NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

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Hi all. I'm new here. I saw this case featured on Disappeared, which I'm watching on Netflix streaming. I enjoy the show despite it seeming to leave out important details.

I have a question regarding the alcohol in Maura's car and can't seem to find an answer. She supposedly bought some wine and several bottles of alcohol but I can only find mention of the wine being found in her car after the wreck. Does anyone know anything about the other 3 bottles of liquor?

Thanks!
 
Hi all. I'm new here. I saw this case featured on Disappeared, which I'm watching on Netflix streaming. I enjoy the show despite it seeming to leave out important details.

I have a question regarding the alcohol in Maura's car and can't seem to find an answer. She supposedly bought some wine and several bottles of alcohol but I can only find mention of the wine being found in her car after the wreck. Does anyone know anything about the other 3 bottles of liquor?

Thanks!


there really is no clear answer on this one.

It is believed that she had a box of wine (that exploded in her car after her wreck) and it has been reported by some sources that she had some bottles of alcohol as well (going off a receipt found in her car). The bottles weren't located. After an inventory of what was in her car, the items unaccounted for physcially were a black back pack and the bottles of alcohol. Her clothes, school books etc.. were all left behind in her car which she locked before she left the accident site.
 
I read extensively about MM on the Internet before I discovered Websleuths, but had not read about her case here until now. I had wondered if the matter of credit card fraud had come up and see that it has. Elsewhere, years ago I read some comments purportedly from people who lived her in her dorm at UMass. They admitted they didn't know MM personally but knew people who did. That is where I heard about the credit card fraud angle. While that is just hearsay, I wonder if Mr. Renner got his leads by talking to classmates of MM and residents in her dorm.

While that angle is incriminating for MM, it would only indicate that she had a problem if she continued to do something she had already gotten into trouble for doing, and could be related to her dependence on alcohol. It would also explain:

1.) Why she had recently been upset and cried after receiving a phone call. I don't believe she was involved in the hit and run. As a college student, I worked at the front desk of a dorm during the night shift and know that students come and go into the wee hours of the morning. If a front desk attendant needed to leave the post for any length of time, we were required to find a replacement. Leaving the post unattended is a serious breach of security. If MM had left her post long enough to be involved in a hit and run, someone in the dorm would be able to verify that she vacated her post.

2.) She suddenly packed up and left without telling anyone her destination. One theory is that she was heading to Canada to evade fraud charges. I do find it unlikely she would not call her family to let them know she was safe. Sadly, she was vulnerable enough traveling alone and without anyone's knowledge. She became even more vulnerable after crashing her car.

While I want to believe that Maura is still alive and the idea that she was fleeing to start a new life presents that possibility, I don't think it's probable unless someone was meeting MM to give her a ride. But, she wasn't in cell phone range to call someone for help. I do think she got a ride but, chances are, not with someone she knew or could trust. Had she committed suicide or succumbed to the elements, I don't think she would have wandered too far from the accident scene and her remains would have been discovered by now.

Whatever the case, it's so sad that she hasn't been heard from. Her dad has worked tirelessly to find answers, and the saddest part is that her mother died not knowing what became of her daughter. Whether or not we agree with Mr. Renner's methods, he may the only hope of finding answers for her remaining family.

Good thoughts, and well-thought out post.

I will just add my own personal thoughts, not trying to debate, just opening up discussion.

On Point 1: I'm really skeptical about the credit card issue if there was really one. She wasn't criminally charged with anything, that point needs to be understood and credit card fraud of any kind is no joke.
As far as a possible tie in to the hit and run that took place a block away from where she worked, I would like to think she had nothing to do with that, but I can't dismiss the possibility myself. Her father swoops into town less than 48 hours later to help her get a new car. In media reports no one is really questioning anything about the condition of maura's saturn yet it is introduced by family members, particularly maura's father that his daughter's saturn was almost undriveable and maura hardly ever drove it at all (almost as a built in excuse to explain her hiding her car for the weekend her father came up as if something wasn't suppose to be seen on the car and add to the fact it creates a great alibi for the father to come in and get her a new car.

On Point 2: totally agree with you. She became extremely vulnerable traveling alone. And whether or not she was involved in a hit and run, just depressed with life or was just wanting a break, she lost touch with her family and loved ones and anything could've happened to her up in new hampshire.

It was really sad to learn that maura's mother actually died on Maura's birthday.
I don't believe Maura's parents have any idea what happened to their daughter and that they are covering up something (concerning her disappearance).
However, the events that kind of started the chain in motion for Maura to leave her school campus ... I am just not so sure that her father in particular, doesn't know more than what has been released to the public to date.
 
