NJ NJ - Margaret Fox, 14, Burlington, 24 June 1974

[cherrymeg]

Totally agree. Something must connect all the dots on this thing. I think because LE didn't seem to really start looking into the phonecall until quite some time later that any lead they may have was mighty cold.

I'm also not totally convinced that the "buttered topping" phrase is enough of a clue to discern identity. I think this person had probably seen one of the Home Pride adverts and just used this phrase instead of say "the icing on the cake".

I don’t think they are the same people. I think the ransom call might have been a cruel prank. The buttered phrase seems like something you would hear in an old gangster movie. The person that arranged for her to babysit must have sounded trustworthy enough for her parents to agree to her going there. It could be the same person trying to throw people off. There are fake ransom calls when people go missing. She was supposed to meet or get picked up in a certain car after getting off the bus. Where details about the car a lie? If the the person that kidnapped her never saw her would he show up in a red VW Beetle or would he look for a girl getting off the bus and call out her name? Also why that bus, why that location? Was it convenient or familiar? I wonder what made the father trust the man? A man making calls to schedule babysitting and canceling once might make people suspicious. If people were more trusting in the 70s they might find it odd that a man is scheduling a babysitter and canceling once. Something must have sounded true when he called about needing a sitter. Either he had kids and a wife or he borrowed someone else’s life story.

 

[Ciriii57]

She was supposed to meet or get picked up in a certain car after getting off the bus. Where details about the car a lie? If the the person that kidnapped her never saw her would he show up in a red VW Beetle or would he look for a girl getting off the bus and call out her name? Also why that bus, why that location? Was it convenient or familiar?

I bet the location was familar to the person or why choose it. They may even have lived around there. It seems strange to me if the person would show up in a different car and then have to call out her name? Of course, if only Margaret alighted at that stop then it's a pretty sure guess it was her. Though he couldn't have known that beforehand. It suggets that either he was there in that specific car and Margaret recognised and went off with him OR that this person already knew what Margaret looked like. While it's possible that they did; it doesn't really fit in with the random nature of his victim selection-he seemed to not care who answered the ad, just as long as someone did?!

A man making calls to schedule babysitting and canceling once might make people suspicious. If people were more trusting in the 70s they might find it odd that a man is scheduling a babysitter and canceling once.

Or might the opposite be true. Might cancelling once and then rescheduling make you sound more believable? Oh well he didn't need her this time (showing he wasn't "desperate" to get his hands on her and perhapos backing up his story) but he is willing to hire her again?

 

[PGHJW]

I think there’s more to the call that’s been held back to make police believe it’s authentic. Just always been a feeling.

 

[Ciriii57]

I think there’s more to the call that’s been held back to make police believe it’s authentic. Just always been a feeling.

Very interesting, any speculations about what they might be holding back?

I find this family a particularly odd choice for a ransom demand. Unless they were sitting on some undisclosed source of wealth that the ransom caller knew about then they just feel like an unusual choice for a ransom kidnap. Also...the randomness of placing an advert to kidnap someone for ransom seems weird, like you could end up with someone who doesn't have a pot to pee in!

If there was more to the ransom call that hasn't been released, that woukd make sense.
I am of a mind that this caller was the same as the person who took Margaret but I don't think they were serious about a ransom, I feel like this was their way of stalking and teasing the family.

 

[PGHJW]

Very interesting, any speculations about what they might be holding back?

I think there was probably something before the line that we heard him say to prove that he was real. I just don’t think they’d release it unless they were sure. Maybe he even had her briefly say something. I just feel like we’re getting the one line to see if anyone recognizes it.

 

[BethAnn777]

I think there was probably something before the line that we heard him say to prove that he was real. I just don’t think they’d release it unless they were sure. Maybe he even had her briefly say something. I just feel like we’re getting the one line to see if anyone recognizes it.

Interesting. This never even occurred to me.

 

[SAMS]

Bumping for Margaret

 

[falkenberg3132]

Interesting. This never even occurred to me.

Yeah, I think there's more on the recording as well, as PP said, likely even original audio from Margaret/Maggie, herself.

But a voice is just a voice and if that person is dead, many of those that knew him in life -- if *they themselves* are even alive -- will have forgotten what his voice sounded like. Most 8mm home movies and audio cassettes are very unlikely to have survived as it was easier to tape over them or bin them.

 

[PGHJW]

Looking back it seems that the call was unveiled on the 45th anniversary. I wonder if anything will come out this year for the 50th.

