NPR - Some Key Facts We've Learned About Police Shootings Over The Past Year

[al66pine]

"Originally Posted by katydid23 "http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/us/dal...ill-man-video/"
" This ^^^ case is a perfect example of what I am complaining about. The family of this mentally ill man called LE over a hundred times for help with their troubled son. He was a large, muscular man with a bad temper. Which is exactly why his mother and brother were afraid of him. "
"They called 911 over a hundred times for help trying to get him to comply with their wishes. And then, when on the 100th plus time, the cops felt threatened as he lunged at them and they shot, this family says the cops 'did not know how to deal with the mentally ill' and so they are going to sue.
Obviously, if the cops had wanted to harm him it would not have taken them over a hundred visits to the home for them to do so."
"And I think the family has a lot of nerve calling the cops out as 'inept' with the mentally ill, when the family relied upon them so many times due to their own ineptness. If they are so good at dealing with the mentally unbalanced why the need for 100+ calls to 911?" bbm

Perhaps the "need" results from the fact that the family are private citizens and presumably NOT trained to deal with different types of problematic people. I don't have an opinion as to the officers' conduct in that case, but I do expect my town to give its police officers better training than I have.

bbm

Ppl who have a family member w a chronic, acute physical illness are trained to perform various medical procedures
for the loved one, e.g. supervising meds intake, injections & wound care for diabetes, oxygen therapy procedures, etc.
Is it reasonable for these ppl to call 911 to summon LE to the home to give an injection? Do they? IDK.

W. mentally ill person living w family, seems - each household member should be better trained trained than LE
for dealing w the M-I person.
If fam members cannot handle it, and our mental health system cannot handle it,
then how can we expect LE to handle it? IDK.

Not saying I have any possible solution. Sad all the way around for everyone involved.

 

[shadowraiths]

If they FEARED the police they would be very respectful and avoid PROVOKING the police.

Do you mean like Levar Jones?

[video=youtube;KeT_oSLtI-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o[/video]

Oh. Wait. NM. He still got shot.

 

[Tawny]

I feel like, in regards to the way African American citizens (people/person of color, POC) are treated on a day to day basis as compared to White Americans, that many have never personally witnessed it, so it's hard to accept it as truth, no matter how many people say "No, this is how it is for me", and that's tragic. I see people trying to dig deeper to find the 'reason' a POC would be asked for receipts leaving stores way more than a white person (were they 'acting suspiciously'? do they have a criminal record?), because accepting that there is a deep rooted problem of systemic racism in our society is a hard pill to swallow. If systemic racism exists, those of us who are in the privileged majority (white people) have to accept that we are part of that problem, albeit wholly unintentionally, and it's reeeeeeally hard to do that.

I can say I have witnessed it. My POC BFF faces it every day. She's married to a white man, lives in a white suburban area, works at major hotel chains in upper management, has a cleaner record than anyone I know, and she gets stopped way more than I do. She's a way better human than me, so why is this? Wrong place, wrong time, all the time? Worst luck ever? The only conclusion can be that even the people stopping her more than me would not recognize it within themselves that they have unfair prejudices that work as a disadvantage toward black people.

It's ingrained in us from generations and generations before us that white people are better than POC. White peoples' grandparents were literally taught that by their parents and grandparents. They were taught God wanted to keep us separate from 'them'. It was how it was 'back then.'

Conversely, it is ingrained in POC from generations and generations before not to trust the white man, because the white man thinks you're a criminal and will treat you as such.

These things aren't even taught on the surface. Few parents are literally saying "black people will attack you" and "white people will think you're a criminal". It's in interactions and conversations and observations. So it's going to take a WHOLE LOT of self awareness and swallowing that hard pill and making active, conscious efforts to retrain our brains and ourselves to not see that as a truth, but as a prejudice.

I read somewhere that the first thought you have (about anything) is what you're conditioned to believe and that the second thought that follows directly after is what you believe to be right. So, if we never get past that first thought, then we can never truly say we've attempted to learn and grow.

What does all of this have to do with officer involved shootings? I think it can start to try to explain why these situations are so much more volatile than when a white person is shot by police, or when "black on black crime" happens. Police are in a position of authority ("better than") and they weren't being questioned much when they were shooting POC before these incidents started cropping up in the news. And then when they did and POC were saying "See, this happens too much!", yet again, white people were saying those POC "deserved it". They weren't even worthy of life, in the eyes of many. It can be as simple as equating to: "If that person who is the same as me isn't worthy of life, then I am also deemed not worthy of life." and it feeds into the cycle, making POC angry. I don't know if I"m explaining anything very well, or if I'm on the right track, or if anyone bothered to read this.

