NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[Kimster]

Lots of guests this morning.

Many of our guests enter through the front page of the site. Let's keep praying that one of them has that tip we need! lease:

BTW, so far 155 members have visited this page. I don't get a count on guests, so the sky's the limit on how many have read about Sylvia! :grouphug:

 

[Dushi]

Yes-that is a distinct possibility. And may not have known how to deal with it. Suppose she didn't get out of the car, but he told her to get out? He wouldn't tell anyone that-still, what about those glasses...?

Dang those glasses
Its one of the things that there seems absolutely no explanation for

If she threw them and left the car, why didn't he return them to someone
They were prescription glasses. Did he not consider that she may need them when she returned home that night?
In everything i have read, I do not recall hearing they were broken, just thrown against the dash . .

 

[rosemadderlake]

Its rather difficult to wrap your head around isn't it.
You would think he would be feeling the same sense of loss as Sylvias family.
Often people who are suffering the same loss cling to each other for support.

But, he chose rude.
Was he rude to the family before that night?
It seems and this is JMO, that he chose to cut ties and wipe the whole thing from his life.
I don't understand how a person could do that when all appearances suggest he planned to spend his life with this woman.

Do you think he was overcome with guilt?
He admitted to leaving her.. alone.. on the street
Whether he did or not, we don't know, but lets suggest we believe that for a moment.
Would the guilt be so great that he could not face family and friends who loved her?

:moo:

I wonder how others felt about the BF/F before she went missing. The air of superiority, maybe some (or many) did not think he was so great for Sylvia. --Not the right man for her even if she was over the moon about him... And, understandably there would be those who held him responsible for abandoning her that night (at the very least). I can only imagine the panic and complete fear that ensued after she went missing.

bbm: He is aware of this too. And his guilt would be profound if his story is true. So would the sense of having broken her family's heart. And if his mother was having a breakdown about it I can only imagine what the scene was like in his family.

His answer of LE is on the case makes me think he was interviewed after her disappearance and since he did not have the answers, and was not willing to share details about their relationship, or that he may have been a complete jerk to her in the argument, perhaps his guilt went to anger... imo

I keep returning to Sylvia's state of mind that evening - what would cause her to bolt?

 

[Dushi]

I wonder how others felt about the BF/F before she went missing. The air of superiority, maybe some (or many) did not think he was so great for Sylvia. --Not the right man for her even if she was over the moon about him... And, understandably there would be those who held him responsible for abandoning her that night (at the very least). I can only imagine the panic and complete fear that ensued after she went missing.

bbm: He is aware of this too. And his guilt would be profound if his story is true. So would the sense of having broken her family's heart. And if his mother was having a breakdown about it I can only imagine what the scene was like in his family.

His answer of LE is on the case makes me think he was interviewed after her disappearance and since he did not have the answers, and was not willing to share details about their relationship, or that he may have been a complete jerk to her in the argument, perhaps his guilt went to anger... imo

I keep returning to Sylvia's state of mind that evening - what would cause her to bolt?

I think MMQC said that before going out with BF/F, she and Sylvia spent the afternoon together doing normal things.

If she was bothered by something so much that she fled that evening.. I think her best friend would have sensed that Sylvia was very troubled

:moo:

 

[Dushi]

I messed up that quote

 

[rosemadderlake]

I wonder how others felt about the BF/F before she went missing. The air of superiority, maybe some (or many) did not think he was so great for Sylvia. --Not the right man for her even if she was over the moon about him... And, understandably there would be those who held him responsible for abandoning her that night (at the very least). I can only imagine the panic and complete fear that ensued after she went missing.

bbm: He is aware of this too. And his guilt would be profound if his story is true. So would the sense of having broken her family's heart. And if his mother was having a breakdown about it I can only imagine what the scene was like in his family.

His answer of LE is on the case makes me think he was interviewed after her disappearance and since he did not have the answers, and was not willing to share details about their relationship, or that he may have been a complete jerk to her in the argument, perhaps his guilt went to anger... imo

I keep returning to Sylvia's state of mind that evening - what would cause her to bolt?[/QUOTE]





I think MMQC said that before going out with BF/F, she and Sylvia spent the afternoon together doing normal things.

If she was bothered by something so much that she fled that evening.. I think her best friend would have sensed that Sylvia was very troubled

:moo:

Closest girlfriends are the shelter in the storm... --I think this has more to do with the men in Sylvia's life. And bolting is not a planned thing but there were very tumultuous events that preceded this night, and another argument that night, and so something sent her running, if that account is true. imo.

