GUILTY NY - Lucas Leonard, 19, beaten to death, brother injured, New Hartford, 11 Oct 2015

[JeannaT]

I really can't understand this. As a Christian myself, I don't see how anyone could read the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and think Jesus taught this. Yet, SO MANY Christians are all about hate, and violent, and beat their children.

What if members of the humane society went home and skinned their animals alive and starved and beat them, and then next week met again to discuss how they are devout members of the humane society, and continued to advocate others to abuse their own animals. Same thing. People who assemble as Christians should be the farthest from doing what these nuts were doing. The farthest.

 

[Indy Anna]

[snipped]

NEW HARTFORD, N.Y. — On Sunday night, toward the end of a daylong church service, Tiffanie Irwin, the pastor at Word of Life Christian Church here, turned to her congregation and made a stunning accusation.

Someone among them, she said, was practicing witchcraft.

Lucas Leonard, a 19-year-old whose family was immersed in Word of Life’s secretive practices, said that he was the one, that he wanted church elders to die and that he had considered making a voodoo doll of a church leader.

[....]

It was not uncommon for church leaders to plant rumors about congregants from the pulpit, several former Word of Life members said, sometimes alleging that a parent had been unfaithful or that a young member had inappropriately touched another child. The rumors were often outlandish and false, the ex-congregants said, but that did not keep them from splitting families apart and spreading fear of the longtime pastor, Jerry Irwin, the family patriarch. Mr. Irwin died several years ago, but the memory of his reprimands remains fresh, former congregants said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/n...eating-new-hartford-police-lucas-leonard.html

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Does not sound like Christianity at all. Rather, a group of mentally unstable people who formed a cult. I know a delusional individual who follows a cult, making outlandish statements and accusations. She misquotes scripture, and if you point that out to her or show her scriptures that contradict her radical views, it doesn't change her thought process whatsoever. I'm not saying that she or the members of this cult are mentally ill; they are simply people who look for ways to control people. It is easier to brain-wash and control a small number of people who are kept isolated from the outside world.

 

[Fairy1]

Has anyone seen a picture of the boy that was murdered? It's as if he never existed.

I won't share my opinion on the "parents" or their "church" here for fear of being banned.....

 

[LietKynes]

news.yahoo.com/photos/person-holds-candle-photos-christopher-leonard-lucas-leonard-photo-010321935.html

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/2...webfeeds/16f242ad50a7692f850f6a7067004e39.jpg

A person holds a candle with a photos of Christopher Leonard and Lucas Leonard, right, pinned to his shirt during a candlelight vigil in honor of the two teenagers brothers,

Not a clear photo and I'm not sure which pic. is Lucas.
I'm guessing they weren't allowed Facebook or any social media contact with the outside world.

This case just freezes my blood -- either that, or makes it boil.
Lots more that I'll refrain from posting.

I hope Christopher can escape them forever and try to heal in body, and just as important -emotionally.

:moo:

 

[MissUnderstood]

Guess they missed the whole thou shalt not kill chapter!!


MOO!!

 

[perfectingpink]

Guess they missed the whole thou shalt not kill chapter!!


MOO!!

I think they missed a whole lot more than that!

 

[Hope4More]

I'm surprised so few WSers are here voicing their disgust and anger.

This is one of the most sickening stories I've read about in a long time. The parents, the sister, and everyone else who beat and whipped that young innocent to death should all be charged with murder.

And that "holy" man who peered through the window, witnessed the murder in progress and yet did nothing? He should be charged as an accomplice to murder. And may he be haunted to the day he dies (and beyond) for not having basic human decency, much less anything holier than that.

 

[Hope4More]

Emotional/psychological prisons can be far more confining that bars and chains. Pretty clearly her attorney is attempting to portray her as just a victim. However, that could in fact be the case. Hallmarks of cultish behavior include extreme isolation, distrust of any and all outsiders, following without question the dictates of a charismatic/controllinig leader. People's heads get re-arranged and they make decisions based on the internal logic of the cult.

I'm not ready to give mom a pass at this point. But, I am willing to hear her story.

Heard her story. She helped beat and whip her own child to death over 6 hours, and attacked her surviving son for hours as well.

I don't care whether or not her head was "rearranged." Unless she is found clinically to be a raving lunatic, no pass for her from me.

 

[Tillicum]

Christopher Leonard, 17, said he was punched in the stomach by a fellow church member. Then his parents, his half sister and other congregants delivered a beating that racked his whole body, until he was taken to another room with earplugs and earmuffs to keep him from hearing what was going on around him, he said.

"It hurt," he said, "everywhere."

