GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[KaaBoom]

- Surveillance video from school and possibly from other homes in the area showing the cars in question, their locations, direction of travel, timestamps, who was chasing who
- GSR tests (hopefully, on all of them)
- EN's gun, along with ballistics
- BM's gun, along with ballistics
- any other guns at the scene, in the cars, in the home, along with ballistics
- Exact locations of where everything was found
- Earwitnesses who heard gunshots, tires screeching, etc.
- Eyewitnesses - dog walkers, trash putter-outers, nosey neighbors, other motorists
- What else might they have??

Any surveillance videos will look like the one that was already released. Nighttime surveillance video is pretty worthless, and will not show much. Also I doubt their were many dog walkers, trash putter-outers, nosey neighbors, or motorists out at 11PM. If there were any, they would have called 911 themselves. There will probably just be people who heard gunshots.

The other stuff is what will be important.

 

[PaperDoll]

This was guaranteed to be a night that did not end well, but didn't have to be that way:
* Alleged car threat while in the car - No LE call from any Buick passengers
* Arrival home from alleged car threat - No LE from anyone in Meyers home
* Buick out hunting - No LE call from anyone either at home in the car
* Buick finds the Audi - No LE call from anyone in the car
* Buick gets shot at by the Audi - No LE call
The biggest one to me is why RM didn't immediately call LE after he had been shot at.

EN too didn't call LE when he said that someone was after him and he saw a gun waving out the window. Instead he took it upon himself to also go after the Buick instead of reporting it. I know, I know, no one wanted LE to be involved due to whatever, but when you shoot your gun and kill someone, then the LE is involved.

 

[PaperDoll]

bbm

Yes, Audi - the car - followed Buick.
Prosecutor faces challenge: Showing intent of who to follow?
What evd does prosecutor put on, to show intent to follow.
Will anyone in Audi speak or be a witness for the state?
Driver? Other passenger(s)? All? None ?
Will driver or passenger be a witness for state? IDK, doubtful, imo,
ETA: UNLESS they are located and want to arrange quid pro quo,
i.e., testifying against EN in exchange for leniency on some other criminal charges
already pending, or perhaps something they do between shooting and time of interview and trial.

Does def team argue -- EN did not want to follow Buick, but driver did so independently? IDK
ETA: Does def argue -- EN did not want to follow Buick, but another passenger persuaded driver? IDK
I think, to do either of above, that def team must put on the driver or other passenger.
Will driver or passenger(s) be a witness for defense? IDK, doubt it.

Even if the Audi driver was the one driving/chasing, EN was the one who fired the shots, that is why someone is dead and now we have all this mess to deal with. EN pulled the trigger, he didn't have to but he did and not only once but twice and 22 rounds were fired at the home. Did he have to do that? NO!!! After the 1st shooting the Audi didn't need to go back to finish it, but they did, driver and passenger. EN doesn't get a free pass because he wasn't the driver, he was the shooter. The Audi driver doesn't get a free pass because he was the one who drove to the Meyers house, he didn't have to do that either.

 

[sonjay]

Any surveillance videos will look like the one that was already released. Nighttime surveillance video is pretty worthless, and will not show much. Also I doubt their were many dog walkers, trash putter-outers, nosey neighbors, or motorists out at 11PM. If there were any, they would have called 911 themselves. There will probably just be people who heard gunshots.

The other stuff is what will be important.

LE hasn't released 911 tapes. We have no idea how many calls LE might have received that night related to that incident. There were two separate shooting locations, both in residential areas. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were multiple 911 calls.

Also, lots of people walk their dogs just before going to bed. Or put out the trash for morning pickup. (No, I have no idea what days are trash pick-up days in that neighborhood. Trash putter-outers are just a "frinstance" of why people might be outside at that time of night.)

And lots of second-shift workers get off work at 11pm -- traffic would be light between 11 and 11:30 pm, but the streets wouldn't necessarily be empty.

