NJ NJ - Mindy Jordan, 46, missing from cruise ship off Atlantic City, 11 May 2008

[KR2tonenow]

I agree with that statement but I also think that his being an abuser makes him more likely to kill.

Motion sickness/or changing clothes, 2 reasons why she stayed behind alone for 18 min. in her room. How did she get "blown" over the ledge?? That's right HE SAID she was clowning around. I still have not heard an account of the other couple's statement, which would be helpful unless it gets swept under the NCL rug.

 

[philamena]

Motion sickness/or changing clothes, 2 reasons why she stayed behind alone for 18 min. in her room. How did she get "blown" over the ledge?? That's right HE SAID she was clowning around. I still have not heard an account of the other couple's statement, which would be helpful unless it gets swept under the NCL rug.

:clap:

 

[JBean]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Published: May 22. 2008 09:30AM [/FONT]

Mother seeks further FBI action into her daughter's cruise death

Even though video surveillance footage from the cruise ship which Mindy Jordan fell to her death from shows no foul play, her mother still wants the FBI to investigate.
American mother-of-two Mindy Jordan, of New Jersey — plunged from the Norwegian Dawn 45 miles northeast of Atlantic City on May 11 after witnesses said she was climbing from balcony to balcony.
The FBI, who have been investigating the case, says no foul play was involved. But Ms Jordan's mother Louise Horton, of Bordentown, New Jersey, is not satisfied, The Associated Press reports.

http://www.royalgazette.com/siftolo...le.jsp?articleId=7d85b333003000e&sectionId=60

 

[nanandjim]

I am still having a very hard time believing that Mindy was horsing around at night and decided to scale the rail to get to her friends' balcony. This is a woman who stayed with a man who beat her so bad that she needed reconstructive surgery. This kind of woman must have a submissive personality.

The only way that I can see how doing it is if he told her to do it and that he would help her. She reluctantly tried it with him holding her and then he dropped her.

I don't think that he will ever be charged. I wonder if she had a life insurance policy or if he will benefit in some way from her death.

 

[less0305]

I'm wondering if she was trying to look into the room to see what was going on in there without them seeing her. If she went to the door - she would have had to knock and be let in. Looking around the railing into the window, she might have thought she'd catch them doing something that she had a suspicion about.

 

[TheShadow]

"after witnesses said she was climbing from balcony to balcony"

There are witnesses, plural. I'm sure the witnesses would have seen if he was holding her or dropping her.

 

[RiverRat]

I'm wondering if she was trying to look into the room to see what was going on in there without them seeing her. If she went to the door - she would have had to knock and be let in. Looking around the railing into the window, she might have thought she'd catch them doing something that she had a suspicion about.

That has been the only reason I can come up with that might make any sense out of this tragedy.

 

[TheShadow]

Or maybe she thought she would be funny and surprise them by sneaking in that way. Since it was stormy and the railings were probably wet and slick, this was really stupid. I feel for her mom. I know she probably doesn't like this guy, but that doesn't mean he's responsible. If witnesses saw what happened, and if they are not people who would have a reason to lie, then she needs to accept that sometimes bad things happen.

 

[fran]

I agree with the mom. I would want to see the video myself and perhaps even a private investigator as well. I would also like to know 'who' these alleged witnesses are. Her bf? doesn't count, imo.

Even Greta said as far as she was aware, the cameras in the hallways are not without lapses. I'd need to know EXACTLY how that camera worked. COULD he have gotten back in the room, possibly without the camera filming it, or could it be of such poor quality, you just plain couldn't tell.

FWIW, this guy told three different stories when this first broke. IF he was telling the truth the first time, his story wouldn't change that drastically.

The FBI has said, foul play has NOT been ruled out.

I'll wait for an FBI report. The internal investigation by the cruise line doesn't count either. It's biased in their favor, imo. They don't WANT to find any foul play.

I'd prefer the truth. The jury is still out in my book.

JMHO
fran

 

[SweetPea2]

shortened for space:

FWIW, this guy told three different stories when this first broke. IF he was telling the truth the first time, his story wouldn't change that drastically.
JMHO
fran

Since I've dealt with the media in the past and know they don't always "get it right" I can't agree with this statement. The "media" has told 3 different stories. And we've all played the game how things get passed from one to the other and end up with something totally wrong.

I just don't have 100% faith in any media outlet.