When he was finally brought back to the sanctuary, he saw his 19-year-old brother Lucas collapse on the floor, moaning — and, then, not breathing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-recounts-deadly-beating-inside-secretive-church-n448746

 

[borndem]

By Crimesider Staff AP October 21, 2015, 4:26 PM
Teen testifies against sister in fatal N.Y. church beating

The 17-year-old who survived an alleged hours-long beating inside a New Hartford, New York, church a little over two weeks ago appeared in court Wednesday and said his parents and half-sister whipped him about the arms, legs, back and genitals.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-testifies-against-sister-in-fatal-new-york-church-beating/

SMH

Hi folks -- another sad chapter...

 

[Donjeta]

Oh it was the other beaten brother who noticed Lucas wasn't breathing.

The holy members of God's inquisition squad didn't even bother to check on their victim.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Heard her story. She helped beat and whip her own child to death over 6 hours, and attacked her surviving son for hours as well.

I don't care whether or not her head was "rearranged." Unless she is found clinically to be a raving lunatic, no pass for her from me.

Like I said--I'm not ready to hand out any passes. But, I am intensely interested in the process by which a mother arrives at such behavior. End of the day, I think that there are places where it becomes difficult to distinguish victims from perps. There is always the question of why people do not simply walk away? What keeps them there? What blinds them to the obvious ongoing attacks on individuals?

 

[Margo/Mom]

Christopher Leonard, 17, said he was punched in the stomach by a fellow church member. Then his parents, his half sister and other congregants delivered a beating that racked his whole body, until he was taken to another room with earplugs and earmuffs to keep him from hearing what was going on around him, he said.

"It hurt," he said, "everywhere."

When he was finally brought back to the sanctuary, he saw his 19-year-old brother Lucas collapse on the floor, moaning — and, then, not breathing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-recounts-deadly-beating-inside-secretive-church-n448746

I recall that the rescuers had difficulty locating him. Said he was not hiding, but was "not forthcoming."

 

[Margo/Mom]

I really can't understand this. As a Christian myself, I don't see how anyone could read the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and think Jesus taught this. Yet, SO MANY Christians are all about hate, and violent, and beat their children.

What if members of the humane society went home and skinned their animals alive and starved and beat them, and then next week met again to discuss how they are devout members of the humane society, and continued to advocate others to abuse their own animals. Same thing. People who assemble as Christians should be the farthest from doing what these nuts were doing. The farthest.

Sad, very sad.

What is most sad, in terms of Christianity is not only that this kind of (bad/wrong/messed up/evil--cannot find the appropriate word) behavior poses as a Church, but rather the less obvious mis-representations of Gospel masquerading (in the minds of believers as well as others) as Church and God's will. I am thinking of people like the Stanley family--where a possibly over-zealous patriarch has apparently tip-toed over into the land of delusional paranoia and turned it into a philosophy of child-rearing, and we allow it to be justified as freedom of religion. There are still a good many folks willing to stand up and cheer--demanding that the government stop trying to protect his children from things like being hit, poisoned or denied an adequate education. Why--because God told him to.

Not only are there folks of a political bent willing to grant him the right to such behavior--calling it freedom of religion, but there are others willing to reject religion/Christianity/Constitutional protections of religious liberty, because this is all they see of religion.

 

[Indy Anna]

I recall that the rescuers had difficulty locating him. Said he was not hiding, but was "not forthcoming."

The young man was likely scared to death of his "parents" and the other "church" members. They had come close to beating him to death, he witnessed the death of his brother and likely thought they would come looking for him to "finish him off." It is normal for a victim of abuse to want to protect their abuser(s) out of self-preservation.

 

[Fairy1]

Like I said--I'm not ready to hand out any passes. But, I am intensely interested in the process by which a mother arrives at such behavior. End of the day, I think that there are places where it becomes difficult to distinguish victims from perps. There is always the question of why people do not simply walk away? What keeps them there? What blinds them to the obvious ongoing attacks on individuals?

I understand where you're coming from. However, I recall one article (can't find it now) where her attorney said she was too "timid" to stop the beatings. Timid? That's something I would associate with speaking in front of people or mingling with others at a party. Not something that would prevent you from allowing people to beat your own child to death.

Ironically, the only circumstance I could ever envision my own self literally beating someone to death is if they were trying to harm my kids. The maternal instinct is so primal and should really overpower any other instinct in a mother. I know here at WS we see so many examples where that isn't the case. But it should be.

 

[Hope4More]

Like I said--I'm not ready to hand out any passes. But, I am intensely interested in the process by which a mother arrives at such behavior. End of the day, I think that there are places where it becomes difficult to distinguish victims from perps. There is always the question of why people do not simply walk away? What keeps them there? What blinds them to the obvious ongoing attacks on individuals?

