Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

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Curious Me said:
I understand why you're questioning CT's looking so smug. I noticed his smirk in his mug shot too. I think that is his "Resting B Face". MOO, he saw some kind of benefit for getting involved and it was something benefitting him. He was willing to help kill young women! Have his wife be involved too. His old time friend hinted that Cole would most likely have a monetary motive. So, that angle must play into it. Promised something of value to him?

I don't know anything about that. Losing a son I'd imagine would be a sad event. Mysterious, hmm... maybe someone else knew something more about it. And promised to keep quiet? That little group they had going was not about normal activities, so who knows.​

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To me, TA has a sly smart aleck look on her face. MOO, Cole looks smirky in his mug shot. Could be his regular RBF. ​
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I agree that that isn't a smirk. Some people have faces that just look that way.
 
Curious Me said:

Well, MOO, hope you don't mind me saying that someone should've told TBC that beard makes him look like an old man at only 43 yrs. old. MOO, Yuck on that beard. ​
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I know people can choose to look however they want, and I try not to judge, but I agree with you the beard does him no favors. I think it will be interesting to see if/for how long he keeps the beard. Most defense attorneys will try to get their client to present themselves as clean-cut, modest & almost bland. That beard is absolutely not the image they would likely advise. If he's listening to his attorney it should be gone or at least back to the neatly trimmed beard shown in the photos from just a few years ago.

It might also mean he was distancing himself from TA & her influence and the other misfits. He's already broken from the pack a bit to hire an attorney for himself. He may decide his best bet is to try to save himself even if it means throwing the others under the bus. Or in this case under the skid steer.


JMO
 
al66pine said:
Tifany & Tad. Married or Not? Husband-Wife Privilege?

@imstilla.grandma TYVM for your post w link,* just published.

I'm curious about legal status of their relationship, esp'ly as MSM continues reporting girlfriend/boyfriend or unspecified "partners."

IIRC someone posted a link or pdf of a doc recorded in Texas County, OK. office, either County Recorder or County Clerk.
The relevant info showed that TA & TC had obtained a Marriage License and had "returned" doc to that office.**
Can't find the post now.
@imstilla.grandma, was that you? Anyone? TiA.
Has a sleuther here gotten more info? Or a pdf/copy?

Sooo has nobody w MSM also located this INFO online?
Or did an MSM'er locate INFO & get copy of "returned" doc.

Could it somehow be deemed "DEFICIENT?"
Say, if the "returned" M. License doc had missing info or missing siggies (some lines/fields blank, missing siggies)?

Why a post asking tedious Qs re their precise LEGAL STATUS?
Because OK. evidentiary laws/rules re Husband-Wife Privilege.
That's another post in & of itself. Later.

____________________________
* New ex. of MSM characterizing TA & TC as partners, not H &W.
"Cullum had done some concrete work... Adams, his partner...." May 4
Revealed: Extremist views of latest ‘God’s Misfits’ murder suspect

** Usual procedure
Iiuc, after getting M. LICENSE, a couple finds an officiant to conduct ceremony, gets witnesses, takes M. vows before them, signed M. license, gets wit siggies, officiant siggy, yadda yadda, takes that M. License doc to the county ofc, & has it recorded.
Bingo -> M. License is now official Marriage CERTIFICATE; so couple becomes H & W.
I could be overlooking a step, IDK. Anyone?

OTOH, what if some or all lines on M. License doc are left BLANK (not completed or signed)?

Someone posted re Common Law marriage in OK.
IIRC the doc discussing CL Mar. in OK was a form & intruxn re claims for public school teacher retirement $ benefit.
May research a bit further.
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It was not TA and TC. The marriage license was for the Twomblys. OSCN Case Details

We don't have any reason to believe that their license was somehow not recorded properly. I also don't think any issues regarding marriage will amount to much. Here's why:

1. In Oklahoma, the only spousal privilege that exists is the right for either spouse to prevent/refuse to testify about *confidential* communications made between the spouses during marriage. You might think of this as what the Twomblys (or, likely in this case, the Grices) spoke about while locked away in their bedroom and pinky swore never to tell. If there were group discussions or communications that were not confidential to the married couple, then that's fair game. I don't think this case hinges on anything confidential. Although some other privileges may come into play (such as the 5th amendment right to not incriminate yourself), I don't think the spousal privilege is going to help anyone. 2023 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 12. Civil Procedure :: §12-2504. Husband-wife privilege.

2. Re: common law marriage. I believe that a couple married via common law would still be able to assert the spousal privilege. They'd probably have to have some kind of evidentiary hearing to prove the marriage. I can't find anything great to link to that's not behind a pay wall, but this court order at least acknowledges the possibility and explains the burden of proof (it also has some irrelevant-to-us analysis of tribal law): https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1XWaILPpi8BQXsK9NtrvWz
 
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The thing about spousal privilege it only protects PRIVATE conversations, it does not protect anything they said to someone else and since this is a conspiracy doesn't sound like they had much of any incriminating private conversations about the conspiracy that other third party's were already privy too. Jmo.
 
5th Amendment Right & H-W Testimony???
Cool Cats said:
Quote
Why a post asking tedious Qs re their precise LEGAL STATUS?
Because OK. evidentiary laws/rules re Husband-Wife Privilege.
They do not need that privilege, they have a 5th amendment right not to testify against each other.
2 Cents
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@Cool Cats
Quoting from your post: Husband & wife "have a 5th amendment right not to testify against each other" in a crim case.