 

[falkenberg3132]

50 years. I doubt the guy is still alive... and what persistently troubles me is that he well... went to all that trouble.

This isn't someone who does a quick grab, sexual assault and leave her naked and dead somewhere. No, i think he had in mind a lengthy/extended time to enjoy putting whatever "princess" he acquired to "good use" in his bedroom or cellar.

JMO obviously.

 

[Richard]

Margaret Fox, age 14, missing since 24 June1974 from Burlington, New Jersey

This June 24th will mark the 50 year anniversary of Margaret's disappearance.

LINK:

The Unsolved Disappearance Of Margaret Fox

In June of 1974, Margaret Ellen Fox was 14 and her normal life was about to change dramatically. The 105-pound freckled-faced, shy girl stood 5’2″. She wore glasses and was missing two …

ncuffs.com

 

[falkenberg3132]

Something just struck me @Richard - at the time of Margaret's disappearance, had the "George Glass" episode of The Brady Bunch been recently aired or rerun in the area - the post you linked pointed out that the guy took his name from Jack Marshall, the owner of the store and it was 22 years before Keyser Soze.

Again, this guy went to a lot of trouble and you don't do that for only a quick and relatively small personal reward, so again, i think Margaret was his private toy for quite some time before he voluntarily chose to grant her death.

 

[PGHJW]

50 years. I doubt the guy is still alive... and what persistently troubles me is that he well... went to all that trouble.

This isn't someone who does a quick grab, sexual assault and leave her naked and dead somewhere. No, i think he had in mind a lengthy/extended time to enjoy putting whatever "princess" he acquired to "good use" in his bedroom or cellar.

JMO obviously.

If he were between 25 and 35 he could very well be still alive and the voice sounds on the lower end of that.

Look at how many 70 and 80 year olds are being caught alive after DNA.

 

[falkenberg3132]

If he were between 25 and 35 he could very well be still alive and the voice sounds on the lower end of that.

Look at how many 70 and 80 year olds are being caught alive after DNA.

True. But, a number of things could have felled him between 1974 and now -- cancer, accident etc.

 

[PGHJW]

True. But, a number of things could have felled him between 1974 and now -- cancer, accident etc.

And he could be looking over his shoulder while cooking a roast wondering if he's getting caught. We just have no idea.

 

[falkenberg3132]

And he could be looking over his shoulder while cooking a roast wondering if he's getting caught. We just have no idea.

I know. as I said upthread - he went to a lot of trouble to acquire a teenage girl. Too much work and dedication for the usual "strip and SA and dump on roadside or in the woods".

Which is *why* i *feel* but cannot *prove* that Margaret was his, well, human blow-up doll for a while after she vanished.

All that preparatory work indicates he wanted to actually do something with whatever girl fell into his grasp - if he just wanted the money, he could have taken the ransom and dumped her body within days of making the phone call and collecting it.

 

[PGHJW]

I know. as I said upthread - he went to a lot of trouble to acquire a teenage girl. Too much work and dedication for the usual "strip and SA and dump on roadside or in the woods".

Which is *why* i *feel* but cannot *prove* that Margaret was his, well, human blow-up doll for a while after she vanished.

All that preparatory work indicates he wanted to actually do something with whatever girl fell into his grasp - if he just wanted the money, he could have taken the ransom and dumped her body within days of making the phone call and collecting it.

Absolutely true. With all of the horrors we've heard of over the years it wouldn't surprise me if some day a "dungeon" is discovered with full blown evidence once one of these long-living predators/murderers suddenly dies. Probably not living evidence, but remains certainly.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Margaret Ellen Fox – The Charley Project

 

[Richard]

Margaret has been missing for almost 50 years. Without DNA to connect a potential perpetrator, investigators are restricted somewhat to older methods.

The theory of Margaret being the victim of a serial rapist/pedophile/killer is one with merit. A study of known serial offenders might turn up something.

One example (out of many) who comes to mind is Robert Bowman, currently serving a life sentence on Ohio for the abduction and murder of Eileen Adams in 1968.

 

[falkenberg3132]

@PGHJW @Richard Like i said --- someone went to a great deal of effort and planning to acquire a teenage girl -- your average crim doesn't do this -- let alone have the kind of skills and planning ability that seems to have gone into it. That doesn't make sense if he just wanted money or a quick r*pe and throat slash and then strip and dump her.

I'm worried that this may have been overlooked by LE because orientating towards it could have made a crucial difference.