All JMHO, and no offense intended anywhere. I'm just trying to figure things out myself, and maybe I'm helping, maybe I'm not. I don't know. <3

 

[EllieBee]

Do you mean like Levar Jones?

[video=youtube;KeT_oSLtI-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o[/video]

Oh. Wait. NM. He still got shot.

This is my biggest fear. I am a law-abiding citizen but I still go into panic mode when I see police because I know I am helpless should they decide I have broken some law for whatever reason or honestly, because they just want to.

I never felt that way until I moved here. Before then, I always trusted police and never got fearful around them. We just have some really awful problems here in LA, and I do think there are efforts being made to fix the corruption, but I still am seriously afraid of getting all dead because someone was in a bad mood, and not because I broke any laws. They just have to say I resisted, or appeared armed, or what have you.

I know it isn't like this everywhere, and thank God.

 

[EllieBee]

I feel like, in regards to the way African American citizens (people/person of color, POC) are treated on a day to day basis as compared to White Americans, that many have never personally witnessed it, so it's hard to accept it as truth, no matter how many people say "No, this is how it is for me", and that's tragic. I see people trying to dig deeper to find the 'reason' a POC would be asked for receipts leaving stores way more than a white person (were they 'acting suspiciously'? do they have a criminal record?), because accepting that there is a deep rooted problem of systemic racism in our society is a hard pill to swallow. If systemic racism exists, those of us who are in the privileged majority (white people) have to accept that we are part of that problem, albeit wholly unintentionally, and it's reeeeeeally hard to do that.

I can say I have witnessed it. My POC BFF faces it every day. She's married to a white man, lives in a white suburban area, works at major hotel chains in upper management, has a cleaner record than anyone I know, and she gets stopped way more than I do. She's a way better human than me, so why is this? Wrong place, wrong time, all the time? Worst luck ever? The only conclusion can be that even the people stopping her more than me would not recognize it within themselves that they have unfair prejudices that work as a disadvantage toward black people.

It's ingrained in us from generations and generations before us that white people are better than POC. White peoples' grandparents were literally taught that by their parents and grandparents. They were taught God wanted to keep us separate from 'them'. It was how it was 'back then.'

Conversely, it is ingrained in POC from generations and generations before not to trust the white man, because the white man thinks you're a criminal and will treat you as such.

These things aren't even taught on the surface. Few parents are literally saying "black people will attack you" and "white people will think you're a criminal". It's in interactions and conversations and observations. So it's going to take a WHOLE LOT of self awareness and swallowing that hard pill and making active, conscious efforts to retrain our brains and ourselves to not see that as a truth, but as a prejudice.

I read somewhere that the first thought you have (about anything) is what you're conditioned to believe and that the second thought that follows directly after is what you believe to be right. So, if we never get past that first thought, then we can never truly say we've attempted to learn and grow.

What does all of this have to do with officer involved shootings? I think it can start to try to explain why these situations are so much more volatile than when a white person is shot by police, or when "black on black crime" happens. Police are in a position of authority ("better than") and they weren't being questioned much when they were shooting POC before these incidents started cropping up in the news. And then when they did and POC were saying "See, this happens too much!", yet again, white people were saying those POC "deserved it". They weren't even worthy of life, in the eyes of many. It can be as simple as equating to: "If that person who is the same as me isn't worthy of life, then I am also deemed not worthy of life." and it feeds into the cycle, making POC angry. I don't know if I"m explaining anything very well, or if I'm on the right track, or if anyone bothered to read this.

All JMHO, and no offense intended anywhere. I'm just trying to figure things out myself, and maybe I'm helping, maybe I'm not. I don't know. <3

Beautifully said. It isn't about what YOU would do, it is about what you would do if you were THAT person.

If I were Anne Frank, if I were Jeanne D'Arc, if I were Mickey Sherman, if I were Trayvon Martin.

I cannot know someone else's experience until I have lived it.

 

[Tawny]

Beautifully said. It isn't about what YOU would do, it is about what you would do if you were THAT person.

If I were Anne Frank, if I were Jeanne D'Arc, if I were Mickey Sherman, if I were Trayvon Martin.

I cannot know someone else's experience until I have lived it.

BBM Yes!

And to add to that... If a person hasn't lived it (or can't, because we can't change our color, etc), then we have to open our hearts and listen to hear, instead of listening to answer back. I will never ever fully understand what it's like for POC in this country, but I can listen, acknowledge, and vow to do better than I have before and better than those who came before me, and I can work to teach my child to listen, acknowledge, and do better. JMO!

 

[shadowraiths]

The MMRMA Deadly Force Project
A Critical Analysis of Police Shootings Under Ambiguous Circumstances©
Thomas J. Aveni, MSFP

The Police Policy Studies Council
February 9, 2008
​

PDF research paper