NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

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GoingByMyGut said:
Thank you for saying that, Skeet. I think the thing to do is report the post. Do you want to? Or should I?
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You can if you want to, I've actually never reported anything.....I haven't said anything in a while all thought I've been following as usual, I just found it ignorant and had to say something. ALL possibilities of this case should be able to be discussed with RESPECT for others opinions.
 
skeet said:
You can if you want to, I've actually never reported anything.....I haven't said anything in a while all thought I've been following as usual, I just found it ignorant and had to say something. ALL possibilities of this case should be able to be discussed with RESPECT for others opinions.
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Done. FYI, I chose this route rather than going directly to G because G tends to appear briefly and not be heard from again. If something can be done about it before the poster he responded to sees it, I will feel better about that.
 
I just read an article in my local newspaper about a woman who disappeared from Rockland County NY in 1981-her name is Darlene Conklin. Her family and the local police have decided that the offer of a reward may elicit some new information in her case, and so a reward in the amount of $2,500.00 is being offered by New York State Crime Stoppers. I wondered how this is typically done-does anyone know where the money comes from? I know ASWDeerhunter talked about this at one time-he could maybe get in touch with the Crime Stoppers and see how he might get this done.

This makes me wonder what it is about Darlene's case that kept the attention of the authorities in Ramapo? She was last seen with her boyfriend, same as Sylvia-they lived together, though, unlike Sylvia and her fiance. Darlene's family didn't report her missing right away-it was some weeks before they did so. Darlene was an adult when she disappeared, so it wasn't her age-could it be as simple as the fact that the police in NYC were too busy to bother with Sylvia's disappearance, whereas the police in Ramapo were not too busy for Darlene? It can't be that-they must have relied on EL's comment about being depressed.
 
Jmoose said:
I just read an article in my local newspaper about a woman who disappeared from Rockland County NY in 1981-her name is Darlene Conklin. Her family and the local police have decided that the offer of a reward may elicit some new information in her case, and so a reward in the amount of $2,500.00 is being offered by New York State Crime Stoppers. I wondered how this is typically done-does anyone know where the money comes from? I know ASWDeerhunter talked about this at one time-he could maybe get in touch with the Crime Stoppers and see how he might get this done.

This makes me wonder what it is about Darlene's case that kept the attention of the authorities in Ramapo? She was last seen with her boyfriend, same as Sylvia-they lived together, though, unlike Sylvia and her fiance. Darlene's family didn't report her missing right away-it was some weeks before they did so. Darlene was an adult when she disappeared, so it wasn't her age-could it be as simple as the fact that the police in NYC were too busy to bother with Sylvia's disappearance, whereas the police in Ramapo were not too busy for Darlene? It can't be that-they must have relied on EL's comment about being depressed.
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Hi, JMoose.

BBM1: I have always assumed, based on the variability of the dollar amounts, that the victims' families (and their benefactors) are the source of reward money. But I don't know that for sure. Are you thinking there might be a public source for the money?

BBM2: The words "to bother" may be a little too strong, but I actually think this is very possible. I know you and I like to use the show Disappeared as a source of examples, and one thing I remember thinking when I watched the series was how the LE response varied from case to case -- and what a difference an early, strong LE response made to the success of certain cases. JMO, but I don't think these different LE departments could help but be affected by things like work load and internal climate. They are institutions made up of people, just like any other. Even the factor of age in Disappeared -- some LE departments used that as a reason not to search, while others ignored it and searched anyway. I think we (all of us) want LE to be invincible but they are not. Again, JMO.
 
Not sure what the criteria is for reward money but the NYPD foundation has an impressive major donor page. I think the levels of rewards $500-$2,500 are funded by the NYPD. Was the foundation flush in the '70's & '80's - probably not. –Wonder if her brother has talked to the CC detective about it? -I think the reward would be set up, and generated by LE. I do wonder where rewards for cold case missing persons would be published, though.

