OK, Noah Presgrove, 19, Sept 4, 2023, Comanche, homicide, attended a house party, found on side of road

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DD Byrd said:
IMO they showered a dead or dying young man. With a basic knowledge of DNA, they tried to get others' blood off him. I can see a Lord of the Flies scenario, especially if he'd been egging people on to hit him. And a crew of drunk (and likely rolling) kids might take it too far before realizing (or caring). An actual Sharpie would take more than a quick shower, so perhaps they used turpentine or acetate, etc. and then washed him to get that off. But why bother, unless someone wrote something specific on him, and they wanted it gone. Clearly someone/s had the spur of the moment idea, likely in shock, panic and still drugged, to make it look like he was hit by a vehicle. But any kid who grew up in the age of CSI type shows knows involved=accessory, so I understand the silence. Most of them have an idea what happened, and possibly only one, two or a few actually dumped him. I believe out of that many people (over 4 days coming and going), someone will crack, or plea. What's interesting is if he was initially attacked with hands, at least one person had his/her own damage in the days following. It sounds like it segued into planks or stoning or who knows what, but the majority of injury was done w/o hands. The coroner can tell at least the type of object that strikes someone, whether or not it's been released or not. I'd imagine the family has info they are likely not sharing.

I'd guess he was dragged at a high speed, torso down, perhaps off the back of an ATV. Hopefully already unconscious. There'd be more evidence on the road if he had been dragged there, even if he was already dead. Any samples embedded in him would be tested, so they likely know dirt, sand, flora or macadam and are waiting for someone to talk. What is giving me pause is his teeth across the road. Either he was dumped and when his mouth hit they scattered, or someone hit him one last time and they came out, but the scene sounds too clean for that. Maybe someone collected them at the time they were broken (getting them away from the house/property) and cast them across the road. That's forethinking. Which makes the whole thing even more horrifying.
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I reacted with Love to your post, not to what happened to Noah, but how you spelled out so succinctly what very likely happened. I too feel this is likely what happened.

I also feel like one or more of his friends/party attendees, will crack at some point. Not from remorse, but from pressure from LE. I feel like it's not even "someone" who knows more of the story, it's more like a whole lot of people do.

Justice for Noah and answers for Noah's family! From reading his autopsy report he went through a LOT!

Oddly, all he was asking for in the vid snippet I saw was "a punch", not an as* whooping so bad he not only was killed, but in the manner he was killed. I hate to say it (no pun intended) but it just feels like overkill to me. And why? Resentment? Hate? Jealousy? Something else? Because I feel it was SOMETHING.

Whatever it was, those responsible, and those in the know, will bear this for the rest of their lives. They may try to forget but it's not really something you can file away or put behind you. What they know will haunt them forever.

All MOO
 
Seattle1 said:
I did too until I read the summary by Dr Stuart Fischer, an internist doctor with extensive experience in emergency medicine, who reviewed the report for DailyMail.com.

Appears more likely Noah received a severe beating by more than one individual.

He said the injuries Presgrove suffered were so catastrophic and varied that him being mortally wounded in a severe beating was the most likely cause.

'The poor kid never had a chance, these [injuries] are not amenable to surgery at all, not at the same time,' he said.

A severe beating...
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And LE is not calling this murder?

Added: there can’t be anything accidental about what happened to Noah. MOO.
 
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Sounds like people were heavily intoxicated at this party.
What’s the legal drinking age in that area? 18? 21?
Who owns the home where the party was being held? The 22 yr old female or her parents ? In my state they could be charged with a crime. I think the family of NP needs to hire an attorney, file a civil suit and Subpoena everybody who attended that party.

“: If kids under age 21 are drinking alcohol at a gathering, and you're providing the location for that gathering, you're responsible — whether you're an adult or a minor, and whether you rent, own, or simply provide the location.“

It’s possible they weren’t directly involved with this crime, but someone/s, at the very least, may have moved his body off that property, in order to avoid legal ramifications and/or repercussions. That’s what I think. MHO.
 
21 years of age

You CANNOT furnish, sell, or deliver alcoholic beverages to a person under 21 years of age. You CANNOT furnish, sell, or deliver alcoholic beverages to an intoxicated person or to any person who has been adjudged insane or mentally deficient. You CANNOT allow a person to be drunk or intoxicated on the licensed premise.


