OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[CuriousCricket]

You probably don’t use guns if you bring tasers and a hammer. The AA makes no reference to casings or bullet holes, so I don’t think a gun was actually fired.

I think the hammer left the blood, and the tasers were also used.

Perhaps they didn't use guns and didn't plan to use guns. That's what it looks like. However, we know Cole T was open carrying when the Twomblys went to where Cora's daughter was being interviewed. I can't help thinking he probably was that Saturday, too.

 

[Sundog]

It's just beyond me that that one woman could talk a whole group into killing two women - and the group appears to be growing. I'm not at all saying she didn't, but it's just so strange to me. I could see her talking one person into helping her - but a multitude of people? It's just weird.

If the group was anti-government then they likely shared a distrust of the government at a deep level, including the government agency - Child Protective Services. They were on a mission, Cora and Cole said, and that mission was likely to save the Butler children from decisions the government might make. They likely all believed the same thing, shared the same worldview, so to speak. Butler and Kelly were the enemy. The children had to be saved. I think that was how they saw it and that was their mission. I don't think it was just TA. She may have been a controlling presence, but I think the others acted out of the same beliefs and world view.

JMO.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I think she pulled her gun. I think the tasers were there to subdue these women so they could be transported elsewhere, but they were forced to use the hammer when they fought back. She draws the gun, a struggle ensues, and blood is drawn.

Assuming the gun was kept in her purse, then it would otherwise be there. There is the possibility it's missing because it was on her person (holstered), but I tend to think that's not the case.

She may have pulled her gun and instead of firing it, threatened them to back off. They quickly used a stun gun on her and shbdued her.

 

[MassGuy]

She may have pulled her gun and instead of firing it, threatened them to back off. They quickly used a stun gun on her and shbdued her.

I could definitely get behind that scenario. Any hesitation and she was done.

 

[CuriousCricket]

On Banfield tonight, NN, she interviewed an attorney for TA. The attorney gave a glowing picture of TA and for a while I thought he was describing Mother Theresa. Part of the plan going forward will probably be to depict TA a a harmless loving grandma!! JMO

But what a great gig for the lawyer! In addition to a wealthy client, he's got a BIG case. Life is good in his world. I'd be shoveling the BS, too.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

I think she pulled her gun. I think the tasers were there to subdue these women so they could be transported elsewhere, but they were forced to use the hammer when they fought back. She draws the gun, a struggle ensues, and blood is drawn.

Assuming the gun was kept in her purse, then it would otherwise be there. There is the possibility it's missing because it was on her person (holstered), but I tend to think that's not the case.

Agreed, She sure could have pulled her gun but she was in a bad position in the passenger seat and could not fire at the perps for fear of hitting Veronica. With someone pounding on the driver's window there was probably flying glass that complicated everything. JMO
They might have buried the gun with the bodies.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Agreed, She sure could have pulled her gun but she was in a bad position in the passenger seat and could not fire at the perps for fear of hitting Veronica. With someone pounding on the driver's window there was probably flying glass that complicated everything. JMO
They might have buried the gun with the bodies.

Or one of the perps kept it because it might be useful or as a trophy.

 

[SteveP]

She may have pulled her gun and instead of firing it, threatened them to back off. They quickly used a stun gun on her and shbdued her.

One of the first things you will learn in a gun safety course is, don't ever point a gun at someone you don't intend to shoot. That is very good advice.

 

[kaen]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
There is a quote from the affidavit filed in regard to Cora Twombly. CW was interviewed with her brother by the affiant (officer writing the affidavit) and Cora and Cole showed up. They became aggressive and Cole exited the vehicle with a gun in the holster. (page 3 of 7 in affidavit, can't post screen shot file is too big)

ETA: Posted the affidavit quote in post #753. Additionally, CW was interviewed in Texas not Oklahoma so I think the alleged murderers came to another family home to stop the interview.

 

[MassGuy]

Do you think the attack was planned with two scenes or three?

One where the vehicle was pulled over or forced off the road and the second at the burial site?

Or did the plot have a third place between them where a confrontation, humiliation, or torture was to occur? noon

I am still very unclear about where TA was during that morning during the short time between 9:30 or so and just after 12 noon when the vehicle was found

I think the plan was to intercept the women, and leave an intact car with two missing women. Leaving the car there would be ok because it hasn't reached the location it should be, which is less suspicious. The hole was dug, and it was a matter of placing their bodies in there and filling it in.

So some random person kidnapped them, the fact that you're talking about something so rare (with these facts), that it's unprecedented, notwithstanding.

