OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[MassGuy]

I’m wondering if they had a similar plan that day as they did back in February. Were they trying to cause an “accident” but things went wrong?

It doesn't sound like it based on what's stated in the AA. The road was blocked to force them to take a route that was manned by other members of the group, to include TA. The scene sounds like some sort of ambush.

 

[Cedars]

So the perps chose 9:30 for the attack because the meeting was to be at 10:00 at the old Four Corners market.

This means she can claim to be at home at 9:30 getting the kids ready for the handover, but not yet left the home so she "didn't see anything".

But then the affidavit says she claims to have called VB to confirm and claims VB said something had come up and she wasn't going to make it. If that really happened, VB would have called JK to cancel and JK's husband would have known. And VB's family would not have driven out there to find her.

So why mix this into the story? It really makes no sense and was not going to lead LE or the families of VB and JK away from the purported meeting.

IMO, TA had to explain why she didn't get the children from the babysitter and take them to wait at the pickup spot. First she had to give an excuse to the sitter and the childen (who were expecting a birthday party) why she, TA, wasn't coming before 10. Then, she knew the sitter would tell LE the kids were at the sitters house, not waiting for VB at the meetup spot.

JMO

 

[Herat]

That’s a really great catch. Your alibi should be that they never arrived at the pickup location, which is true. They were attacked before they ever reached it.

Saying the pickup was cancelled is easily disproven by the fact that they were very close to where they were supposed to be, as well as the reasons you stated.

That’s an astounding lie to tell, and I can’t make sense of it.

That alibi would make more sense if the plan had worked and they had been able to remove the vehicle as if there was no trace of the car or the two women ever being there. Then there would be a reason to divert attention to some other search area, and away from the farms of the 4 suspects or the burial site.

I makes no sense at all with the plan going wrong and the car with obvious signs of severe violence being there, easily traced to VB and JK.

Her plan was to avoid being visible at all that day and her alibi gave her reason not to be seen in the area and to leave the children with the friends. She did NOT want to show up at the meeting site with the children and act as if it was going to happen. She did NOT want to have to pretend to call VB from the meeting site and ask where she was, or to call someone else. There would be the once-excited children now frustrated about not having a birthday party and she would have to take care of them and deal with the babysitting friends.

After things went awry, the murdered victims were likely just being buried when she and the children should have been at the meeting point. But she never had any plans to get the kids, they were still at the Cook home and not ready for a birthday party, and she was likely in a dirty field and pretty agitated by the goings on and the mess that had been made.

She simply had no way to give a credible reason for her failure to meet VB.

 

[MassGuy]

IMO, TA had to explain why she didn't get the children from the babysitter and take them to wait at the pickup spot. First she had to give an excuse to the sitter and the childen (who were expecting a birthday party) why she, TA, wasn't coming before 10. Then, she knew the sitter would tell LE the kids were with her, not waiting for VB at the meetup spot.

JMO

That's the stupid thing though, she's there, but there's no reason at all for her to be there. She had these other people doing her bidding, and if she was smart, she'd be waiting at the pickup spot with the kids, knowing full well they'd never make it. Then after "waiting a while," she could go home and claim she thought the plans had changed, and make a bunch of calls to Veronica's powered down phone for good measure.

This still would have all gone to hell, but it's just so mind boggling stupid that I can't get over it.

 

[Cedars]

That's the stupid thing though, she's there, but there's no reason at all for her to be there. She had these other people doing her bidding, and if she was smart, she'd be waiting at the pickup spot with the kids, knowing full well they'd never make it. Then after "waiting a while," she could go home and claim she thought the plans had changed, and make a bunch of calls to Veronica's powered down phone for good measure.

This still would have all gone to hell, but it's just so mind boggling stupid that I can't get over it.

Perhaps, but IMO she is a control freak. They don't take a backseat, they don't let other people take charge. She was the author, lead actor, director and producer of this show.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

It doesn't sound like it based on what's stated in the AA. The road was blocked to force them to take a route that was manned by other members of the group, to include TA. The scene sounds like some sort of ambush.

It certainly does.

This whole setup is so ludicrous, so outlandish.

It reeks of some Bonnie and Clyde era snare, not something that would be effectual in 2024.

Not even in a barren rural dot on the map with no surveillance cameras.

Not when you give yourself away by fabricating a simple tale that is easily punctured.

As @Herat pointed out, telling others and telling LE that VB had to cancel, when VB had a supervising companion who therefore would have no reason to be in that car….how did she think this lie would not dissolve instantaneously?

A Murdaugh Mindset—“I’m too much of a big shot in this li’l ole town, nobody will dare to question me.”

IMO

 

[Optics]

I'm curious what the context was, the affidavit said she called her brother crying and asked him to come get her. Then when he arrived, Cora pointed a gun at his head (I think I have that right).

So he was allowed to leave with CW, but what a scene that must have been? Were both of them threatened to remain silent or else? How did Cora and Cole know they were in Kerrick, were they with family thTad

CW was in Kerrick with the OSBI/FBI, Her father is not Cole Twombly.

 

[Error505]

On the 31st the day after, I don't think the OSBI and FBI were even involved yet. (maybe OSBI)
I wonder why Cullum and TA were already expressing that the police were looking at them.
Or maybe they were called, interviewed, and they got that sense.