Also, to be clear, the victim, NP, tested negative for typical drugs screened by the medical examiner.
 
IMO he was indeed beaten, begun at first as a series of seemingly hare-brained dares, such as the slap on the video. I, and probably others of you, witnessed this type of dumb-censored-ery in high school. With alcohol plus adrenaline on NP's part I'd bet several people upgraded to hitting him (there is likely video unreleased), still the result of "punch me in the stomach as hard as you can." I'm recalling a Jackass episode of yesteryear with Nigel Hudson. Granted, these kids aren't MMA fighters, but you hit someone just right, you don't have to be. During this time, I don't think he "went for a walk," but he and the 'final' perpetrator/s may have been a distance from the heart of the party, i.e. out on the back lawn, potentially out of earshot/sight. It escalated, statistically from a (real or inebriated-imagined) love triangle, envy as another poster mentioned or good ol' fashioned (2-way) talking smack. So, he receives an ultimately fatal blow. At that point, friends or not, they want what I'd guess are their names off him. Literally. Earlier with drunk shenanigans they probably tagged up, not imagining the outcome but now SAH want their presence at the party erased. I would not be surprised if he was dying from internal bleeding while passed out and he was also given a Sharpie mustache, eyebrows and x-rated facial drawings.

I think most people leave, the rest decide to sober up and think about it. Meanwhile, somewhere in this puzzle, NP is going into rigor. I think he was already naked via antics, but rigor would explain only being able to put shoes on him for his "walk." Realizing whoever finds the body will figure out he didn't jump himself and die, the result is either creating a false manner of death - or at the very least - cover his existing injuries with other injuries. I'd like to think he didn't die in a self-controlled fetal position, but he was curled to transport him more easily. Somewhere is a fire pit with ashes of a tarp or blankets.

I think LE knows who, how, when, where and likely why. But no prosecutor is going to go after this unless it's rock solid. And they will wait to get it iron-clad. They care about justice for NP and his family. They also care about public opinion, their conviction record, and possible elections. Like most cases solved but not solved, they need someone to talk. Which I think will happen sooner rather than later.
 
John Lordan's recent YouTube video brought me here. What a sad and horrific case.

The autopsy report stated that the road is poorly lit at night. This might be a thing to take into consideration

As for the questions about the drawings on his body that were gone, it's more than likely he took a shower at least once since they were there for a few days. Hot weather, alcohol, not much sleep, there's many reasons for taking a shower.

The 'stick figure' was still on his body per the AR so if his friends tried to wash it off to erase evidence why leave that one untouched?

It's very possible his friends 'showered' him to sober him up, my friends did this to me when i was out of it when i was their age.

If it wasn't LE who put a tarp over his body it's possible it was a friend or maybe the truck driver who found him, this can also be the same person who folded his shorts, out of respect or just an automatic response.

His alcohol level was pretty high, causing symptoms such as: blurred vision, loss of coordination and balance, and potentially dysphoria (anxiety or restlessness)

I did not come to any conclusion yet of what happened but it's good they are looking into it.
 
Denise884 said:
The 'stick figure' was still on his body per the AR so if his friends tried to wash it off to erase evidence why leave that one untouched?
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Good point that showering him to (not make a difference) sober him up makes the most sense. But if they were washing off evidence, a stick figure doesn't produce the same potential lead as "Damien wuz here", for example.

So much to still come out and unpack, esp to determine at what point any damage control started. ME knows what the black material embedded in him was, but we have to wait for the lab. Even then, thanks to technicality caution, we're going to hear a lot of "consistent with" xyz material. It's interesting about the upper ribs being damaged; it sounds as though beat up or not, he was run over, but not where he was found. In an effort to keep stories tight, you don't stray far from the truth, perhaps him being run over WAS the accident. I'm envisioning ATVs in a warehouse marked as states evidence. Maybe he dared someone to come at him on one, or was playing chicken. Worse case scenario they tied him and dragged him. I haven't read everything, do we even have proof he came back to the house under his own power, or just some kids said so? Because in that scenario, he's still dying from injuries and it is put in the shower. Follow that with a lie that makes sense, he got in a fight with his gf and set off walking. We hear that with adult cases all the time. Except maybe this time they are covering up an accident, but realize someone is likely to go down for manslaughter. Esp if he was also beaten.