 

[CuriousCricket]

One of the first things you will learn in a gun safety course is, don't ever point a gun at someone you don't intend to shoot. That is very good advice.

Exactly, if you're ever run off the road, then approached. You are NOT being invited for tea, just start shooting. Someone kicks in a door to your home and comes in -- again tea and crumpets are NOT what is planned. Start shooting.

 

[kaen]

this story.

View attachment 497361

This is the affidavit quote I was mentioning above. Thanks to the original poster.

 

[Chimera]

Do you think the attack was planned with two scenes or three?

One where the vehicle was pulled over or forced off the road and the second at the burial site?

Or did the plot have a third place between them where a confrontation, humiliation, or torture was to occur? noon

I am still very unclear about where TA was during that morning during the short time between 9:30 or so and just after 12 noon when the vehicle was found

Good points.
Wherever TA said she was, & what she was doing, she's obviously not to be trusted, imo.
My guess was either there assisting with the kidnap/murders -- or at the very least, on the phone with the co-conspirators ?

They planned this out, certainly.
But not very well.
Omo.

 

[whitelilac]

I think the plan was to intercept the women, and leave an intact car with two missing women. Leaving the car there would be ok because it hasn't reached the location it should be, which is less suspicious. The hole was dug, and it was a matter of placing their bodies in there and filling it in.

So some random person kidnapped them, the fact that you're talking about something so rare (with these facts), that it's unprecedented, notwithstanding.

Yes. And they figured the local cops would do a cursory search and then dismiss it. TA would never have been suspected because after all she was a top gun in the community, God fearing and influential and political. And, they were afraid of her.

 

[airportwoman]

But what a great gig for the lawyer! In addition to a wealthy client, he's got a BIG case. Life is good in his world. I'd be shoveling the BS, too.

Tifany Adams is wealthy? May I ask how?

p.s. Who did the children live with? Mom didn't have custody and is now deceased, Dad was in a detox facility - what happened to them?

 

[airportwoman]

It was related to an earlier plot where the <modsnip: unnecessary> accused murderers went to Veronica’s town intending to lure her out of the house and get her to drive somewhere, and then they would…drop? throw? use a homemade trebuchet to launch? an actual anvil through her windshield to kill her. Veronica would not leave her home in that instance, so the plan failed.

Or drop it from a hot air balloon? Seriously, that would work about as well.

 

[whitelilac]

Tifany Adams is wealthy? May I ask how?

p.s. Who did the children live with? Mom didn't have custody and is now deceased, Dad was in a detox facility - what happened to them?

wealth? I dunno. Bribes?

The children lived with Tifany. She was caring for them even before dad went into rehab. A court case scheduled for April 17 was to take place regarding custody. Mother wanted more visitation, with overnights, and possibly custody or part custody (not sure).Tifany was not going to let those kids go under any circumstance.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

The 16 year old daughter is one brave hero and I hope gets all the recognition and support she deserves and she is safe loved ones who will protect her. I am glad she was able to escape her home and her mother with the help of her brother.

“We don’t have to worry about VB anymore”

Did it occur to any of the perps that VB’s children, TA’s own grandchildren, would worry about what happened to their mother? That they likely would have grown up missing her, searching for her, asking questions and advocating justice for her?

What about JK’s children, husband, friends and family who also would have done the same until their loved one returned home or they had closure? VB also had parents, siblings, friends and a fiancé too that valued her safety and well-being?

It was as if the four suspects didn’t see VB or JK as humans but their average livestock. Death, including when it is the result of a murder or murders, does not erase someone from existence. History has shown that survivors and representatives of deceased victims of violent crimes have shown that the love and care these 2 women gave others and others gave them in return will ensure that VB and JK will continue to be a problem for TA and the other perps as long as they shall live. Having a God-sized ego does not exclude someone from being held accountable for the crimes they have done and suffering and harm they have caused as a result.

 

[kaen]

I think the plan was to intercept the women, and leave an intact car with two missing women. Leaving the car there would be ok because it hasn't reached the location it should be, which is less suspicious. The hole was dug, and it was a matter of placing their bodies in there and filling it in.

So some random person kidnapped them, the fact that you're talking about something so rare (with these facts), that it's unprecedented, notwithstanding.

They were clearly thinking of no body cases of old before forensics were sophisticated. Add to that all of the evidence found at the scene because it did not go as planned. In this day and age it would be hard to fathom that anyone would think their story and their trace dna minimizing would be fool-proof enough to get away with a no body scheme.

 

[Chimera]

Not that it means anything, but I've noticed the people in that group have a common bond of dog rescue and breeding Aussies.

Trying to project a wholesome image ?
Omo.