OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[Hestia's Fire]

Then why would TA claim she spoke to VB and that VB couldn't make the visitation? And why would JK be with her in that area if not for visitation?

Beats me. It's a fair question, but for a murder plot several months in the making, it doesn't seem like they spent more than 5 minutes thinking through the details.

 

[Howl]

I, personally, want to give WR every presumption of innocence until more information is released.

Quote from the April 12 Cole Earl Twombly affidavit: Rickman's grandmother, Debi Knox-Davis, reported that in mid to late February 2024, Rickman told her they didn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work and, "we will take out Veronica at drop off."...Rickman denied having that conversation with Knox.
It seems very likely that WR knew of and approved the plan. He denies having that conversation, but this detail stands out: ...we will take out Veronica at drop off..."

Another detail from the same affidavit that stood out: "Through the child custody case, recordings were obtained where Rickman discussed death threats by Adams and Adams's boyfriend Tad Cullum..." This paragraph goes on to note that TA at times would not allow WR to have access to his own children, even though he was a custodial parent.

It sounds as though TA made death threats against her own son, I'm assuming related to her maintaining custody of WR's kids, so I'm thinking (MOO) she's already pathological about HER retaining custody of her grandkids and no one else. Also, (again MOO) whoever noted there should be some Black Widow investigations regarding TA was right on target. MOO: She's possibly already orchestrated murders with zero consequences, so this one didn't seem like a stretch.

Further along in the affidavit, "While in Kerrick, TX, interviewing CW and her brother, Cora and Cole arrived and tried to get access to CW and her brother..."

The brother is not identified, so I'm assuming he's a minor as well and young enough that he has no information about the murderous goings on.

Earlier it was noted that there were 6 children orphaned by this tragedy. But really, you have to count the Twombley children as well. No, their parents aren't dead, but both Twombley parents will go to prison. Yes, there will be phone calls and the rare prison visit, but the parents won't be present to raise them. If they can't stay in the immediate area, they will have to say goodbye to the beautiful horses and dogs they are almost certainly bonded to.

I hope extended (and emotionally healthy) family or neighbors have been able to take them in.

I have to wonder if one or more of these yahoos will decide to represent themselves at trial, Sovereign Citizen style. If so, send a lot of sympathy to the judge and jurors; it will be crazy town.

Random thought: Might the "crew" have put a tracking device on VB's car, so they knew exactly WHEN she would arrive so they could be precise on setting up the diversion?

 

[BrownRice]

It’s not been reported exactly what their plan was but I think it’s a safe bet the plan went ‘awry’ because the four didn’t expect to be linked to the two missing women or be subsequently arrested.

Oops. Maybe they should have considered the consequences prior to committing murder.

 

[ClearAhead]

Then why would TA claim she spoke to VB and that VB couldn't make the visitation? And why would JK be with her in that area if not for visitation?

I presume that was TA’s explanation for why she wasn’t at Four Corners with the children tapping her fingers, waiting impatiently because VB hadn’t shown up.

But at the same time it wouldn’t be out of the realm if TA had told VB to not bother arranging a supervisor to accompany her, but VB did what she was court ordered to do, not trusting her. If so, it’s entirely possible TA expected VB would be alone.

 

[BrownRice]

Then why would TA claim she spoke to VB and that VB couldn't make the visitation? And why would JK be with her in that area if not for visitation?

I think because TA canceled the regularly scheduled visitation supervisor, so maybe TA didn't expect JK to be with VB. Expected her to be alone. But even with no supervisor in VB's car, I would think that VB's family would have come back and said no, she was planning to pick the kids up, so either way it was a stupidly thought out plan.

 

[x_files]

I’m just catching up and after reading the affidavit it is unbelievable how idiotic those 4 are. Internet searches, burner phones, stun gun purchases…to name a few.

I’m more shocked though that the daughter was told everything so nonchalantly like it’s a normal conversation. And asks her to clean the truck?!

Makes me think they are extremely comfortable with committing brutal murders. Perhaps, this was not the first?

 

[x_files]

Nope. Shocking as it is. As long as he didn’t assist in any way, knowledge of a crime before it occurs isn’t a crime.

I’ve followed cases where several people knew a murder was going to happen, and they did nothing.

As long as he didn’t help plan it or anything, he’s likely in the clear.

yikes!

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Yes. I was also wondering, the issue of alleged SA risk in the mother's family could work people up to a frenzy.