I wonder if there is a wisp of a chance he DID start walking and was run down accidently by a friend on an ATV, just not there. I hope they had dogs track his sent from the house out, and then 2nd from the site of his body to see if they alert. If not, he was dumped. Of course if his body was slung over that ATV and taken to the the dump site, it's entirely possible his hands were dragging on the ground. I want to know if the driveway and/or garage floor were resurfaced (or shed or wherever ATVs were kept) and what's found in the remaining skin of his fingers, and how many injuries were inflicted after his heart stopped.
 
DD Byrd said:
Good point that showering him to (not make a difference) sober him up makes the most sense. But if they were washing off evidence, a stick figure doesn't produce the same potential lead as "Damien wuz here", for example.

So much to still come out and unpack, esp to determine at what point any damage control started. ME knows what the black material embedded in him was, but we have to wait for the lab. Even then, thanks to technicality caution, we're going to hear a lot of "consistent with" xyz material. It's interesting about the upper ribs being damaged; it sounds as though beat up or not, he was run over, but not where he was found. In an effort to keep stories tight, you don't stray far from the truth, perhaps him being run over WAS the accident. I'm envisioning ATVs in a warehouse marked as states evidence. Maybe he dared someone to come at him on one, or was playing chicken. Worse case scenario they tied him and dragged him. I haven't read everything, do we even have proof he came back to the house under his own power, or just some kids said so? Because in that scenario, he's still dying from injuries and it is put in the shower. Follow that with a lie that makes sense, he got in a fight with his gf and set off walking. We hear that with adult cases all the time. Except maybe this time they are covering up an accident, but realize someone is likely to go down for manslaughter. Esp if he was also beaten.

I wonder if there is a wisp of a chance he DID start walking and was run down accidently by a friend on an ATV, just not there. I hope they had dogs track his sent from the house out, and then 2nd from the site of his body to see if they alert. If not, he was dumped. Of course if his body was slung over that ATV and taken to the the dump site, it's entirely possible his hands were dragging on the ground. I want to know if the driveway and/or garage floor were resurfaced (or shed or wherever ATVs were kept) and what's found in the remaining skin of his fingers, and how many injuries were inflicted after his heart stopped.
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But leaving one, on his buttocks, to me doesn't make a lot of sense. And we need to remember that most of them were flat out wasted, not thinking rationally especially since they're still teens/young adults so them washing away any 'evidence' is a little hard to believe for me but then again we can never know for sure of course.

The black material was mostly found on his back IIRC, you would think that it is from car tires leaving a mark but like you say, we can't know for now. It can also be gravel since that was also found on his fingers.

You bring up a few very good points. I too still believe that it might be a hit and run. I don't really feel the beaten to death angle, for now at least.

This comes from the article i shared in a previous comment:

Dr. Michael Baden, forensic pathologist:

"Because the only thing that could cause the extent of the injuries to his head and spine would be a car wheel coming over him, you know, or a truck, more likely a truck and probably on the ground. And I think either he was internally bleeding and intoxicated, walking along the highway, and he collapses, and he's lying there, and the vehicle comes and hits him in the head while he's on the side of the road."

He said after reading the full medical examiner's report, he believes an auto incident contributed to Presgrove's death.
 
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I've been watching Under the Bridge, and the possible beating of this young man by his peers reminds me of the crowd mentality being displayed on this program.
ie: no one is talking, differing stories

LE got tons of info from their cell phones..and luckily they had cameras on the area by the bridge.

jmo
 
Denise884 said:
But leaving one, on his buttocks, to me doesn't make a lot of sense. And we need to remember that most of them were flat out wasted, not thinking rationally especially since they're still teens/young adults so them washing away any 'evidence' is a little hard to believe for me but then again we can never know for sure of course.

The black material was mostly found on his back IIRC, you would think that it is from car tires leaving a mark but like you say, we can't know for now. It can also be gravel since that was also found on his fingers.

You bring up a few very good points. I too still believe that it might be a hit and run. I don't really feel the beaten to death angle, for now at least.

This comes from the article i shared in a previous comment:

Dr. Michael Baden, forensic pathologist:

"Because the only thing that could cause the extent of the injuries to his head and spine would be a car wheel coming over him, you know, or a truck, more likely a truck and probably on the ground. And I think either he was internally bleeding and intoxicated, walking along the highway, and he collapses, and he's lying there, and the vehicle comes and hits him in the head while he's on the side of the road."