I understand your intellectual curiosity. In this case IMO it seems clear that the "mother" participated in the beating not because she was "timid" but because she preferred hurting her son over being chastised herself by the cult's leaders.

I don't see her as a victim of any kind. She chose to remain in the cult, and far more terrible, day after day year after year she chose to subject her children to the hatefulness and fear the cult used to control members.

Why was she willing to do so? I don't know, but frankly neither do I care. I'll give her a single iota of benefit of the doubt if we learn she too regularly was beaten and whipped by the cult. Oh how I doubt that.

The line crossed for me is her passive acceptance (best case) of child abuse, whether they were her kids or not, and I'm talking about before she took active part in beating and whipping her own children for hours and hours and hours.

 

[Donjeta]

In a statement made to the authorities, Daniel Irwin, a Word of Life deacon and brother of Tiffanie Irwin, said that on Sunday evening, Ms. Irwin had accused someone in the church of practicing witchcraft.
According to Mr. Irwin’s statement, Lucas Leonard admitted that he wanted church elders to die and that he had considered making a voodoo doll of a church leader.

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The police and prosecutors have said Lucas Leonard wanted to leave the church, and have repeatedly rejected assertions that he or his brother had been punished for molesting children at the church, something Daniel Irwin also suggested Mr. Leonard had confessed to in his statements to the authorities.

New Hartford police have dismissed both the suggestions of witchcraft and of molestation as rumors “instigated by a member or members of the Word of Life Christian Church.”

On Wednesday, Ms. Lupi did not ask what Ms. Irwin’s questions or the brothers’ actions had been, and she successfully objected to a defense question regarding their nature. But Christopher said he and his brother had reluctantly answered some of them and refused to answer others before being attacked.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/n...-word-of-life-church-that-killed-brother.html

 

[Margo/Mom]

I understand your intellectual curiosity. In this case IMO it seems clear that the "mother" participated in the beating not because she was "timid" but because she preferred hurting her son over being chastised herself by the cult's leaders.

I don't see her as a victim of any kind. She chose to remain in the cult, and far more terrible, day after day year after year she chose to subject her children to the hatefulness and fear the cult used to control members.

Why was she willing to do so? I don't know, but frankly neither do I care. I'll give her a single iota of benefit of the doubt if we learn she too regularly was beaten and whipped by the cult. Oh how I doubt that.

The line crossed for me is her passive acceptance (best case) of child abuse, whether they were her kids or not, and I'm talking about before she took active part in beating and whipping her own children for hours and hours and hours.

Well, there's fear of chastisement, and then there's fear of everlasting torture in a lake of fire--or whatever. I recently read an autobiography of a young woman who was booted out of Westboro Baptist after having been brought there by her parents as a young teen. Her father is still pretty high up in the church org (such as it is--they are a very small group). She got in trouble (and at this time she was a well-educated adult, working as a nurse) for emailing a man outside the fold and was put out of her parents house (where she had been expected to live--contributing substantially of her income).

One of her first reactions--along with having to find a place to live and negotiate a work situation in which she was in constant contact with another Westboro member, previously her closest friend, now labelling her an evil person, a traitor--was extreme panic attacks in which she was certain that she was now a lost soul, bound for hell, with no way out.

All of which is to say that cults are able to bring about some really serious behavioral manifestations based on isolation, fear, and development of an in-cult logic that cannot be questioned. This woman is going to have to face up to what it is that she did--without a doubt. But I don't think it is as simple as she was just too timid to speak up. I think that she was more likely a true believer--facing, in her mind, a test of her faith.

The question for a court to answer will now be, what do we do with such a person?

 

[LietKynes]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-32...cult-church-reveals-past-paranoid-pastor.html
Inside the cult where teenager was beaten to death and 'paranoid' founder exploited followers and took their cash (then vacationed in Italy)
Smdh Why am I not surprised ? A charlatan, this Jerry Irwin.

It's begiining to look as if the tipping point that started the beatings was that Lucas and Christopher wanted to leave the "church".
Thus far, all we have is one of the Irwins' stating that Lucas had practiced witchcraft and had considered making a voodoo doll.
SO WHAT ? After what they did to these young men, who wouldn't want to poke a few pins in one of these dolls -- not like it would harm anyone who participated in the "punishment". And there's no evidence Lucas did this. It seems he just wanted out -- how is that a crime to his 'church' ?

From above link : Bruce and Deborah are good people but they were mixed up. They were brought to the point where anger was built up inside of them and they were trying to please the leadership

Have to disagree about the "good people" part.
I would never lay a hand on my children. Bruce and Deborah should have taken their children and fled ; fgs !

:moo: