (judging from the faint reflection of the snow in the near-darkness) and then sat down on a rock to rest, succumbed to hypothermia, etc.

And if the clearing turned out to be the occasionally wide expanse of the Wild Ammonoosuc River, which borders the road for miles and portions of which would have been frozen over, all evidence of her demise could easily have been lost in flood of the spring snowmelt. That river is appropriately named and the raging water tumbles a lot of boulders around each spring.

You know what, this is a really good point. Not only could she have stumbled into the river accidentally, but when people are hypothermic, they often feel the opposite and believe they are hot and do things like shed their clothing and seek out even colder places. You hear of this sometimes when someone gets lost or their car breaks down in a remote area in the winter, and when they're found they are often found apart from their clothing with their deaths ruled to be hypothermia. So, she may have come upon the river accidentally, or she may have already had hypothermia and been attracted to the water. What an awful thought. But all the realistic possibilities are pretty awful...

 

[McSpy]

You know what, this is a really good point. Not only could she have stumbled into the river accidentally, but when people are hypothermic, they often feel the opposite and believe they are hot and do things like shed their clothing and seek out even colder places. You hear of this sometimes when someone gets lost or their car breaks down in a remote area in the winter, and when they're found they are often found apart from their clothing with their deaths ruled to be hypothermia. So, she may have come upon the river accidentally, or she may have already had hypothermia and been attracted to the water. What an awful thought. But all the realistic possibilities are pretty awful...

Yes, this is a big possibility. Although, I do think she was physically able to make it to town, but she was not prepared (clothing, shoes, etc.) and it was pitch black. The elements were against her.

 

[rosierider]

YooHoo! James Renner, why no new posts?

 

[APIMaple]

YooHoo! James Renner, why no new posts?

He had mentioned finishing something and then getting back to it. I imagine he has other higher priorities. Family, official job.
I'm sure he'll be back.
Great things are worth waiting for

 

[cocomod]

Just a minor update ... FWIW

I just got off the phone with the New Hampshire Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff Strelzin concerning the partial human skull found in the Littleton horse cemetery and he believes they are now finishing up testing and estimated that in a few weeks or less there will be a press release on the matter.

Hey Scoops - any update on this? Thanks!!

 

[scoops]

Hey Scoops - any update on this? Thanks!!

The assistant attorney general didn't return my phone call on Friday, so I decided to stir things up by going to the local newspapers in that area and asking them why they haven't followed up on the story.

I think we will hear an update next week, not sure if it will be an update just to say they are still wrapping up testing or an update about what was discovered concerning the partial skull.

 

[OldSteve]

The assistant attorney general didn't return my phone call on Friday, so I decided to stir things up by going to the local newspapers in that area and asking them why they haven't followed up on the story.

I think we will hear an update next week, not sure if it will be an update just to say they are still wrapping up testing or an update about what was discovered concerning the partial skull.

Are you sure you aren't writing the new book? I like your style of investigating - great photos, and now you're on the case following up this story!

 

[scoops]

Are you sure you aren't writing the new book? I like your style of investigating - great photos, and now you're on the case following up this story!

I am positive I am not writing the book, I will leave that to James. He has energized me though to keep this case as fresh as possible with hopes of getting somewhere finally after seven years.

I am a professional journalist (at least for a little while longer, this career field sucks) but I actually am on the sports side of the writing aisle.