NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #16

[jmarple]

Wish we knew if he could communicate with anyone through the LDS.org website (if that's possible). Or if there's website where ex-Missionaries meet up. Old missionary friends back in the states, could be living anywhere now.

SNIPPED

He couldn't communicate with anyone through LDS.org unless they are in the stake where his membership records are. He could, however, contact friends through several LDS/Mormon singles websites. Also, ex-missionaries frequently have reunions during LDS General Conference in April and October.

 

[laytonian]

I understand what you are saying laytonian about "off the grid" - but in Vegas it is very easy to obtain all those things without social services. Casinos throw boatloads of food away every day. Dumpster diving in a casino is not hard to do. Water can be had in just about any public restroom (I live in Reno and it's not uncommon to see homeless filling up their water bottles in MacDonalds). Money can be had by trollling casinos and "scooping" or "credit cashing".

Well, then, maybe we should be looking for a homeless guy with a loaf of bread and a giant jar of peanut butter? (I'm not really kidding.)

That was his main subsistence, according to his Trib coworkers -- and that was apparently his last grocery purchase (later found left behind in the kitchen).

Do the casinos really permit the homeless to troll the banks of gambling machines? I'd think they'd be calling the cops to get them out of there, and quit scaring the tourists. Is panhandling permitted? In March 2010, police were heavily patrolling the homeless areas and rousting them out into shelters.

To me, if he purposely disappeared, he did so to totally "leave"; parking your car many miles away from "the streets" (when you could have left it at a casino parking lot for free and walk a couple of blocks), isn't sounding right. We have maybe stress and some depression, but lots of organized travels and decisions also made that last week.

I'm not arguing; I'm just trying to see how a NON-streetwise person who isn't comfortable around "the worldly", would suddenly decide to go live among the worst of them -- undetected. You'd think that lifestyle would be a practiced "art".

 

[laytonian]

Wish we knew if he could communicate with anyone through the LDS.org website (if that's possible). Or if there's website where ex-Missionaries meet up. Old missionary friends back in the states, could be living anywhere now.

SNIPPED

He couldn't communicate with anyone through LDS.org unless they are in the stake where his membership records are.
He could, however, contact friends through several LDS/Mormon singles websites. Also, ex-missionaries frequently have reunions during LDS General Conference in April and October.

We found his registration on a couple of the LDS singles websites; ldslinkup was one -- and it seemed to automatically fill in another website. Last time I checked, there was still only one female "friend" and we don't know if he ever really used it or knew her. It might have been a way for him to see if someone else would find him.

 

[carbuff]

re: worldly -- I think we're making too big a deal about that one comment that someone remembers from years ago that comes from a situation where Steven himself gave out a lot of conflicting stories. Not streetwise, yeah, clearly -- but maybe he wanted to get out of a safe cotton-wool world and experience dirty reality.

 

[laytonian]

re: worldly -- I think we're making too big a deal about that one comment that someone remembers from years ago that comes from a situation where Steven himself gave out a lot of conflicting stories. Not streetwise, yeah, clearly -- but maybe he wanted to get out of a safe cotton-wool world and experience dirty reality.

He could find that in Utah, easily. Unless he truly wanted to leave his family behind; then, we're talking about something else.

 

[carbuff]

He could find that in Utah, easily. Unless he truly wanted to leave his family behind; then, we're talking about something else.

Huh? We talking about the same Utah here?

No, I'm just teasing with that -- but for some people, no, you can't find it in the state where your parents and family live. I don't think one has to go too far out on a limb to interpret his move to St. George as trying to get as far away from his family as he could without breaking ties. If that didn't work -- well, nothing left but a permanent break.

 

[Rindicella]

Well, then, maybe we should be looking for a homeless guy with a loaf of bread and a giant jar of peanut butter? (I'm not really kidding.)

That was his main subsistence, according to his Trib coworkers -- and that was apparently his last grocery purchase (later found left behind in the kitchen).

Do the casinos really permit the homeless to troll the banks of gambling machines? I'd think they'd be calling the cops to get them out of there, and quit scaring the tourists. Is panhandling permitted? In March 2010, police were heavily patrolling the homeless areas and rousting them out into shelters.

To me, if he purposely disappeared, he did so to totally "leave"; parking your car many miles away from "the streets" (when you could have left it at a casino parking lot for free and walk a couple of blocks), isn't sounding right. We have maybe stress and some depression, but lots of organized travels and decisions also made that last week.

I'm not arguing; I'm just trying to see how a NON-streetwise person who isn't comfortable around "the worldly", would suddenly decide to go live among the worst of them -- undetected. You'd think that lifestyle would be a practiced "art".

Hi there. I admit that the thing about "worldy" would seem incongruous.

