NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7

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So why did you change your mind about this? I'm reading it the same way you did -- there's no "water town" on Long Island.

I read it as MBB's sister saying it was "a water town" as in a town by the water... which doesn't really narrow it down since LI is, obviously, filled with "water towns."
 
Could you elaborate on the significance of this? Most of the vehicles we've looked at have been some sort of state or municipal vehicle, or private trucks. We considered a business vehicle, but those could be expected to have a more prominent logo. You're saying we can eliminate a business vehicle entirely?

Does that mean if you live in one of those housing developments in the area, you can't have a plumber or an exterminator come to your house to do work?

Thanks in advance.

My ex had to use a personal vehicle when he had work out there, not the commercial plated van. I can't imagine that he couldn't and others could but then I am wondering how they would get oil or anything. Commercial vehicles are not allowed on Pkwys here because the bridges are so low and lanes are narrow. Let me do more research but commercial trucks would prob have to be monitored.
 
Let's stop and review.

MW: Last logged in to CL at 12:50 am on June 6, 2010 (Sunday). Last seen on security camera at 1:30 am that morning, walking away from the Holiday Inn Express in Happauge. Her boyfriend, Akeem Cruz, was apparently not at the hotel during this time. Sometime after MW went missing, her mother recieves a call at her place of employment from someone claiming to be LE wanting to talk about her daughter's case. She is convinced this call came from the SK and not LE.

MB: Last seen on July 10, 2009 (Sunday) sitting on a curb outside her apartment in The Bronx. According to her "boyfriend", she had a date lined up that night for $1000 in LI, but wouldn't tell him with whom. According to the "boyfriend", MB regularly hung out in LI with a girlfriend who was also an escort (wonder where SHE is now), and had an older man in LI who she was chummy with, and often hung out at his house. MB's sister recieved taunting calls from the SK, and if we are to believe MB's boyfriend, he also recieved taunting calls. Interesting to note that the boyfriend says the caller appeared to be drunk. ( thinking back to a message board comment left on a review site for someone interviewed in this case.)

ALC: Last seen leaving her home in West Babylon on Thursday, Sept.2, 2010. (3 months after MW disappeared). She had booked a date for $1500. She didn't tell her roomate or her sister who she had the date with (Interestingly, her sister believed ALC was going to enter rehab that weekend). The client called several times throughout the day, with the last calling coming in at 10:30 pm. According to DS, ALC had recieved a call a few weeks prior to going missing at about 1 am, from a john wanting her to meet him at the same Express Holiday Inn (Happauge) where MW had last been seen. From the article, it's difficult to tell if ALC actually went to this hotel, but my guess is that she did.

MBB: Last seen July 9, 2007 (Monday). That evening she called friends from NYPA Bus Terminal, saying she had been robbed of her days earnings and was coming home. She never got on the bus. Police subsequently track her cell phone activity to a cell tower in LI.

My info on Shannan is very minimal, apart from the info about the night she went missing. If anyone can fill in the gaps, please do.

SG: Books a date with JB at his home in the gated community in Oak Beach on May 1, 2010 (Saturday). She brings along a driver for security (unusual given that the other 4 victims went alone and were secretive about the date). She arrives sometime around 2 am., stays for about 3 hours, and then for some reason calls 911 from the house. She then flees the house, and knocks on neighbors doors begging for help. She shows up at GC's, he opens the door for her, and says he's calling 911. SG flees. GC follows her outside, sees an asian man in a black SUV (matches description of her driver) looking for SG, and asks what he is doing. The driver says he's looking for a girl who ran out of a party upset. SG is never seen again. The following day, SG's mother recieves a call from someone claiming to be Dr. PH. The caller says SG stayed at his house that night, and that she wanted out of the life and he was treating her at his rehab facility. When LE question Dr. PH about this, he adamantly denies it, stating that he's never even seen SG. LE question JB, I assume search his house that morning, but don't know this for a fact, and go on their merry way. When the bodies of the 4 other victims are discovered off Ocean Parkway in December, LE returns to JB's home, does a thorough search of his home, impounds his vehicle, but they turn up nothing.

(end of review)
 
Good Morning all! How convenient for the killer that no commercial vehicles are allowed on the parkway. It lessons his chances of being seen. He also probably knows this too! Thanks for checking for verication on this,
silversurvivor.

wm

MOO
 
I read it as MBB's sister saying it was "a water town" as in a town by the water... which doesn't really narrow it down since LI is, obviously, filled with "water towns."

I assumed she meant "water tower"......
 
Thanks for the review Kat! Very helpful as I am having a hard time keeping up and finding all the posts since I've had holiday company.lol!