He said after reading the full medical examiner's report, he believes an auto incident contributed to Presgrove's death.
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True, but the timeline comes into play as well. How many days was he there, and how old were the drawings. I'm sure at least one kid was more clearly thinking. It could be an awful series of events and an accident, but wow. Someone said the shorts may have been folded by a passerby, do we know if they were? They clearly weren't on him, so in what scenarios is he drunk to the point of passing out, but carrying his shorts...I guess it's possible he grabbed them to put on later and started walking, but wow again. Only one spot of blood is eyebrow-raising, but I suppose also possible if his ribs cracked but supported enough that he didn't...leave that much blood (keeping it as non-graphic as possible). Even small roadkill can be run over but not otherwise leave a mark.

I know he was only a half mile away, but was the road heavily traveled? If one of his friends drunkenly drove out to find him and ran over him accidently, that would certainly explain the silence. Utterly tragic all the way around.
 
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Denise884 said:
The 'stick figure' was still on his body per the AR so if his friends tried to wash it off to erase evidence why leave that one untouched?
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The autopsy report cited the 'stick figure' as being etched into Noah's skin. Someone (not sure who?) clarified that it was a homemade tattoo not a drawing, so it wouldn't have washed away in the shower.
 
DD Byrd said:
True, but the timeline comes into play as well. How many days was he there, and how old were the drawings. I'm sure at least one kid was more clearly thinking. It could be an awful series of events and an accident, but wow. Someone said the shorts may have been folded by a passerby, do we know if they were? They clearly weren't on him, so in what scenarios is he drunk to the point of passing out, but carrying his shorts...I guess it's possible he grabbed them to put on later and started walking, but wow again. Only one spot of blood is eyebrow-raising, but I suppose also possible if his ribs cracked but supported enough that he didn't...leave that much blood (keeping it as non-graphic as possible). Even small roadkill can be run over but not otherwise leave a mark.

I know he was only a half mile away, but was the road heavily traveled? If one of his friends drunkenly drove out to find him and ran over him accidently, that would certainly explain the silence. Utterly tragic all the way around.
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Earlier in the thread, I calculated Noah was dead about 8 hours before being discovered as his body had cycled through rigor. He wasn't on the road for that whole time though.

Maybe someone hung him from a tree and beat him. Someone posted an article that stated a ME said his neck injuries are the same or similar to those found in hangings. Are the options for the causes of his death limitless?

I am thankful for everyone's interest in finding justice for this young man who planned a good future for himself. He was joining the United States Marines along with his cousin.

MOO
 
DD Byrd said:
True, but the timeline comes into play as well. How many days was he there, and how old were the drawings. I'm sure at least one kid was more clearly thinking. It could be an awful series of events and an accident, but wow. Someone said the shorts may have been folded by a passerby, do we know if they were? They clearly weren't on him, so in what scenarios is he drunk to the point of passing out, but carrying his shorts...I guess it's possible he grabbed them to put on later and started walking, but wow again. Only one spot of blood is eyebrow-raising, but I suppose also possible if his ribs cracked but supported enough that he didn't...leave that much blood (keeping it as non-graphic as possible). Even small roadkill can be run over but not otherwise leave a mark.

I know he was only a half mile away, but was the road heavily traveled? If one of his friends drunkenly drove out to find him and ran over him accidently, that would certainly explain the silence. Utterly tragic all the way around.
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About those mysterious shorts found folded near Noah's precious body, let's don't think they were laundered, pressed and folded neatly. They, more than likely, were wrinkled, had tears and spots of blood on them.

I want to know if Noah was coaxed into returning to the party on Sunday after going home to shower and sleep. I want to know who picked him up and where that location was. Maybe that person knew Noah wouldn't be needing his vehicle the next day.

MOO
 
DeDee said:
About those mysterious shorts found folded near Noah's precious body, let's don't think they were laundered, pressed and folded neatly. They, more than likely, were wrinkled, had tears and spots of blood on them.

I want to know if Noah was coaxed into returning to the party on Sunday after going home to shower and sleep. I want to know who picked him up and where that location was. Maybe that person knew Noah wouldn't be needing his vehicle the next day.

MOO
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After listening to Law and Crime, it's reported that the folded shorts are undamaged. I've crossed thru that the shorts may have had tears from my earlier post.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1791506464349057366
 
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