Thanks. I thought I was really confused.

there really is no clear answer on this one.

It is believed that she had a box of wine (that exploded in her car after her wreck) and it has been reported by some sources that she had some bottles of alcohol as well (going off a receipt found in her car). The bottles weren't located. After an inventory of what was in her car, the items unaccounted for physcially were a black back pack and the bottles of alcohol. Her clothes, school books etc.. were all left behind in her car which she locked before she left the accident site.
 
About the Vasi hit and run - isn't it possible that she let someone else use her car and that person had the accident while Maura was still working security?

I'm not sure why she would rather cover up the accident than just admit to it, so I know that's unlikely. When I was in college I let my roommate drive my car even though she obviously wasn't on our insurance, and someone rear ended the car. I had to tell my parents that I had let my roommate drive. If someone had been hit I can't imagine covering this up just for insurance reasons/getting in trouble with parents. But still, it keeps coming to me that just because Maura herself may not have been involved it doesn't mean that her car wasn't.

ETA: And maybe - and this is all totally just me throwing things out there that I don't necessarily believe - but maybe the person driving was someone she didn't want anyone to know about, like a new boyfriend or something. One would think this would have come out by now, but you never know.
 
Hi all. I'm new here. I saw this case featured on Disappeared, which I'm watching on Netflix streaming. I enjoy the show despite it seeming to leave out important details.

I have a question regarding the alcohol in Maura's car and can't seem to find an answer. She supposedly bought some wine and several bottles of alcohol but I can only find mention of the wine being found in her car after the wreck. Does anyone know anything about the other 3 bottles of liquor?

Thanks!

I know someone replied to your question, but I've found something different:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-alcohol-missing.html

According to the blog, it was all accounted for.
 
About the Vasi hit and run - isn't it possible that she let someone else use her car and that person had the accident while Maura was still working security?

I'm not sure why she would rather cover up the accident than just admit to it, so I know that's unlikely. When I was in college I let my roommate drive my car even though she obviously wasn't on our insurance, and someone rear ended the car. I had to tell my parents that I had let my roommate drive. If someone had been hit I can't imagine covering this up just for insurance reasons/getting in trouble with parents. But still, it keeps coming to me that just because Maura herself may not have been involved it doesn't mean that her car wasn't.

ETA: And maybe - and this is all totally just me throwing things out there that I don't necessarily believe - but maybe the person driving was someone she didn't want anyone to know about, like a new boyfriend or something. One would think this would have come out by now, but you never know.

About the Vasi hit & run, yes, it's possible (her loaning her vehicle to someone)... I don't really see a connection though.

What is up with the creepy YouTube videos from that guy? I'm sure it's been discussed, but what are everyone's thoughts on it? Is there a connection somewhere with it? Where is this guy residing? From what I've seen, he's a troll, but does he know more?
 
I know someone replied to your question, but I've found something different:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-alcohol-missing.html

According to the blog, it was all accounted for.

this has been discussed with James.

He talked to someone in law enforcement who told him that the alcohol had all been accounted for. It doesn't mean they scooped up all of the alcohol though and stored it away in a cold case file somewhere. It means they know (have accounted for) how much alcohol maura was to have had on her at the time she took her trip by going over her liquor store receipt found in her car and physically seeing the smashed box of franzia wine in her car.
 
About the Vasi hit and run - isn't it possible that she let someone else use her car and that person had the accident while Maura was still working security?

I'm not sure why she would rather cover up the accident than just admit to it, so I know that's unlikely. When I was in college I let my roommate drive my car even though she obviously wasn't on our insurance, and someone rear ended the car. I had to tell my parents that I had let my roommate drive. If someone had been hit I can't imagine covering this up just for insurance reasons/getting in trouble with parents. But still, it keeps coming to me that just because Maura herself may not have been involved it doesn't mean that her car wasn't.

ETA: And maybe - and this is all totally just me throwing things out there that I don't necessarily believe - but maybe the person driving was someone she didn't want anyone to know about, like a new boyfriend or something. One would think this would have come out by now, but you never know.

It is a big IF ... But if Maura or her car had something to do with the hit and run, then she would've thought she would've been facing severe consequences. Petrit Vasi was in a coma for over a month after the wreck. Whomever struck him, could've very easily have killed him and at the time of wreck, I am assuming that his diagnosis wasn't very good for surviving. Then you add to the fact that it was a hit and run and someone (if caught) was facing some serious jail time.
 