Yes on this and the antecedent message! And as relates to possible distrust of Child Protective Services (CPS) and other authority.

My mind still keeps going back to the earlier thread subject of some unidentified officer telling her son that he, the officer, believed the children (of VB IIRC) would have been better off in the custody of TA, or words to that effect. Still not clear enough why that officer is interjecting that perspective then. And this was before the horrid fateful day that VB and JK met.

As much possible distrust TA and the group may have had, still have to wonder if she didn’t ‘own’ or have measure of a few individuals where she could utilize them? IMO that also needs to be further investigated if it isn’t already.

At this rate, I think this could be a four or six hour Dateline show. Cue up Keith Morrison IMO. MOO

 

[Tutter]

An affidavit revealed that Butler was going through a nasty divorce and custody battle with her husband Wrangler Cole Rickman

Gang accused of killing two Kansas mothers belong religious group

The four suspects accused of killing two Kansas mother's were part of a antigovernmental religious group called 'God's Misfits.' Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley went missing on March 30.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yes, exactly. They are a gang. Thugs

 

[x_files]

I literally could not believe the details of the planned "anvil" attack. The timing logistics of being able to successfully pull that off are mind boggling.

I also read in disbelief, how Cora openly told her sixteen year old daughter, how the murders went down. These were people who if you looked at their facebook pages appeared to be upstanding, God loving people.

Their local community is reeling. They involved their own family and friends - cleaning & borrowing a truck involved with the crime, burying bodies on their property. I fully expect to see this on a two hour episode of Dateline.

My thoughts are with Veronica & Jillian's famiy and loved ones tonight

They may most likely believe it was God's Will to kill VB. It sounds like a cult, a small cult but a cult nonetheless, like the Daybells, delusional thinking they are doing God's Will.

 

[Eli9]

I think because TA canceled the regularly scheduled visitation supervisor, so maybe TA didn't expect JK to be with VB. Expected her to be alone. But even with no supervisor in VB's car, I would think that VB's family would have come back and said no, she was planning to pick the kids up, so either way it was a stupidly thought out plan.

I agree with the BBM
The list of stupid actions in this case is lengthy.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Haven’t read about her ex’s is it possibly she gained her wealth from divorce 1/2 hers 1/2 his or by death of husbands?

She lives in Oklahoma. She very likely gained oil and mineral rights from inheritance and divorces.

 

[NWay]

As long as the childrens father is in rehab he can not be questioned about what he knows about anything can he?

Good question, but if he were instead in jail then he would be interviewed imo.

My speculation is that given his importance on the topic of custody and potential knowledge of the players involved that there is no way that LE didn't TRY to interview him imo. Whether he cooperated was something that early on OSBI was asked by MSM but NEVER confirmed to my knowledge.

Reading the AA released yesterday though it does appear that there was some information relating to WR so perhaps he did cooperate. I guess we will have to stay tuned.

MOO

 

[Chimera]

Quote from the April 12 Cole Earl Twombly affidavit: Rickman's grandmother, Debi Knox-Davis, reported that in mid to late February 2024, Rickman told her they didn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work and, "we will take out Veronica at drop off."...Rickman denied having that conversation with Knox.
It seems very likely that WR knew of and approved the plan. He denies having that conversation, but this detail stands out: ...we will take out Veronica at drop off..."

Another detail from the same affidavit that stood out: "Through the child custody case, recordings were obtained where Rickman discussed death threats by Adams and Adams's boyfriend Tad Cullum..." This paragraph goes on to note that TA at times would not allow WR to have access to his own children, even though he was a custodial parent.

It sounds as though TA made death threats against her own son, I'm assuming related to her maintaining custody of WR's kids, so I'm thinking (MOO) she's already pathological about HER retaining custody of her grandkids and no one else. Also, (again MOO) whoever noted there should be some Black Widow investigations regarding TA was right on target. MOO: She's already orchestrated murders with zero consequences, so this one didn't seem like a stretch.

Further along in the affidavit, "While in Kerrick, TX, interviewing CW and her brother, Cora and Cole arrived and tried to get access to CW and her brother..."

The brother is not identified, so I'm assuming he's a minor as well and young enough that he has no information about the murderous goings on.