 

[al66pine]

re: my earlier post re weak evd (from what we know LE has)

Even if the Audi driver was the one driving/chasing, EN was the one who fired the shots, that is why someone is dead and now we have all this mess to deal with. EN pulled the trigger, he didn't have to but he did and not only once but twice and 22 rounds were fired at the home. Did he have to do that? NO!!! After the 1st shooting the Audi didn't need to go back to finish it, but they did, driver and passenger. EN doesn't get a free pass because he wasn't the driver, he was the shooter. The Audi driver doesn't get a free pass because he was the one who drove to the Meyers house, he didn't have to do that either.

Maybe my post gave impression I thought EN deserves free pass. If so, unintended, sorry.
IDK if anyone s/get free pass. Seems like multiple ppl committed crimes that evening, not that I can sort it out. As you said ^, nobody had to do various things.

IIRC re EN's arrest warrant, nobody at scene(s) IDed EN as shooter.
- TM & KM saida silver car occupant fired. (I may be wrong)
- As of warrant date, other silver car driver or passengers not located. (Could change.)
- Surv cam's - AFAIK - did not capture shooting itself. (I may be wrong)
- After shooting, friends EN visited ~3:00am,were not at scene, not eye-wit's. If they testify, yes, their alleged stmts about EN's self proclaimed involvement as shooter, can be used, imo, as a hearsay admission-against-interest-exception. But depending on their personal histories, their SM, etc and EN's def team's expertise, they might be torn to shreds on cross exam. (I may be wrong)
If EN's interviews w LE are excluded, who or what puts gun in EN's hand shooting TM?

Not saying case will reach trial. W pre-trial discovery, both sides w/learn more about
strengths and weaknesses of their own case & the other side's case.
Isn't that how plea bargains are conceived, developed, and sometimes finalized?

 

[sonjay]

re: my earlier post re weak evd (from what we know LE has)


Maybe my post gave impression I thought EN deserves free pass. If so, unintended, sorry.
IDK if anyone s/get free pass. Seems like multiple ppl committed crimes that evening, not that I can sort it out. As you said ^, nobody had to do various things.

IIRC re EN's arrest warrant, nobody at scene(s) IDed EN as shooter.
- TM & KM saida silver car occupant fired. (I may be wrong)
- As of warrant date, other silver car driver or passengers not located. (Could change.)
- Surv cam's - AFAIK - did not capture shooting itself. (I may be wrong)
- After shooting, friends EN visited ~3:00am,were not at scene, not eye-wit's. If they testify, yes, their alleged stmts about EN's self proclaimed involvement as shooter, can be used, imo, as a hearsay admission-against-interest-exception. But depending on their personal histories, their SM, etc and EN's def team's expertise, they might be torn to shreds on cross exam. (I may be wrong)
If EN's interviews w LE are excluded, who or what puts gun in EN's hand shooting TM?

Not saying case will reach trial. W pre-trial discovery, both sides w/learn more about
strengths and weaknesses of their own case & the other side's case.
Isn't that how plea bargains are conceived, developed, and sometimes finalized?

Very nice summary of things, al66pine! I've been wondering about whether EN's friends will be permitted to testify about that conversation as a hearsay exception. If they're not, it's really hard to put the gun in EN's hand with any certainty. By the time he was arrested, it was waaaaaay too late for a GSR test. They don't have the Audi driver yet (that we know of). And in the arrest affidavit, BM did not I.D. EN as the shooter. Even if the gun is EN's, and the ballistics match the bullet that his Mrs. M -- if they can't put the gun in his hand at the time it was fired, they're going to have tough time convicting him of anything, IMO.

 

[SeeAlice]

I've got some he said-she said for you.

I have to go back for a moment to the one-trip/two-trip theory, and whether there were any driving lessons or road rage.

Something struck me today: KM described essentially the same trip as BM. All of the key events in the narratives of BM & EN correspond to a matching key event in KM's narrative.

KM	BM
Green car went to school for driving lesson — EN saw Buick at school	Green car went to school to look for EN — EN saw Buick at school
Near collision, green car honked at silver car — this set off the chase and shooting	Green car brandished or pointed gun at silver car — this set off the chase and shooting
Silver car chased green car	Green car chased silver car
Silver car stopped diagonally in front of green car and blocked its path	Silver car stopped diagonally in front of green car and blocked its path
Silver car driver got out and threatened green car	Silver car passenger shot at green car
Green car fled back to cul de sac	Green car fled back to cul de sac
Silver car followed followed and began shooting	Silver car followed and began shooting
BM came out of house & returned fire	BM got out of car returned fire
Silver car left	Silver car left

More than ever, I'm convinced there were no driving lessons and there was no road rage that night. That story was completely made up to cover up what BM did.

This also convinced me that both KM and BM were in the car for that fateful trip. When they saw their mother lying there shot and knew the police were going to be there any minute, they quick-quick put their heads together and morphed the entire trip into a driving lesson followed by road rage, with Brandon at home except for returning fire at the very end. But the only way these two stories could or would match so closely would be if KM actually experienced the same trip BM did.

In retrospect, KM did an admirable job of morphing all of the key events into something that made the Meyers appear to be innocent victims. But she couldn't pull herself totally away from the truth; her description of the driving lesson/road rage had something happening at each of the key points in BM's narrative.

Lots more to include here. Example: Friend of EN said he told them someone was after his mom & sister and next thing you know, Bob says (or maybe it was KM?) that the guys in Audi said "I'm coming after you and your daughter" or something similar. Very bizarre, IMO.

JMO

 

[SeeAlice]

Any surveillance videos will look like the one that was already released. Nighttime surveillance video is pretty worthless, and will not show much. Also I doubt their were many dog walkers, trash putter-outers, nosey neighbors, or motorists out at 11PM. If there were any, they would have called 911 themselves. There will probably just be people who heard gunshots.

The other stuff is what will be important.

Any redlight cams used in Vegas? Or auto tag or toll sticker readers?

 

[sonjay]

Lots more to include here. Example: Friend of EN said he told them someone was after his mom & sister and next thing you know, Bob says (or maybe it was KM?) that the guys in Audi said "I'm coming after you and your daughter" or something similar. Very bizarre, IMO.

JMO

Interesting, I hadn't made that connection.

I think the first we heard about the threat against mother and daughter was from RM -- who of course could only have gotten it from KM (if her story were true). But it's also in the arrest affidavit, so she definitely told police about that threat.

I continue to believe her story was a complete fabrication. Given all the matching points between her story of her car chase and BM's story of his car chase, I tend to think she was in the car with BM (and mom? probably). It's just that she morphed the entire encounter into something else that was completely different from what really happened. IMO, JMO, MOO and all that jazz.

 

[SeeAlice]

Interesting, I hadn't made that connection.

I think the first we heard about the threat against mother and daughter was from RM -- who of course could only have gotten it from KM (if her story were true). But it's also in the arrest affidavit, so she definitely told police about that threat.

I continue to believe her story was a complete fabrication. Given all the matching points between her story of her car chase and BM's story of his car chase, I tend to think she was in the car with BM (and mom? probably). It's just that she morphed the entire encounter into something else that was completely different from what really happened. IMO, JMO, MOO and all that jazz.

I don't know what all she stated to police or to her father but I sure hope she has a darned good reason for "elaborating" so many of the details. I can't think of one though.

 

[newone]

Lots more to include here. Example: Friend of EN said he told them someone was after his mom & sister and next thing you know, Bob says (or maybe it was KM?) that the guys in Audi said "I'm coming after you and your daughter" or something similar. Very bizarre, IMO.

JMO

early on in this case, I was wondering if that the was the ''hood'' phrase of the week....and it seemed odd to me that KM & TM heard that --- it's ''usually'' something guys say to other guys -- ((in my limited experience)) MOO

a phrase right up there with ''I know where you live" as intimidation ((ironically seems that was a concern too expressed by all and sundry in the M house))....just seems like ''street'' talk to me MOO

 

[SeeAlice]

Even if the Audi driver was the one driving/chasing, EN was the one who fired the shots, that is why someone is dead and now we have all this mess to deal with. EN pulled the trigger, he didn't have to but he did and not only once but twice and 22 rounds were fired at the home. Did he have to do that? NO!!! After the 1st shooting the Audi didn't need to go back to finish it, but they did, driver and passenger. EN doesn't get a free pass because he wasn't the driver, he was the shooter. The Audi driver doesn't get a free pass because he was the one who drove to the Meyers house, he didn't have to do that either.

That "22 shots" thing bothers me, especially if they were all from a .45 caliber gun, as reported.

I hate to even mention this but sometime before 2/20, it was reported that BM had a .22 caliber handgun originally it had been a shotgun and subsequently became a 9 mm. I'm looking for a link regarding the .22 but with BM's age being 22 (which somehow began as 23...) Argh.

IIRC, in the probable cause statement, ZA or KK told police EN put one .45 cartidge in his gun before the shots were fired at the intersection and then replaced it with another cartridge in as the Audi turned onto Mt. Shasta. Not sure what to think about that part.

(Sorry no exact quotes and links included. My posts vanish from the reply box almost every time I click on a different tab to search or read or copy & paste. It's driving me nuts so please excuse any attitude my posts may convey.)

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm not bothered by EN saying he fired 22 rounds and evidence showing fewer. There could be cartridge casings inside the Audi, he could have thought he fired 22 rounds, or he could be exaggerating.

I'm bothered by the 9mm cartridge casing found in TM's car as stated in the warrant:

"One unfired 9mm cartridge casing was also recovered from the passenger seat of the victim's vehicle."

I talked to my husband about this. He says a cartridge is the entire bullet with casing--unfired. A bullet is without casing---fired. A cartridge casing is just the casing without the bullet---fired. But the warrant says the 9mm cartridge casing is unfired.

My husband says a cartridge casing would be in the car for only two reasons:

1)---A cartridge fell while loading a magazine.
2)---A cartridge jammed or misfired and the shooter ejected it to load another cartridge from the magazine.

He says scenario #1 doesn't make sense because the magazine would already be loaded prior to shooting. In other words, since the gun uses a magazine, there's no reason to load bullets into a magazine while in the car. The magazine would be loaded ahead of time.

He says scenario #2 is most likely what happened.

Let's consider my husband an impartial expert since he has NO IDEA why I asked him these questions about bullets and cartridge casings. He knows nothing about the Tammy Meyers case. He has never heard of it. He doesn't know I'm try to "solve" it. I have said zero to him about this case. When I asked him these questions, he had no idea why and still doesn't. LOL

Scenario #2 tells ME something. A misfired 9mm cartridge in the passenger seat of TM's car indicates to me that BM tried to fire his weapon while he was in the car.

Referring back to BM's statement in the warrant, he said he ducked down during the first shooting, his mother backed up when the shooting stopped, and they fled to the house. Once they're at the house, he is already outside of the vehicle trying to get TM out of the driver's side when the Audi arrived.

My theory, opinion, logical conclusion:

BM didn't just brandish his firearm during the chase, he actually tried to fire the 9mm at Villa Monterey before EN started shooting back. BM's weapon misfired or jammed, BM ejected the bullet casing to load another bullet from the magazine, but he had to duck before he could fire again because EN started firing back.

 

[SeeAlice]

I would've paid good money to watch that:

Four people — Brandon Meyers, Crystal Meyers, Khatelyn Krisztain and homicide detective Clifford Mogg — testified Thursday before the grand jury, according to the indictment.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/teen-indicted-slaying-tammy-meyers

Wonder why they didn't call Zack?

 

[charminglane]

Also, green Buick could have unfired ammo rolling around inside from past adventures.

 

[SeeAlice]

I'm not bothered by EN saying he fired 22 rounds and evidence showing fewer. There could be cartridge casings inside the Audi, he could have thought he fired 22 rounds, or he could be exaggerating.

I'm bothered by the 9mm cartridge casing found in TM's car as stated in the warrant:

"One unfired 9mm cartridge casing was also recovered from the passenger seat of the victim's vehicle."

I talked to my husband about this. He says a cartridge is the entire bullet with casing--unfired. A bullet is without casing---fired. A cartridge casing is just the casing without the bullet---fired. But the warrant says the 9mm cartridge casing is unfired.

My husband says a cartridge casing would be on the floor of the car for only two reasons:

1)---A cartridge fell while loading a magazine.
2)---A cartridge jammed or misfired and the shooter ejected it to load another cartridge from the magazine.

He says scenario #1 doesn't make sense because the magazine would already be loaded prior to shooting. In other words, since the gun uses a magazine, there's no reason to load bullets into a magazine while in the car. The magazine would be loaded ahead of time.

He says scenario #2 is most likely what happened.

Let's consider my husband an impartial expert since he has NO IDEA why I asked him these questions about bullets and cartridge casings. He knows nothing about the Tammy Meyers case. He has never heard of it. He doesn't know I'm try to "solve" it. I have said zero to him about this case. When I asked him these questions, he had no idea why and still doesn't. LOL

Scenario #2 tells ME something. A misfired 9mm cartridge in the passenger seat of TM's car indicates to me that BM tried to fire his weapon while he was in the car.

Referring back to BM's statement in the warrant, he said he ducked down during the shooting, his mother backed up when the shooting stopped, and they fled to the house. Once they're at the house, he is already outside of the vehicle trying to get TM out of the driver's side when the Audi arrived.

My theory, opinion, logical conclusion:

BM didn't just brandish his firearm during the chase, he actually tried to fire the 9mm at Villa Monterey before EN started shooting back. BM's weapon misfired or jammed, BM ejected the bullet casing to load another bullet from the magazine, but he had to duck before he could fire again because EN started firing back.

Tell your husband thanks!

The green car would have been processed for evidence immediately, right?

The intersection where gunfight #1 occurred would not have been treated as a crime scene, nor would anyone know to look for evidence there, I think. Wasn't it several days before police finally learned that BM had gotten in the car with his mom to hunt down alleged road rager? (Versus firing from the front door of the Meyers home as was originally reported.) If that is the case, there was plenty of time & opportunity to add or remove evidence from that scene.

JMO

 

[Miss Muffet]

Also, green Buick could have unfired ammo rolling around inside from past adventures.

True. I think that scenario is unlikely. It wasn't on the floor. It was found on the passenger SEAT. Even if it was on the floor, I'd still think it's an unlikely explanation.

Tell your husband thanks!

The green car would have been processed for evidence immediately, right?

The intersection where gunfight #1 occurred would not have been treated as a crime scene, nor would anyone know to look for evidence there, I think. Wasn't it several days before police finally learned that BM had gotten in the car with his mom to hunt down alleged road rager? (Versus firing from the front door of the Meyers home as was originally reported.) If that is the case, there was plenty of time & opportunity to add or remove evidence from that scene.

Yes, the green car would have processed immediately. It's possible the first scene could have been tampered with if LE didn't know about it for a few days. I'm on the fence about when LE found out. I think LE knew about it all along. We won't find out until the trial.

 

[sonjay]

I would've paid good money to watch that:

Four people — Brandon Meyers, Crystal Meyers, Khatelyn Krisztain and homicide detective Clifford Mogg — testified Thursday before the grand jury, according to the indictment.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/teen-indicted-slaying-tammy-meyers

Wonder why they didn't call Zack?

Both the Meyers kids testified? Oh, boy, so would I have paid money to see that. I wonder what version of their story the Grand Jury heard.

 

[sonjay]

Also, green Buick could have unfired ammo rolling around inside from past adventures.

I've got unfired ammo in 2 or 3 different calibers rolling around in my car.

I better hope I'm never involved in a criminal case involving firearms.

 

[sonjay]

My husband says a cartridge casing would be in the car for only two reasons:

1)---A cartridge fell while loading a magazine.
2)---A cartridge jammed or misfired and the shooter ejected it to load another cartridge from the magazine.

Or BM didn't realize he already had a round in the chamber, and he racked the slide to chamber a round -- thus ejecting the unfired round that was already in the chamber.

IMO, #1 is a plausible possibility if the magazine wasn't already loaded when he grabbed it from granny's drawers. Grab the gun -- oh, crap, empty magazine -- grab a box of ammo or a handful of ammo and take the gun, the magazine and ammo with you in the car. Load the magazine while mom's driving.