Here is the donation page, and you can designate crime stoppers.
https://www.nycpolicefoundation.org/donate/
 
GoingByMyGut said:
Hi, JMoose.

BBM1: I have always assumed, based on the variability of the dollar amounts, that the victims' families (and their benefactors) are the source of reward money. But I don't know that for sure. Are you thinking there might be a public source for the money?

BBM2: The words "to bother" may be a little too strong, but I actually think this is very possible. I know you and I like to use the show Disappeared as a source of examples, and one thing I remember thinking when I watched the series was how the LE response varied from case to case -- and what a difference an early, strong LE response made to the success of certain cases. JMO, but I don't think these different LE departments could help but be affected by things like work load and internal climate. They are institutions made up of people, just like any other. Even the factor of age in Disappeared -- some LE departments used that as a reason not to search, while others ignored it and searched anyway. I think we (all of us) want LE to be invincible but they are not. Again, JMO.
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Yes, maybe I worded this a little inartfully-but I do think that, because NYC has so many more missing people and violent crime, that they have to sort of "triage"-and since Darlene Conklin would likely have been the only person from her community who went missing at that time, she may have gotten the attention from her local police department in a way that Sylvia couldn't. I guess I am just frustrated that the police , with their limited resources, determined that pursuing an investigation would not have been an optimal use of their time. There are so many stories here of women who disappear in this way, and it's so typical for the police to wait to investigate-I understand why they do this; more often than not, the missing person resurfaces after a few days. But when months and then years go by and there is absolutely no evidence that she is anywhere else (no use of SSN, no money or credit cards, and she took nothing with her), that doesn't usually spell out that she's living somewhere else, happily ignorant of what she is putting her family through. I do think they (LE) have dropped the ball, even if there was no way for them to know at the time that 38 years would go by without a clue.
 
rosemadderlake said:
Not sure what the criteria is for reward money but the NYPD foundation has an impressive major donor page. I think the levels of rewards $500-$2,500 are funded by the NYPD. Was the foundation flush in the '70's & '80's - probably not. –Wonder if her brother has talked to the CC detective about it? -I think the reward would be set up, and generated by LE. I do wonder where rewards for cold case missing persons would be published, though.

Here is the donation page, and you can designate crime stoppers.
https://www.nycpolicefoundation.org/donate/
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Wow, this is a little scary to me. You are right, Rose, the domations are impressive, but the things the money has funded since the 1970s (see the history section) are essential to police work, and it just makes me realize that the amount of money that should be publicly funding police work falls far short.

I am confused by the amounts column on the right. Are they "purchasable" items -- things you can designate your money for? I see the Crime Stoppers v. General options, but no designation, for example, for the GunStop reward program. I guess that's what the comments section is for.

This is an impressive source of revenue, but doesn't the reliance on "gifts" also create issues around favoritism/corruption? I had no idea this existed.
 
The NYC police foundation certainly has an impressive list of contributors-I doubt that it was this substantial in the 70's, with all of the investigations into police corruption becoming public. I had the impression that Sylvia's brother would personally fund a reward, if there was one-but that the logistics were complicated, and I think LE is typically involved in some way. For some reason, I don't think the police in this case would be on board-I think if they supported it as a tool to acquire additional information, they'd have already done it.
 
I agree. I thought that brief history of the 70s was an interesting read and pretty much validates our thinking. I agree re the rewards process too. If they have specific programs they use rewards as a basis for -- like Crime Stoppers and Gun Stop -- I am guessing funds are limited and they would try to be even handed with them? With cold cases, how could they justify funding a reward for one case and not another? And they certainly couldn't afford to fund rewards for all of them -- not to mention current cases. Based on LE's attitude toward SL's case alone, I'm right with you -- I can't see them choosing to use their own funds when they don't even seem to think the case is solvable.
 
GBMT-
I think this is exactly where LE is at. I wonder if, in case her brother is prepared to offer the reward himself, would they discourage him from doing it? For example, would they tell him that it's a waste of money? He'd only have to pay under certain controlled circumstances, but I wonder if they've waved him off because they would be unlikely to uncover evidence leading to an arrest in the case, even if someone has some information, like seeing a car on the side of a lonely road, where a guy is pulling a body-sized bundle out near the landfill? The car would be long gone, and no longer a source of evidence-know what I mean?
 
LOL re your editing note :)

Yeah, I know what you mean, but who can say. Two thoughts:

(1) Witness testimony still has value, right? I guess a lot could hang on who the witness was ... but that "evidence" could lead LE to other, more concrete evidence ... Also, doesn't it seem to you that we are seeing a lot of news about cold cases being solved lately? LE has to be aware that anything can happen. Right? I mean, ideally?

(2) I find it hard to believe, if it made SL's brother happy, that they would decline the reward money. What do you think happens to it? Do they put it in an escrow account in his name? Give him a receipt? At least then it would be there if an opportunity presented itself -- IOW, without them even going looking? And without them advertising that the money is available? (That must have come as a surprise to JL.)

I'm just trying to think about it logically, but how it looks from where they sit and how it looks from where we sit may be two different things. Then again, maybe three different things! Nothing they've done with this makes any sense to me!
 
GoingByMyGut said:
LOL re your editing note :)

Yeah, I know what you mean, but who can say. Two thoughts:

(1) Witness testimony still has value, right? I guess a lot could hang on who the witness was ... but that "evidence" could lead LE to other, more concrete evidence ... Also, doesn't it seem to you that we are seeing a lot of news about cold cases being solved lately? LE has to be aware that anything can happen. Right? I mean, ideally?

(2) I find it hard to believe, if it made SL's brother happy, that they would decline the reward money. What do you think happens to it? Do they put it in an escrow account in his name? Give him a receipt? At least then it would be there if an opportunity presented itself -- IOW, without them even going looking? And without them advertising that the money is available? (That must have come as a surprise to JL.)

I'm just trying to think about it logically, but how it looks from where they sit and how it looks from where we sit may be two different things. Then again, maybe three different things! Nothing they've done with this makes any sense to me!
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Just kind of trying to take this stuff apart as it shows up in my head-logically, it doesn't make sense for LE to turn away a reward that may come directly from Sylvia's brother, and yet, I am just not convinced that LE in NYC is approaching Sylvia's cold case as enthusiastically as some other jurisdictions are with their cold cases. This may be true for several reasons-the last person to see Darlene Conklin may be a person with a violent history, which could make his story questionable, whereas that doesn't appear to be true of the last to see Sylvia. There seems to be just no evidence that we know of which was generated by any investigation into Sylvia's disappearance-assuming that LE questioned BF/F, or anyone else. In Darlene's case, I get the sense, based upon what I've read, that the police never forgot about Darlene's disappearance, and I am not getting the same sense as it regards Sylvia.
 
Jmoose said:
Just kind of trying to take this stuff apart as it shows up in my head-logically, it doesn't make sense for LE to turn away a reward that may come directly from Sylvia's brother, and yet, I am just not convinced that LE in NYC is approaching Sylvia's cold case as enthusiastically as some other jurisdictions are with their cold cases. This may be true for several reasons-the last person to see Darlene Conklin may be a person with a violent history, which could make his story questionable, whereas that doesn't appear to be true of the last to see Sylvia. There seems to be just no evidence that we know of which was generated by any investigation into Sylvia's disappearance-assuming that LE questioned BF/F, or anyone else. In Darlene's case, I get the sense, based upon what I've read, that the police never forgot about Darlene's disappearance, and I am not getting the same sense as it regards Sylvia.
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I agree with you (BBM1). It doesn't seem fair at all. Your BBM2 makes sense ... but is that the only option? Don't they have an obligation to look beyond that? To trying thinking about it another way -- esp. after all this time? Is what they investigate and what they ignore really just up to individual LEOs -- a matter of personal preference? Choice? The right "mood"? It seems like a flawed system to me. Like no system at all really. There seems to be nothing in place to dictate who makes these cold case decisions and who they are accountable to. Looking at SL's case and beyond, whether a cold case is pursued seems to be a matter of luck from a family POV. It doesn't seem right to me. And I don't understand why no one does anything about it.
 