Earlier it was noted that there were 6 children orphaned by this tragedy. But really, you have to count the Twombley children as well. No, their parents aren't dead, but both Twombley parents will go to prison. Yes, there will be phone calls and the rare prison visit, but the parents won't be present to raise them. If they can't stay in the immediate area, they will have to say goodbye to the beautiful horses and dogs they are almost certainly bonded to.

I hope extended (and emotionally healthy) family or neighbors have been able to take them in.

I have to wonder if one or more of these yahoos will decide to represent themselves at trial, Sovereign Citizen style. If so, send a lot of sympathy to the judge and jurors; it will be crazy town.

Random thought: Might the "crew" have put a tracking device on VB's car, so they knew exactly WHEN she would arrive so they could be precise on setting up the diversion?

Thanks for posting this !
All of the innocent lives of the minors, and the adult relatives who didn't know what was being planned ...ruined.
It's so sad.
My .02; if the conversation occurred the way the Knox-Davis has reported -- how regrettable no one, least of all WR, thought to make a report to LE ?
Good point about the tracking device !
Hmm.
Omo.

 

[NWay]

I'd really like to know what their plan was to accomplish that. I know some people have dropped large rocks off overpasses on oncoming cars, but a ranching anvil weighs around 70 pounds. Lacking an overpass to drop it from, what was their plan? To physically throw it through her car's front window? That would be quite the physical feat!

Reading about this entire scenario in the AA had me scratching my head as I wonder if the group of co-conspirators was sitting around during their 'meetings' drinking beer and watching old Road Runner reruns rather than reading the Bible as they professed to be doing....

The physics of throwing an anvil from height and with speed with a precise target in mind boggles the mind and given the apparent intelligence of the group of co-conspirators leads me to believe that they would have most likely injured themselves or an innocent passerby.

Factor in the Google search results from TA included in the AA yesterday that included the gem, "...how to get someone to come out of their house..." and I think its safe to say we aren't dealing with a NASA brain trust group of criminals here.....

MOO

 

[Chimera]

Makes me think they are extremely comfortable with committing brutal murders. Perhaps, this was not the first?

Exactly what I've been wondering.
Omo.

 

[Leilei]

Does the "pro se notice of invocation of constitutional rights oklahoma" at the bottom mean that Cora is going to try to represent herself?
I checked the other three, and she's the only one that has this listed in the court records. And nobody has an attorney at this point.
IMO

OSCN Case Details

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Can someone explain what went "awry" in their plans? What had they intended to happen, as opposed to what did happen? Thank you

They may have intended to just make the victims vanish (without leaving evidence of violence) after stunngunning them. Perhaps they were going to flatten one tire or alter the radiator hose making it appear that the victims had car trouble and a random sexual predator pulled over pretending to help, but abducted them.

 

[NWay]

Death penalty 'not good enough' for suspects of murdered mum, family say

The bodies of Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, from Kansas, were found in rural Texas County in Oklahoma on Sunday near their abandoned vehicle which was covered in blood and next to a broken hammer

www.mirror.co.uk

Katie Dean, Veronica's aunt, exclusively told The Mirror she believes there are "way more than four" involved in the killing of her niece.

She said: "I believe way more than four were involved in these (alleged) murders.

IMO this statement makes alot of sense and I hope LE is all over investigating the situation. LE statement was clear yesterday that the case is still an 'active investigation' so I have hope that all avenues will be explored to root out any/all co-conspirators beyond the 4 arrested so far.

I do very much also hope that the Families of the Victims once they bury their loved ones and mourns their loss, obtains excellent legal counsel and pursues every civil action possible against any/all parties involved that possess assets and whom participated in this heinous premeditated assassination of VB and JK. Trust assets are challenging to pursue but my guess is that there are attorney's in OK very well able to obtain financial justice for the victims families as imo there is a good bit of wealth surrounding a couple of the co-conspirators according to OK Land Records available online.

MOO

 

[Howl]

*sigh* Another child in the list of victims of this senseless crime. How many children do the Twombley’s have?

At least two. The 16-yr-old and a brother are referenced in the Cole Earl Twombley affidavit.

I really hope the 16 year old daughter has a strong team with her dad & brother around her - she’s probably feeling all kinds of emotions including incredible guilt for doing the right thing.

Who is 16-yr-old daughter's bio dad?

I just realized I don't know the exact relationship between Cole Earle Twombley and TA. Is Cole Twombley Wrangler Cole Rickman's uncle and TA's brother?