It is a big IF ... But if Maura or her car had something to do with the hit and run, then she would've thought she would've been facing severe consequences. Petrit Vasi was in a coma for over a month after the wreck. Whomever struck him, could've very easily have killed him and at the time of wreck, I am assuming that his diagnosis wasn't very good for surviving. Then you add to the fact that it was a hit and run and someone (if caught) was facing some serious jail time.

Exactly. And that would totally explain her leaving and her getting a new car. But what it comes down to is, PV connection or not ,the reason Maura left likely doesn't matter, since it probably has nothing to do with what happened to her, IMO. Although, depending on what that reason was, I guess it could help us figure out her intentions. Say it was the PV accident, that could fit for both suicide or moving to Canada to escape charges. Then again some creep could've gotten her, too. Who knows :banghead:
 
Exactly. And that would totally explain her leaving and her getting a new car. But what it comes down to is, PV connection or not ,the reason Maura left likely doesn't matter, since it probably has nothing to do with what happened to her, IMO. Although, depending on what that reason was, I guess it could help us figure out her intentions. Say it was the PV accident, that could fit for both suicide or moving to Canada to escape charges. Then again some creep could've gotten her, too. Who knows :banghead:

It is a mystery that is for sure.

this one unlike other mysteries seems to have a lot of gaps in factual information that make it almost impossible to solve.

It is a very good chance that the prior events had little to do with where Maura ended up.
However, here is where I may stray from you some. Her family (particularly, the father) wants everyone to quit focusing in on the prior events that were taking place because since its not related to her disappearance per se, it is a waste of time and resources to look into.

I on the other hand, believe that those prior events tell a whole lot more of the story and could actually help in figuring out what maura was up to when she walked away from her car that night and maybe even lead to where she ended up.

Maura has now been missing for over eight years.

And no one can still get basic facts down concerning maura and her movements/decisions that were taking place in the five days before she went missing.

And that sort of thing, IMHO, doesn't happen by accident.

Someone is either not being truthful or purposefully leaving gaps and chunks out of the known events (maura's at work meltdown; maura's father's visit that weekend:maura's mysterious dorm room get-together; maura's first wreck involving her father's brand new car; maura's dorm room packed; maura's odd phone calls and directions seeking; etc........

way too many weird things going on in a span of just over 72 hours to be explained away as all individual conincidences that don't mean anything.
 
Any opinions on the documents that Renner has began posting?
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/p/documents.html

BBM

Just skimmed three of the documents. Will return to the docs as time permits. Am wondering about interviews conducted with a law enforcement officer in Oxford County, Maine and two officers in Rochester, New Hampshire. Both locales are a fair distance from Haverhill.....
 
It is a mystery that is for sure.

this one unlike other mysteries seems to have a lot of gaps in factual information that make it almost impossible to solve.

It is a very good chance that the prior events had little to do with where Maura ended up.
However, here is where I may stray from you some. Her family (particularly, the father) wants everyone to quit focusing in on the prior events that were taking place because since its not related to her disappearance per se, it is a waste of time and resources to look into.

I on the other hand, believe that those prior events tell a whole lot more of the story and could actually help in figuring out what maura was up to when she walked away from her car that night and maybe even lead to where she ended up.

Maura has now been missing for over eight years.

And no one can still get basic facts down concerning maura and her movements/decisions that were taking place in the five days before she went missing.

And that sort of thing, IMHO, doesn't happen by accident.

Someone is either not being truthful or purposefully leaving gaps and chunks out of the known events (maura's at work meltdown; maura's father's visit that weekend:maura's mysterious dorm room get-together; maura's first wreck involving her father's brand new car; maura's dorm room packed; maura's odd phone calls and directions seeking; etc........

way too many weird things going on in a span of just over 72 hours to be explained away as all individual conincidences that don't mean anything.

I agree that prior events are significant in determining why MM left and where she may have been headed. At the same time, I understand her dad not wanting those events publicized. I doubt the prior events are related to MM's whereabouts, because I doubt she reached her destination. If she willfiully disappeared long-term to escape prosecution for an offense she committed, her plans were changed when she wrecked. Even if she'd managed to hitchhike to Canada, she likely would have contacted her family to let them know she was safe. If LE has checked the possibility of MM entering Canada, there would be records at the border. She may have gotten a ride or walked to another part of Haverill and, without transportation, may have taken up occupancy in a vacant barn or other building. I know LE used tracking dogs around the area of the accident, but I don't recall if they searched other areas. If she took up residency in an abandoned building, she likely succumbed to the elements. The other alternative is that she was given a ride, either within Haverill or further north, by a criminal type.
 