My response was composed yesterday, and lost yesterday, because my internet connection crapped out-I have to re-compose, but I don't want to do it on my phone.
 
GoingByMyGut said:
I agree. I thought that brief history of the 70s was an interesting read and pretty much validates our thinking. I agree re the rewards process too. If they have specific programs they use rewards as a basis for -- like Crime Stoppers and Gun Stop -- I am guessing funds are limited and they would try to be even handed with them? With cold cases, how could they justify funding a reward for one case and not another? And they certainly couldn't afford to fund rewards for all of them -- not to mention current cases. Based on LE's attitude toward SL's case alone, I'm right with you -- I can't see them choosing to use their own funds when they don't even seem to think the case is solvable.
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Bbm: I think this is exactly right. -And, NYPD funds are limited.

If the family offers a reward personally I would think it would be in coordination with LE, held in escrow, and bound by legal requirements.

A reward, not offered by LE, but by Sylvia's family would shine media attention on her family who might then have to advocate for her publicly, maybe share Sylvia's story and their story, in addition to the circumstances of her disappearance, and allude to a suspect who has not been named a suspect... -Somewhat of a catch 22.

Could the press then get anymore information out of LE? -They were pretty careful reporting Sylvia's story in the Staten Island Advance article.
 
Jmoose said:
The NYC police foundation certainly has an impressive list of contributors-I doubt that it was this substantial in the 70's, with all of the investigations into police corruption becoming public. I had the impression that Sylvia's brother would personally fund a reward, if there was one-but that the logistics were complicated, and I think LE is typically involved in some way. For some reason, I don't think the police in this case would be on board-I think if they supported it as a tool to acquire additional information, they'd have already done it.
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bbm: Agreed-and maybe that is why we heard nothing further about it after it was mentioned here on WS.
 
rosemadderlake said:
bbm: Agreed-and maybe that is why we heard nothing further about it after it was mentioned here on WS.
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I'm not sure I'm following you exactly. Are you both theorizing that the reward never happened at all? Because I think it's also possible that LE took it, but did not advertise it. JMO.
 
The reward could have easily been interjected into the article that the Staten Island Advance did on her. I don't think it takes much to buy an ad in the newspaper offering a reward, for anything really, stolen car, information on theft etc etc. I don't see why the police would need to "store" the money in this case. The only one I am aware of is "the boy in the box" where the name of the child is not known and one of the detectives offered his own money and he has passed away now so the police have that money in an account. You see it on missing people posters all the time, if a family member is still alive, I think the money would come directly from the family member not the police. I don't see how it would impossible if one wanted to put this information about the reward money on the Namus site, or the NY missing list. I have a strong feeling that these organizations would not refuse to do that.

Maybe there is a fear that unwanted or unreliable people will come out of the woodwork with misinformation. There seems to be lack of trust, from the get go.

In the beginning, it was "no publicity", the situation is past that now, she is on several sites and an article was printed in the paper. What is to stop the family from having a "poster campaign", make up flyers, tack them on every corner, places in the mall, local grocery stores, everywhere. Check on their status a week later to make sure they are still there. You can add the reward money in the wording of the poster. What is stopping them?

You know I wish they still had a copy of the original missing person report up. Did it really say the words "will not handle". I talked to a retired police office who told me in all his years he has never seen any missing person report with those words on it. He also told me that unless you are a child, or an aged sickly person, they do not have the manpower to investigate every case and most just get filed away. That was a little dis-heartening.
 
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