As for the scamming in casinos - of course it's not "permitted" and it is in fact a "gaming violation" and yet, it is a daily occurance. Sometimes they work in teams, and the casinos don't enough security people to really do much about it. It' s considered more a "a pain" than anything else. If they catch them, sure they do try to prosecute, but that's a fairly rare occurance considering all the other stuff that goes on. (I used to work for Harrah's in surveillance years ago - there's just so many other things that happen in casinos that take precedence: medical emergencies, drunken fights, actual card cheats, high tech cheats, etc) Even with the downturn in the economy I would personally estimate that someone who "worked at it" could probably make at least $50 per day scooping.

Cops never go into the tunnels (which comprise about 500 square miles under the city) unless they are actually called/forced to.
The "rousting" that was referenced was from the Strip, and other areas above ground.

I admit I have not read everything about Steven so of course, you know more about his personal life. I did wonder though is it possible he wanted to leave the LDS church? I've heard of people who felt that way and seemed to find it difficult. (I'm not in any way suggesting anything bad about LDS, just wondering)

 

[Paulette]

Well, then, maybe we should be looking for a homeless guy with a loaf of bread and a giant jar of peanut butter? (I'm not really kidding.)

That was his main subsistence, according to his Trib coworkers -- and that was apparently his last grocery purchase (later found left behind in the kitchen).

Do the casinos really permit the homeless to troll the banks of gambling machines? I'd think they'd be calling the cops to get them out of there, and quit scaring the tourists. Is panhandling permitted? In March 2010, police were heavily patrolling the homeless areas and rousting them out into shelters.

To me, if he purposely disappeared, he did so to totally "leave"; parking your car many miles away from "the streets" (when you could have left it at a casino parking lot for free and walk a couple of blocks), isn't sounding right. We have maybe stress and some depression, but lots of organized travels and decisions also made that last week.

I'm not arguing; I'm just trying to see how a NON-streetwise person who isn't comfortable around "the worldly", would suddenly decide to go live among the worst of them -- undetected. You'd think that lifestyle would be a practiced "art".

With only a portfolio under your arm!?? "I think I'll leave my life behind, ditch my car in no man's land and hoof it to greener pastures - with my portfolio." So very unlikely.

Dollars to donuts he met his fate in SCA.

I live in Reno. The casinos don't call the cops. They have their own security, which is the law inside the casinos - they answer to no one. Bums last 2 seconds in a casino before they're tossed & told never to return.

 

[laytonian]

Idaho and Brazil. We can pretty much count out his going to Brazil unless he had a fake passport.

He wouldn't need his passport to *enter* Mexico (only to return). All he'd have to do is show his ID and tell them that he was staying within the border region. He could get a fake passport easily, across the border.

BUT, he may have had friends there with connections in the US.

He may also have made friends with some Brazilians. I worked for several years with an RM (female), and she always talked about certain people she'd met in Central America, as if they were family.

Surely he has friends from his school years in Idaho.

We've spoken to at least one of them, but IIRC, none of his UofU classmates.

 

[Fairy1]

Well, then, maybe we should be looking for a homeless guy with a loaf of bread and a giant jar of peanut butter? (I'm not really kidding.)

That was his main subsistence, according to his Trib coworkers -- and that was apparently his last grocery purchase (later found left behind in the kitchen).

Maybe he's not homeless at all.

Do the casinos really permit the homeless to troll the banks of gambling machines? I'd think they'd be calling the cops to get them out of there, and quit scaring the tourists. Is panhandling permitted? In March 2010, police were heavily patrolling the homeless areas and rousting them out into shelters.

Absolutely not. I'm sure they try, but security would be all over them in a heartbeat and throw them out. It would probably be more likely in the downtown casinos - not the Strip.

To me, if he purposely disappeared, he did so to totally "leave"; parking your car many miles away from "the streets" (when you could have left it at a casino parking lot for free and walk a couple of blocks), isn't sounding right. We have maybe stress and some depression, but lots of organized travels and decisions also made that last week.

I'm not arguing; I'm just trying to see how a NON-streetwise person who isn't comfortable around "the worldly", would suddenly decide to go live among the worst of them -- undetected. You'd think that lifestyle would be a practiced "art".

I'd interpreted the "wordly" comment to mean the co-workers were too sophisticated. I would not consider homeless people to be sophisticated at all.

Maybe he's writing a book and implanted himself into the sub-culture for research.

 

[laytonian]

Maybe he's not homeless at all.

Agreed; maybe he's not even in Vegas. All the searches for Live Steven have focused on street people in Vegas.

I'd interpreted the "wordly" comment to mean the co-workers were too sophisticated. I would not consider homeless people to be sophisticated at all.

I interpret his usage of the word "worldly" in the LDS sense, something that's a standard lesson, especially to the young men and Priesthood holders --

Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual : "Why is it important that we try not to let even a small amount of worldly ways into our lives? (See 2 Nephi 28:20–21.)"

Priesthood Lesson: "Many young men of the past and present have overcome and are overcoming worldly pressures and acting righteously."

Maybe he's writing a book and implanted himself into the sub-culture for research.

Why would he need to walk away from his family, friends, and church? If he had such a project in mind, wouldn't he proudly tell at least one person about it -- and not spare the pain his family faces? (If anyone writes a book, it should be Naegle.)