I agree that prior events are significant in determining why MM left and where she may have been headed. At the same time, I understand her dad not wanting those events publicized. I doubt the prior events are related to MM's whereabouts, because I doubt she reached her destination. If she willfiully disappeared long-term to escape prosecution for an offense she committed, her plans were changed when she wrecked. Even if she'd managed to hitchhike to Canada, she likely would have contacted her family to let them know she was safe. If LE has checked the possibility of MM entering Canada, there would be records at the border. She may have gotten a ride or walked to another part of Haverill and, without transportation, may have taken up occupancy in a vacant barn or other building. I know LE used tracking dogs around the area of the accident, but I don't recall if they searched other areas. If she took up residency in an abandoned building, she likely succumbed to the elements. The other alternative is that she was given a ride, either within Haverill or further north, by a criminal type.


And I still have to throw out the suicide theory. There hasn't been anything that has been uncovered to date that steers away from a possible suicide. I don't think (when she left for New Hampshire) that maura envisioned committing suicide in her car. I still think plenty infortmation that is known points towards maura heading off for a hiking trail.

All searches for maura (that have been reported) have all been done in very close proximity to where her car was found, however, she could've very easily continued on, hitchhiked, and still ended up at a familiar (to her) hiking location.

It is proven (by news reports) that maura was in the very same area she disappeared just months before with her father on a mountain climbing quest.

I can't just overlook that tidbit and say that is just a peculiar conincidence.
 
BBM

Just skimmed three of the documents. Will return to the docs as time permits. Am wondering about interviews conducted with a law enforcement officer in Oxford County, Maine and two officers in Rochester, New Hampshire. Both locales are a fair distance from Haverhill.....

It seems they were letting them know there was a missing woman and to be be on the look out for her. However, I need to review those docs again to be sure.
 
It is a mystery that is for sure.

this one unlike other mysteries seems to have a lot of gaps in factual information that make it almost impossible to solve.

It is a very good chance that the prior events had little to do with where Maura ended up.
However, here is where I may stray from you some. Her family (particularly, the father) wants everyone to quit focusing in on the prior events that were taking place because since its not related to her disappearance per se, it is a waste of time and resources to look into.

I on the other hand, believe that those prior events tell a whole lot more of the story and could actually help in figuring out what maura was up to when she walked away from her car that night and maybe even lead to where she ended up.

Maura has now been missing for over eight years.

And no one can still get basic facts down concerning maura and her movements/decisions that were taking place in the five days before she went missing.

And that sort of thing, IMHO, doesn't happen by accident.

Someone is either not being truthful or purposefully leaving gaps and chunks out of the known events (maura's at work meltdown; maura's father's visit that weekend:maura's mysterious dorm room get-together; maura's first wreck involving her father's brand new car; maura's dorm room packed; maura's odd phone calls and directions seeking; etc........

way too many weird things going on in a span of just over 72 hours to be explained away as all individual conincidences that don't mean anything.

Does the police know this info? Maybe Maura's family and friends feel it isn't important for the public to know it.

It seems LE is leaning towards foul play now. Originally, they leaned towards suicide. JMO
 
Nope. Like the credit card thing, this has been bandied about as rumor in some circles (cough cough topix cough cough) but never reported by any reputable media outlet. And nobody's ever come forward to talk about it directly--again, the only evidence we have is thru Mr. Renner.

I read about it on that board. A former Amherst student explained the cc fraud. I don't believe she ever posted again after that posting and maybe a few posts in answer to questions on her original post. She seemed genuine. Supposedly, she intervened on the board, because the posters comments about Maura and the cc fraud rumor were getting to her, so she posted to set them straight. I didn't participate on that board, but read many of the posts. The posters on that board were too reckless and foolish for my taste. JMO
 
Does the police know this info? Maybe Maura's family and friends feel it isn't important for the public to know it.

It seems LE is leaning towards foul play now. Originally, they leaned towards suicide. JMO

I am definitely going to go back and re-read through all those documents.
I think we see them a little bit differently too.

I translate many of the documents as the state of new hampshire dangling out there a "possible murder investigation" as a means to keep fred murray off their backs.

Everything Fred is requesting is conveniently met with, no we can't release that to you, it might mess up our investigation. Yet over eight years later, there has been no viable suspect announced or any details that lead towards a possible foul play scenario.
 
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