 

[Jmoose]

I wonder how others felt about the BF/F before she went missing. The air of superiority, maybe some (or many) did not think he was so great for Sylvia. --Not the right man for her even if she was over the moon about him... And, understandably there would be those who held him responsible for abandoning her that night (at the very least). I can only imagine the panic and complete fear that ensued after she went missing.

bbm: He is aware of this too. And his guilt would be profound if his story is true. So would the sense of having broken her family's heart. And if his mother was having a breakdown about it I can only imagine what the scene was like in his family.

His answer of LE is on the case makes me think he was interviewed after her disappearance and since he did not have the answers, and was not willing to share details about their relationship, or that he may have been a complete jerk to her in the argument, perhaps his guilt went to anger... imo

I keep returning to Sylvia's state of mind that evening - what would cause her to bolt?

This makes a lot of sense-possibly once he was interviewed, he may have felt there was nothing to add, and he may have had legal advice telling him mot to discuss it with anyone else. But where did those glasses go, and why treat Sylvia's family and friend with such rudeness? He must have been such an insensitive, oafish clod to react that way. I would be a little happier if we knew that the police had interviewed him, and were genuinely satisfied with the information that he served up. And also, if we knew that he gave the glasses to Sylvia's parents-that would show that he knew she would be coming home and would need them (thanks, Dushi).

 

[Dushi]

Closest girlfriends are the shelter in the storm... --I think this has more to do with the men in Sylvia's life. And bolting is not a planned thing but there were very tumultuous events that preceded this night, and another argument that night, and so something sent her running, if that account is true. imo.

You may be completely right
I am just not there yet.. the running away
If thats what you mean, running away from her life

I think that the fight with her Dad a short time before had her on edge, embarrassed in front of her peers etc. The evening with BF/F went wrong at some point for some reason
I do not know what happened, but if she left the car, I do not feel that she ran from her life into a new one

And I would love to be mistaken


ROSE


I may be misunderstanding your thoughts
When you say bolted, do you mean from the car and something happened later to make her disappear?
Or are you thinking ran away?

 

[rosemadderlake]

You may be completely right
I am just not there yet.. the running away
If thats what you mean, running away from her life

I think that the fight with her Dad a short time before had her on edge, embarrassed in front of her peers etc. The evening with BF/F went wrong at some point for some reason
I do not know what happened, but if she left the car, I do not feel that she ran from her life into a new one

And I would love to be mistaken


ROSE


I may be misunderstanding your thoughts
When you say bolted, do you mean from the car and something happened later to make her disappear?
Or are you thinking ran away?

You know so much could have happened...

But the sense I get is the "flight response" followed by outburst at the party but also not talking, not apologizing, maybe has a few issues with the BF/F too, her emotions are on edge yet contained. How did she and her BF/F resolve previous fights? If he was superior and her father inaccessible maybe she flew the coop. But so much could have happened. This is where her contacts, groups, sororities, other men (she's a really attractive woman) are important. Did she find shelter for a while and then something happened before she could get home?

MMQC is like part of her family. Maybe too close to part of the situation. Sylvia's thinking is fragmented, compartmentalized, maybe. What are the mindsets of emotional meltdowns?

 

[MMQC]

I wonder if EL ever spoke to boyfriends parents
This couple was engaged!
BF/F parents must have left a loss as well (or you would think)
Did they ever speak to Sylvias parents and express concern or a caring attitude?

Don't know. Maybe someone out there has the answer to that one.

 

[MMQC]

Just sitting here wondering how someone could just drop off the face of the earth to never be heard from again....

She would not have had a clue as to what to do. After SL went missing I had a big blow up with my parents. And I was the bold one of us two. I sat in the parking lot of the All night grocery store because I was afraid to go any place else. At least there were people coming and going and there were lights. So again my mind wanders to a sad, sad dark place. So much time inbetween 1975 and 2013. Life is surely different now.

What would be the state of mind behind SL if she just wanted to start a new life?

 

[Dushi]

Just sitting here wondering how someone could just drop off the face of the earth to never be heard from again....

She would not have had a clue as to what to do. After SL went missing I had a big blow up with my parents. And I was the bold one of us two. I sat in the parking lot of the All night grocery store because I was afraid to go any place else. At least there were people coming and going and there were lights. So again my mind wanders to a sad, sad dark place. So much time inbetween 1975 and 2013. Life is surely different now.

What would be the state of mind behind SL if she just wanted to start a new life?

I expect it would be a very difficult thing to do, start all over.
As you mentioned, Sylvia was not an experienced woman of the world.

I know there are young people who leave home and do what they must to survive.
I understand their torture.

But Sylvias life was not that different from most young woman at that time, IMO.

No drugs or abuse AFAIK

Somewhat restricted by parents wishes?
The unknown of what the future would bring?

I would have to ask the same question... what would be the state of mind?