 

[laytonian]

Huh? We talking about the same Utah here?

No, I'm just teasing with that -- but for some people, no, you can't find it in the state where your parents and family live. I don't think one has to go too far out on a limb to interpret his move to St. George as trying to get as far away from his family as he could without breaking ties. If that didn't work -- well, nothing left but a permanent break.

There's two Utahs, about 50/50 now. St George is much more conservative than Salt Lake City. IF there was a break with everything in his past life, I actually think he could disappear right into the SLC gentile culture, with little problem -- the same way he could disappear anywhere else.

(Of course, I'm using the Elizabeth Smart example where she was walking around town, going to parties, etc, etc.....and no one questioned anything.)

St George, to me, would be a move *within the LDS Utah culture* while still meeting the "far away as possible" criteria. That move, in hindsight, really looks like a stepping stone.

 

[Fairy1]

Agreed; maybe he's not even in Vegas. All the searches for Live Steven have focused on street people in Vegas.

Mostly true. But in my daily travels, I don't focus on that theory alone.

I interpret his usage of the word "worldly" in the LDS sense, something that's a standard lesson, especially to the young men and Priesthood holders --

Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual : "Why is it important that we try not to let even a small amount of worldly ways into our lives? (See 2 Nephi 28:20–21.)"

Priesthood Lesson: "Many young men of the past and present have overcome and are overcoming worldly pressures and acting righteously."

If that's what he was referring to, he seems to have taken the lesson quite literally.

However, if that's what he was doing, he may very well have desired to walk away from all things worldly and live a very simple life. Depending on his definition of worldly, that may very well mean he is on the street somewhere.

Why would he need to walk away from his family, friends, and church? If he had such a project in mind, wouldn't he proudly tell at least one person about it -- and not spare the pain his family faces? (If anyone writes a book, it should be Naegle.)

I would ask why of many of the things he did do that we know about, wouldn't you?

My guess is, if he really did walk away and is ever found alive, it's not going to make any sense to most of us.

 

[laytonian]

My guess is, if he really did walk away and is ever found alive, it's not going to make any sense to most of us.

True. There'll probably be no explanation, and all anyone needs to know is that he's OK.

 

[mockingbird]

There are websites for returned missionaries to reconnect with others: mission.net, ldsmissionaries.com, etc.

 

[Fairy1]

There are websites for returned missionaries to reconnect with others: mission.net, ldsmissionaries.com, etc.

Thank you mockingbird and welcome.

I assume these sites are not accessible to outsiders?

 

[carbuff]

<snip>

My guess is, if he really did walk away and is ever found alive, it's not going to make any sense to most of us.

This is what I keep thinking. We try to apply logic to the problem, and it's not a logical problem. It's more likely an emotional and psychological one. We don't need to figure out what makes sense. We need to figure out what Steven was thinking, feeling, and trying to accomplish, even if it doesn't make sense to us from the outside. We need to get inside his head.

Yeah, I know. How?

 

[laytonian]

This is what I keep thinking. We try to apply logic to the problem, and it's not a logical problem. It's more likely an emotional and psychological one. We don't need to figure out what makes sense. We need to figure out what Steven was thinking, feeling, and trying to accomplish, even if it doesn't make sense to us from the outside. We need to get inside his head.

Yeah, I know. How?

GOAL:
A Job
A Wife

Repeat, repeat, repeat

PROBLEMS:
Debts (landlord, car payment or something else)
Family didn't know of immediate debt urgency in early December
Possible stress issues/depression (supposedly not serious)
No compansionship/close friendship (AFAIK) in St George
Unknown if close friendship in SLC
Demeaning Job

ADVANTAGES:
Loving family
Smart and funny (per SL Trib coworker/trainer)

?

 

[laytonian]

There are websites for returned missionaries to reconnect with others: mission.net, ldsmissionaries.com, etc.

Thank you!

ldsmissionaries.com just comes up with a placeholder "coming soon"

http://mission.net/ looks hopeful.
It's a private site not affiliated with the LDS church, and actually is a network of individual mission websites, separately maintained.
There's four separate mission fields in Sao Paolo!
Brazil Sao Paulo East
Brazil Sao Paulo Interlagos
Brazil Sao Paulo North
Brazil Sao Paulo South

Anyway, I went through all four searching for "Koecher", and got no indication he'd ever registered.

 

[RubyRed]

GOAL:
A Job
A Wife

Repeat, repeat, repeat

PROBLEMS:
Debts (landlord, car payment or something else)
Family didn't know of immediate debt urgency in early December
Possible stress issues/depression (supposedly not serious)
No compansionship/close friendship (AFAIK) in St George
Unknown if close friendship in SLC
Demeaning Job

ADVANTAGES:
Loving family
Smart and funny (per SL Trib coworker/trainer)

?

bbm
Based on the call with his Dad, I think they knew fairly early in December.

Sometimes I think after that call he became more determined to make it on his own without family help. That is why I think he didn't cash the check he had also. moo