 

[TheShadow]

I would not accept the boyfriend's word if he was the sole witness. But if his story matched what other witnesses saw, and if they had nothing to gain by lying, then I would. I'm not sure what people think this guy stood to gain by killing her. I know that it was reported that he was abusive, but there have been no reports that they were arguing prior to her fall. What would be his motive?

 

[angelmom]

I wonder what the mom wants the FBI to do? They have viewed the footage and interviewed witnesses. The family will not agree to watch the footage under the conditions specified by the cruise line. (I don't blame the cruise line, either - if they mail the disc, they risk it being leaked to the media and then being blamed for that! No lawyer on earth would recommend it.)

So the mom is not satisfied. Join the club. There are families every day who have to deal with a death surrounded by unanswered questions - suicides who leave no note; accidents like this one that don't seem to add up (although they might be more clearly accidents); even murders with inexplicable motives.

I really do feel for her, but we don't always get to know all of the answers, and she is just lucky that the FBI has done this much. Sometimes bad things happen, and there isn't always a mystery around it. What more does she want?

 

[fran]

I would not accept the boyfriend's word if he was the sole witness. But if his story matched what other witnesses saw, and if they had nothing to gain by lying, then I would. I'm not sure what people think this guy stood to gain by killing her. I know that it was reported that he was abusive, but there have been no reports that they were arguing prior to her fall. What would be his motive?

I haven't seen any mention of 'witnesses' of the incident except the bf. I know the cruise line has made statements about their investigation, but as far as I've heard, the only witness statement I have seen is from him. Oh, and I've seen more than one story from him. He told one story to the family when he called them and a different story to the media or cruise line.

Because of the rough seas that evening, I thought I read they had warned passengers to stay off deck. I would be surprised if there were any other witnesses.

There was a witness statement that at dinner they weren't drinking or 'little alcohol.' So we could assume she was NOT loose from drink.

Abusers don't need to have anything to gain except 'CONTROL.' It's as simple as that. For abusers, often times the slightest thing can set them off. There's not always a build up to the moment they loose control. Who knows, he might not have liked the way she looked at one of their male dinner companions.

Seriously, that COULD be all it takes to set one of these guys off.

That's why I'll wait until all the reports are in and the family has had time to check out the facts themselves, before I'll make a judgment. It COULD be an accident, but I'm not convinced yet.

JMHO
fran

 

[less0305]

There was a witness statement that at dinner they weren't drinking or 'little alcohol.' So we could assume she was NOT loose from drink.

JMHO
fran

clipped for space and I only wanted to make a comment on this statement.

Witnesses at dinner would say the same thing about me. No alcohol or no drinking.... because I sneak my alcohol aboard!!!! I don't order drinks at dinner. I drink from my cabin.

And I will say, I drink a little more on a cruise because there's no driving to worry about, no designated driver to worry about, etc. I probably get a lot more crazy on a cruise than I do in ordinary life.

Only my opinion, but not ordering drinks at dinner doesn't mean she wasn't drinking period.

 

[FlowerChild]

I haven't seen any mention of 'witnesses' of the incident except the bf. I know the cruise line has made statements about their investigation, but as far as I've heard, the only witness statement I have seen is from him. Oh, and I've seen more than one story from him. He told one story to the family when he called them and a different story to the media or cruise line.

Because of the rough seas that evening, I thought I read they had warned passengers to stay off deck. I would be surprised if there were any other witnesses.

There was a witness statement that at dinner they weren't drinking or 'little alcohol.' So we could assume she was NOT loose from drink.

Abusers don't need to have anything to gain except 'CONTROL.' It's as simple as that. For abusers, often times the slightest thing can set them off. There's not always a build up to the moment they loose control. Who knows, he might not have liked the way she looked at one of their male dinner companions.

Seriously, that COULD be all it takes to set one of these guys off.

That's why I'll wait until all the reports are in and the family has had time to check out the facts themselves, before I'll make a judgment. It COULD be an accident, but I'm not convinced yet.

JMHO
fran

The FBI said WITNESSES (plural) so I am assuming the friends who were next door WITH the boyfriend are 2 of the witnesses.

NCL and the FBI both said he was NOT IN HER ROOM when she fell. I would assume that means the videos show she was alone - with no missing time.