I am not that far from her age, I remember the times well and as long as i lived in my Mothers house, I followed her rules

 

[Jmoose]

I expect it would be a very difficult thing to do, start all over.
As you mentioned, Sylvia was not an experienced woman of the world.

I know there are young people who leave home and do what they must to survive.
I understand their torture.

But Sylvias life was not that different from most young woman at that time, IMO.

No drugs or abuse AFAIK

Somewhat restricted by parents wishes?
The unknown of what the future would bring?

I would have to ask the same question... what would be the state of mind?

I am not that far from her age, I remember the times well and as long as i lived in my Mothers house, I followed her rules

I think we all, or most of us who are 50 and older lived somewhat the same way. I had a curfew of 11 pm, like my 3 sisters, but my 2 brothers did not. It was pretty restrictive, and my parents were and are alcoholics. I never really thought about leaving and not looking back, and never contacting my family again, but I have a pretty high pain threshold. Maybe Sylvia's circumstances were worse than mine, or maybe her tolerance level is lower-I am having a hard time thinking that she would leave her brother alone there without a word forever if it was that bad, though

 

[Odyssey]

I think I may have somewhat changed my mind about Andre Rand.

I initially was thinking that he didn't have the b's to confront an adult... but I was looking at Ethel Atwell's NamUs file (in the documents) and there is a sketch there - not sure where it came from, since the other documents there say nobody saw anyone... but it sure does look like Rand.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/show/14598

 

[Evan's Mom]

Just sitting here wondering how someone could just drop off the face of the earth to never be heard from again....

She would not have had a clue as to what to do. After SL went missing I had a big blow up with my parents. And I was the bold one of us two. I sat in the parking lot of the All night grocery store because I was afraid to go any place else. At least there were people coming and going and there were lights. So again my mind wanders to a sad, sad dark place. So much time inbetween 1975 and 2013. Life is surely different now.

What would be the state of mind behind SL if she just wanted to start a new life?

Did the BF/F ever say exactly what their argument was about?

 

[Jmoose]

Did the BF/F ever say exactly what their argument was about?

It doesn't seem as if he did-our two VIs would probably be aware if he did. If he told the police, it might be in the part of the police report that nobody has seen, if there is anything besides the initial missing person report. There are a lot of questions, but no answers

 

[Ghostwheel]

Just sitting here wondering how someone could just drop off the face of the earth to never be heard from again....

She would not have had a clue as to what to do. After SL went missing I had a big blow up with my parents. And I was the bold one of us two. I sat in the parking lot of the All night grocery store because I was afraid to go any place else. At least there were people coming and going and there were lights. So again my mind wanders to a sad, sad dark place. So much time inbetween 1975 and 2013. Life is surely different now.

What would be the state of mind behind SL if she just wanted to start a new life?

Suppose she decided to tell her BF/F about the abortion. He blew up, maybe called her names, and she got out of the car and said she would take a bus. IF (and this is totally speculation) BF/F said something along the lines that he could not get past the abortion issue, SL might have thought that he would tell everyone, her life was now ruined, and that she needed to start over somewhere else. And having gone off with no plan, ran into trouble.

I don't think that is what happened, but that would be a state of mind to cause someone to run off, and to explain why BF/F refused to talk about it.

 

[Jmoose]

Suppose she decided to tell her BF/F about the abortion. He blew up, maybe called her names, and she got out of the car and said she would take a bus. IF (and this is totally speculation) BF/F said something along the lines that he could not get past the abortion issue, SL might have thought that he would tell everyone, her life was now ruined, and that she needed to start over somewhere else. And having gone off with no plan, ran into trouble.

I don't think that is what happened, but that would be a state of mind to cause someone to run off, and to explain why BF/F refused to talk about it.

I think it's possible that this could be the cause of their argument, too. I am not sure why or how it could have come up, but I can imagine him blowing a gasket over something like this, and saying it's a deal-breaker for him. That could account for either a run out of the car door for her, or a violent action from him.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Maybe she was late (in her cycle) and worried she might be pregnant, again... And didn't want another abortion?

 

[EmmaliLucia]

I am normally a very pessimistic person. Now I know she never renewed her license or did anything on her social, but a few years back before I was even a teenager I got a job pumping gas by using Kurt Cobain's SS number (You can find it on his death certificate... You're welcome). So even as late as the early 2000s you didn't really -need- a real social security number.

Just the way the BF/F was so angry and talked about her "Running off" makes me think that he did some investigation of his own (Or she told him) and found out that she's alive and living under a new identity somewhere. Now why she'd do that I have no idea. But go look at Doe Networks resolved cases, there are several where people have literally just taken off and started a new life and never looked back. One that always stuck out to me is the Oregon War Bride. She never went back, it wasn't until several years after she died that her children found out and made guesses as to her motivation.