IMO, you should post this timeline on the media thread where we can find it and add to it as needed. Pretty please?;)

wm
 
Could you elaborate on the significance of this? Most of the vehicles we've looked at have been some sort of state or municipal vehicle, or private trucks. We considered a business vehicle, but those could be expected to have a more prominent logo. You're saying we can eliminate a business vehicle entirely?

Does that mean if you live in one of those housing developments in the area, you can't have a plumber or an exterminator come to your house to do work?

Thanks in advance.

You're not allowed on the parkway with commercial plates unless you're doing work in the immediate area.

I'm trying to find a picture of the sign

I did find this on wikipedia
Because of its southern location, Ocean Parkway is one of the few parkways in the entire state whose entire length allows truck traffic, albeit for local deliveries only. This is because an exemption to the "No Trucks" regulation was made for any length of parkway that lies south of either Merrick Road or Montauk Highway (Nassau County Route 27A and New York State Route 27A). There are no other truck routes south of this route, making the parkways the default route for deliveries to the beaches.
 
I think it's the same sk from Manorville to AC to Gilgo. MO's do change. He first began with dismemberment. That takes a lot of work and cleaning and he is getting up there in age--or--perhaps his living arrangement has changed and he can no longer dismember like he would like to. He's also getting better with what he does. Whatever you practice--you get good at. His fantasies are evolving and he is doing different things.

I'm not convinced.

I have it set firmly in my mind that the SK of the 4 known victims does not dismember. In my mind, the hunt, the courting, and the moment of their death is what gets him off. Once they are dead, they are no longer of use to him. Once they are dead, they are toys that no longer work, so they are disposed of in the same way one would dispose of broken toys...they are simply tossed in the trash. I think our SK cares VERY much about his real life...how others in that life view him. I don't see him spending one minute entertaining the idea of dismembering his victims. 1). because he would never risk doing anything that might expose him to friends & family, and 2). because I don't think he views these women as worth the time and energy to dismember. Once they are gone, his focus returns to the hunt. JMO

Now, having said all that, I'm more than willing to entertain the notion that I might be wrong about all that, IF there can be any kind of connection established between the Manorville victims and the 4 identified victims on Oak Beach. And I'm actively looking into the murders of other prostitutes dumped in the immediately area, regardless of whether they were strangled or mutilated, because it's an avenue I think we'd stupid to dismiss. But I'm nowhere near convinced this is all the work of one man.

Again, JMO
 
I'm not convinced.

I have it set firmly in my mind that the SK of the 4 known victims does not dismember. In my mind, the hunt, the courting, and the moment of their death is what gets him off. Once they are dead, they are no longer of use to him. Once they are dead, they are toys that no longer work, so they are disposed of in the same way one would dispose of broken toys...they are simply tossed in the trash. I think our SK cares VERY much about his real life...how others in that life view him. I don't see him spending one minute entertaining the idea of dismembering his victims. 1). because he would never risk doing anything that might expose him to friends & family, and 2). because I don't think he views these women as worth the time and energy to dismember. Once they are gone, his focus returns to the hunt. JMO

Now, having said all that, I'm more than willing to entertain the notion that I might be wrong about all that, IF there can be any kind of connection established between the Manorville victims and the 4 identified victims on Oak Beach. And I'm actively looking into the murders of other prostitutes dumped in the immediately area, regardless of whether they were strangled or mutilated, because it's an avenue I think we'd stupid to dismiss. But I'm nowhere near convinced this is all the work of one man.

Again, JMO

I'm sure not every strangled woman, prostitute or not, is a vicitim of the serial killer. For instance, the Papain murder last year sounds very similar, but Chad Johnson has already been arrested. I think he confessed. But you're right, we need to look into it.

Do you think we should look into the ones who were shot, as well? There's at least one I know of that seems to fit except for the cause of death. Of course we aren't privy to the details that let LE link murders, so we're probably missing something that's obvious to them.

Big question, though: Do we know for a fact that the four identified bodies were not dismembered? I didn't think that information had been released. I agree, he's throwing them out like trash, but I don't think he'd be too put off by some of the work involved in getting them ready for disposal. No more than he'd be put off by, say, shoveling stinky stuff out of a stable if that's what he had to do to get it clean.
 
Good Morning all! How convenient for the killer that no commercial vehicles are allowed on the parkway. It lessons his chances of being seen. He also probably knows this too! Thanks for checking for verication on this,
silversurvivor.

wm

MOO

I'm not sure I'm seeing the significance. Probably because I'm getting confused about all this talk of the white utility vehicle parked off the side of the road. I take it you're saying this is significant because, the most likely travellers down Ocean Parkway in the early morning hours would be commercial vehicles, correct? And if they are not allowed on the parkway, our SK pretty much as the road to himself for dumping. Is that the gist?
 
I am considering that IF the cases are connected that a life event (marriage, arrest, birth of child) took place in the SK's life that cause him to adjust to an easier, quicker method of disposal.