The family may not be the best judges of Jorge's involvement. They may NEVER accept that Mindy fell by accident no matter what evidence the FBI provides or what the FBI determines to be the truth. When a loved in dies in a situation like this it is NOT uncommon for the family to insist something happened that didn't.

The family is the only source of the abusive Jorge information - the FBI has never mentioned it. The mother says she had broken bones in her face and required surgery but I have seen no corroborating statements from anyone (like Mindy's children?), nor a police report or hospital records.

The FBI seems satisfied (thus far) that Mindy fell by accident while she was alone in her room. There have been no new reports in over a week and no further information released. I feel so sad for Mindy's family (and her children) but their grief does not make Jorge guilty of murdering Mindy - especially from another ROOM with WITNESSES.

My Opinion

 

[Rino]

clipped for space and I only wanted to make a comment on this statement.

Witnesses at dinner would say the same thing about me. No alcohol or no drinking.... because I sneak my alcohol aboard!!!! I don't order drinks at dinner. I drink from my cabin.

And I will say, I drink a little more on a cruise because there's no driving to worry about, no designated driver to worry about, etc. I probably get a lot more crazy on a cruise than I do in ordinary life.

Only my opinion, but not ordering drinks at dinner doesn't mean she wasn't drinking period.

Good points and frugal

Additionally on a cruise you can be drinking all day long, so drinking a little at dinner means nothing.

 

[TheShadow]

I haven't seen any mention of 'witnesses' of the incident except the bf. I know the cruise line has made statements about their investigation, but as far as I've heard, the only witness statement I have seen is from him. fran

See JBean's post #357 above

 

[SuziQ]

The investigation is far from over. Please refer to posts 242,243,244,245 and 318. The funny thing about some of the articles out there is they quote directly from the FBI that the investigation is ongoing and refute the initial FBI statement that no foul play was involved, but the article title says no foul play involved. The author's own titles contradict what's written in the articles.

The article from the Royal Gazette is poorly written and is about a week behind on their facts based on the initial incorrect FBI statement. Mindy's mom wanted the FBI to take a close look and they are.

Someone mentioned the timing on the tapes. In one of my above referred to posts, an article quotes directly from the FBI that the time synch has to be checked among other things.

And about motive. How about losing his temper? Guys like him can go from happy to murderous in split second.

 

[SuziQ]

Also the FBI has come out and said the statement released by NCL is not accurate.

 

[fran]

Like I said, I've only seen one alleged witness statement to the actual incident, and two different versions at that.

When it comes to a death, I would not want to assume anything. Facts, I want the facts.

The last statement I saw by the FBI said that they did not have a definitive answer on if there was foul play or not. I believe they took the film back to their laboratory to see if they could make it clearer.

Again, I would not assume anything when it comes to a questionable death.

We haven't seen the hospital reports about her surgery, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I believe the family and apparently so did the FBI, which is why they are investigating the alleged accident. I would be just like this family and leave no stone unturned regarding this incident if it were my loved one. ESPECIALLY when there's a history of abuse.

Like I've indicated, I would, at the least, want to see the statements by the alleged additional witnesses before I'd rule this an accident. I'd also go to the FBI labs and view the film. Oh, and I'd like to know, were these adjoining rooms, a door between, or not?

I'm on the fence on IF this was a accident. I just need answers before I'd rule either way. Again, I don't want to 'assume' anything, seeing the history of this couple. I would hope if I was the victim, my family would do the same.

JMHO
fran

The FBI said WITNESSES (plural) so I am assuming the friends who were next door WITH the boyfriend are 2 of the witnesses.

NCL and the FBI both said he was NOT IN HER ROOM when she fell. I would assume that means the videos show she was alone - with no missing time.

The family may not be the best judges of Jorge's involvement. They may NEVER accept that Mindy fell by accident no matter what evidence the FBI provides or what the FBI determines to be the truth. When a loved in dies in a situation like this it is NOT uncommon for the family to insist something happened that didn't.

The family is the only source of the abusive Jorge information - the FBI has never mentioned it. The mother says she had broken bones in her face and required surgery but I have seen no corroborating statements from anyone (like Mindy's children?), nor a police report or hospital records.

The FBI seems satisfied (thus far) that Mindy fell by accident while she was alone in her room. There have been no new reports in over a week and no further information released. I feel so sad for Mindy's family (and her children) but their grief does not make Jorge guilty of murdering Mindy - especially from another ROOM with WITNESSES.

My Opinion