OSBI was brought in the same day the car was discovered by Texas County Sheriff, actually within hours really. There is video posted of the guy getting groceries on prior thread, if remember right, OSBI crime lab truck was there.

 

[Muddy K]

Okay, strange question. If VB and JK were likely murdered at the site where the car was found, how are there kidnapping charges?

Yes, and why six kidnapping charges apiece for each of these atrocious cretins?
It makes me wonder if the two women were kidnapped out of VB's vehicle, then kidnapped via tasers and hammers into the pickup trucks, and then finally kidnapped into the freshly-dug hole wherein they were shot and then buried.

So much horror. People did this. Then they went home. All in a day's work.

 

[Herat]

I do hope the trial will have a LE interview with Barrett and Lacey Cook, the couple taking care of the children the night before and, apparently, all during the day of the murders.

To further the alibi story that she told LE, TA would likely have told the Cooks that VB had cancelled and sadly, because of that the kids were not going to attend the birthday party with their mom.

I want to hear them tell the world the horrible lies TA told to these little kids all the while knowing how she was going to torture and murder their mother.

 

[whitelilac]

Is this a mistake?

"Butler was a mother to six children who are currently safe, authorities said. "

Recovered bodies in missing Kansas moms search yet to be identified: Police

The discovery of the bodies came weeks after two Kansas moms were reported missing.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[MassGuy]

Is this a mistake?

"Butler was a mother to six children who are currently safe, authorities said. "

Recovered bodies in missing Kansas moms search yet to be identified: Police

The discovery of the bodies came weeks after two Kansas moms were reported missing.

www.newsnationnow.com

Yes, it’s a mistake. I think there were a combined total of 6 kids, 2 for Veronica, and 4 for Jillian. Not positive on the latter, but there are 4 kids in her Facebook photo.

 

[Cedars]

If the group was anti-government then they likely shared a distrust of the government at a deep level, including the government agency - Child Protective Services. They were on a mission, Cora and Cole said, and that mission was likely to save the Butler children from decisions the government might make. They likely all believed the same thing, shared the same worldview, so to speak. Butler and Kelly were the enemy. The children had to be saved. I think that was how they saw it and that was their mission. I don't think it was just TA. She may have been a controlling presence, but I think the others acted out of the same beliefs and world view.

JMO.

Yes. I was also wondering, the issue of alleged SA risk in the mother's family could work people up to a frenzy.

 

[whitelilac]

Yes. I think there were a combined total of 6 kids, 2 for Veronica, and 4 for Jillian. Not positive on the latter, but there are 4 kids in her Facebook photo.

has to be an error.
The boy is 8 years old, the girl 6. Veronica was 27. So she was 19 when she had the boy. Highly doubtful she'd have 4 others.

 

[Arkay]

Is this a mistake?

"Butler was a mother to six children who are currently safe, authorities said. "

Recovered bodies in missing Kansas moms search yet to be identified: Police

The discovery of the bodies came weeks after two Kansas moms were reported missing.

www.newsnationnow.com

I haven’t seen anything else that suggests that VB already had six children at the age of 27.

Reading through that article also reminded me that TA named her son “Wrangler.”

I am trying to picture an infant boy being called Wrangler…is that a common enough name out that way in Kansas and Oklahoma? Over here in the Northeast, I have never known or heard of anyone by that given name. Like naming your son “Cowboy.”

JMO

 

[Chimera]

Perhaps, but IMO she is a control freak. They don't take a backseat, they don't let other people take charge. She was the author, lead actor, director and producer of this show.

JMO

Ita.
Narcissistic.
Omo.

 

[al66pine]

OK. Criminal Law. Kidnapping Statute

Would diverting them off the road with the intention to harm them do it? If not, they were still alive when carried away, perhaps?

@CuriousCricket
In case nobody has posted re st. law (I'm behind sevral hrs),
JURY INSTRUCTIONS, usu. a good 'plain language' explanation:

"KIDNAPPING - ELEMENTS
"No person may be convicted of kidnapping unless the State has proved beyond a reasonable doubt each element of the crime. These elements are:
"First, unlawfully;
"Second,seizes/confines/inveigles/decoys/kidnaps/abducts/(carries away);
"Third, another person;
"Fourth, with the intent to (confine that person)/(imprison that person)/(send that person out of the State)/(sell that person as a slave)/(hold that person to service): against that person's will."

A felony punishable by imprisonment for a term not > 20 yrs.
(If "offense involved sexual abuse or sexual exploitation," def't must also serve a term of post-imprisonment supervision.
AFAIK, ct. records did not reference SA or SE.)
Per OK statute, 21 O.S. Supp. 2012, § 741:
^ 2023 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 21. Crimes and Punishments :: §21-741. Kidnapping defined.

 

[Chimera]

has to be an error.
The boy is 8 years old, the girl 6. Veronica was 27. So she was 19 when she had the boy. Highly doubtful she'd have 4 others.

Yes, an error in the article -- VB had two and Jillian had 4.
Omo.

 

[ifindedout]

Tifany Adams is wealthy? May I ask how?

Alimony from 4 exes, perhaps?

 

[whitelilac]

Alimony from 4 exes, perhaps?

or life insurance policies payouts ?