This is something that struck me after reading that whole Gary Ridgeway site that I linked up thread. He changed things as time went by.

At this point in time, we have no evidence of any victims during 2008. If there are no victims confirmed missing in 2008 in the second set of remains, then there may be a reason that he was inactive during that time.

Hope this makes sense.

MOO

wm
 
I am considering that IF the cases are connected that a life event (marriage, arrest, birth of child) took place in the SK's life that cause him to adjust to an easier, quicker method of disposal.

This is something that struck me after reading that whole Gary Ridgeway site that I linked up thread. He changed things as time went by.

At this point in time, we have no evidence of any victims during 2008. If there are no victims confirmed missing in 2008 in the second set of remains, then there may be a reason that he was inactive during that time.Hope this makes sense.

MOO

wm

I'm thinking that either he didn't kill anyone in 2008 due to life changes or maybe he decided that he was going to quit while he's ahead and not kill anymore or he did kill but the bodies are in a different dumping ground.

I believe we just haven't found his other dumping ground--yet.
 
I agree with much of what you wrote, the only thing I'll point out is that these johns, much like the girls, are notoriously unreliable. So if a john calls a girl and says he wants to book for 3 days from now, she will almost always not take that seriously. And if the john happens to be serious and calls on that day, she'll arrange or rearrange her schedule to meet. If anyone has signed up for national blacklist, you'll see girls posting that so and so called but never showed, so and so likes to call just to talk to the girls and that's what gets him excited. The only way I can see making a future booking is if the john had a prior relationship with the girl....and that was as you said as well. So it's possible he had seen each girl enough times where he was able to book something a few days in advance.

Additionally, with these new reports coming out and being posted today, it confirms what I thought all along, the SK calls and hires each of these girls with the promise of an overnight date....the easiest way to get a girl to travel long distances and also be very vague with the other ppl in their lives.

I'm willing to bet there are many more CL girls that turned the SK down over the phone, and partly why these girls traveled from all over. It took some work on his part to get girls to travel to him

NJGuy,
Great point about how a John would book normally. I still think I'm looking at this as a saturday night date LOL.
 
I'm not sure I'm seeing the significance. Probably because I'm getting confused about all this talk of the white utility vehicle parked off the side of the road. I take it you're saying this is significant because, the most likely travellers down Ocean Parkway in the early morning hours would be commercial vehicles, correct? And if they are not allowed on the parkway, our SK pretty much as the road to himself for dumping. Is that the gist?

You got it Kat! That is exactly what I was thinking. Since that post, our locals have provided information that commercial vehicles with business in that area are allowed on OP. Sooooo.....

Even if the commercial vehicles do have a permit to use the parkway, they would most likely be using it during normal business hours. I used to own a restaurant on the NC island I live on and was just thinking about all the deliveries I had. The food distributor truck would come early am....The beer truck in the afternooon, the wine distributor between 3-5, etc.

wm
 
I'm sure not every strangled woman, prostitute or not, is a vicitim of the serial killer. For instance, the Papain murder last year sounds very similar, but Chad Johnson has already been arrested. I think he confessed. But you're right, we need to look into it.

Do you think we should look into the ones who were shot, as well? There's at least one I know of that seems to fit except for the cause of death. Of course we aren't privy to the details that let LE link murders, so we're probably missing something that's obvious to them.

Big question, though: Do we know for a fact that the four identified bodies were not dismembered? I didn't think that information had been released. I agree, he's throwing them out like trash, but I don't think he'd be too put off by some of the work involved in getting them ready for disposal. No more than he'd be put off by, say, shoveling stinky stuff out of a stable if that's what he had to do to get it clean.

I could see that...IF he had to. But I see no reason why he WOULD have to. There is no mention of dismemberment with the 4 identified bodies, so I assume they were intact. If that's the case, he had no problem concealing and dumping those bodies whole. I don't think he's concerned that the bodies left intact might somehow connect the victims to him...they were prostitutes he hired, not people connected to him in familial or social circles. And I don't think he would dismember for the thrill of doing it. So, I'm having a really hard time seeing dismemberment in any scenario with this guy.

Of course, it's also possible that I have tunnel vision because I'm convinced that I have this guy pegged. And that's why I'm willing to consider the Manorville bodies, and the body found in Hemstead (along with a few others). Regardless of what I THINK I know about our SK, I have to be willing to at least consider that I really DON'T know.

Over all, the unidentified bodies that I'm willing to consider have to have at least some links to the Oak Beach murders. I do think he preys soley on prostitutes, and I do think he operates soley within our loop. This is his comfort zone, I don't think he strays outside of it. As for gunshot victims, I'm definitely not seeing that. If he gets off on the moment of death, he wants that moment to last for as long as possible. A gun would be too quick, too messy, and not personal enough, imo.

Just random thoughts.
 
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