Respectfully asking for a quote & link to source for above.
@Cool Cats ? Anyone? TiA
 
charmingbetsy said:
It was not TA and TC. The marriage license was for the Twomblys. OSCN Case Details

We don't have any reason to believe that their license was somehow not recorded properly. I also don't think any issues regarding marriage will amount to much. Here's why:

1. In Oklahoma, the only spousal privilege that exists is the right for either spouse to prevent/refuse to testify about *confidential* communications made between the spouses during marriage. You might think of this as what the Twomblys (or, likely in this case, the Grices) spoke about while locked away in their bedroom and pinky swore never to tell. If there were group discussions or communications that were not confidential to the married couple, then that's fair game. I don't think this case hinges on anything confidential. Although some other privileges may come into play (such as the 5th amendment right to not incriminate yourself), I don't think the spousal privilege is going to help anyone. 2023 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 12. Civil Procedure :: §12-2504. Husband-wife privilege.

2. Re: common law marriage. I believe that a couple married via common law would still be able to assert the spousal privilege. They'd probably have to have some kind of evidentiary hearing to prove the marriage. I can't find anything great to link to that's not behind a pay wall, but this court order at least acknowledges the possibility and explains the burden of proof (it also has some irrelevant-to-us analysis of tribal law): https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1XWaILPpi8BQXsK9NtrvWz
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These 5 indicted defendants are considered co-defendants even if they have seperate trials.

When people are co-defendants they can't be forced to testify against each other. This includes if a husband and wife are co-defendants.

This is a 5th amendment right under the constitution. Every defendant has the right to remain silent.
If co-defendants were forced to testify against each other they would be incriminating themselves because they themselves are part of the case.

However, any one of these 5 co-defendants can waive their right to remain silent and testify against each other including the married Cullums testifying against each other.

However, a defendant should never do this without a plea deal in place because they can incriminate themselves and have their testimony used against them.

Examples of death penalty co-defendant spouses can be found in the Ohio Rhoden-Gilley murder case and in the Idaho child murder case of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell.

2 Cents
 
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Cool Cats said:
These 5 indicted defendants are considered co-defendants even if they have seperate trials.

When people are co-defendants they can't be forced to testify against each other. This includes if a husband and wife are co-defendants.

This is a 5th amendment right under the constitution. Every defendant has the right to remain silent.
If co-defendants were forced to testify against each other they would be incriminating themselves because they themselves are part of the case.

However, any one of these 5 co-defendants can waive their right to remain silent and testify against each other including the married Cullums testifying against each other.

However, a defendant should never do this without a plea deal in place because they can incriminate themselves and have their testimony used against them.

Examples of death penalty co-defendant spouses can be found in the Ohio Rhoden-Gilley murder case and in the Idaho child murder case of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell.

2 Cents
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Thanks for that, Cool Cats. I had never given any thought to the issue of the 5th and co-defendants before.
 
Muddy K said:
Really interesting angle you took here, and frankly, these murders are so beyond the pale that it's going to be like deciphering hieroglyphics for LE and then state prosecutors to settle on the truth of who decided to undertake the "mission" and which actors then did what to whom, when and where.

That being said, IMO smiling/smirking as it appears Cole Twobley does in the perp-walk video can also be a common defensive reaction, bluff and bluster in the face of personal embarrassment and hard questions he didn't want to answer.
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It could also be:
What does it mean when someone says duper's delight smirk?

One of the obvious signs of duper's delight is when the corners of their mouth twitch into an almost smile. Especially when they successfully manipulate or deceive someone, they find joy in this. They're just so pleased and proud of themselves!
 
Gae said:
I'm going to go way off the deep end here...
Several times, I've watched that interview with the rancher who has known Cole Twombly nearly all his life. His description of Cole is revealing - if true - and I don't know why he'd lie about it.
So-
Cole Twombly had a smile/smirk on his face walking in and out of the hearing. Why is that? Why would a non-violent man, who was lured into a murderous plot be smirking when caught? Totally different look on his face than on the others' faces.
<modsnip>
What if Cole Twombly was actually the driving force behind the murder of these two women? Not exonerating Tifany in any way, shape, or form - but I'm starting to wonder if he did a lot of encouraging of the whole idea of killing Veronica.
I kept wondering how Tifany persuaded the Twombly couple to help her murder Veronica (and Jilian) What if Cole Twombly and even his wife, Cora, were more than willing to help and needed no persuasion at all, and in fact, encouraged the murders?
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I can certainly get behind your thinking here @Gae!
BBM
I can honestly see Cole T being the one to come up with the idea, help plan it and be the main driving force behind the whole horrendous murder plots, even the one in Feb, 2024! MOO
 
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Error505 said:
I can certainly get behind your thinking here @Gae!
BBM
I can honestly see Cole T being the one to come up with the idea, help plan it and be the main driving force behind the whole horrendous murder plots, even the one in Feb, 2024! MOO
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Something tells me there's much more to this story than an angry grandma and two murders.
 
Error505 said:
I can certainly get behind your thinking here @Gae!
BBM
I can honestly see Cole T being the one to come up with the idea, help plan it and be the main driving force behind the whole horrendous murder plots, even the one in Feb, 2024! MOO
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The one who hit Veronica with the hammer could have been him. Someone hit the women and I do not think it was TA. She manipulated them into it but I believe she stayed back while some of the others committed murder using blunt force trauma.

I hope the families find out these details.
 
Interestingly, two mortgages on Twombly & Sons properties in Cimarron County were released last Monday by the mortgage company. The original mortgages totaled about $96k and were taken out by Cole Twombly in 2009 and 2011. No other recent recordings have been made on these properties. I speculate that they have been sold and the deed transfers just haven't been recorded yet, but I know there have been some theories floated here about paid participation...

 
charmingbetsy said:
Interestingly, two mortgages on Twombly & Sons properties in Cimarron County were released last Monday by the mortgage company. The original mortgages totaled about $96k and were taken out by Cole Twombly in 2009 and 2011. No other recent recordings have been made on these properties. I speculate that they have been sold and the deed transfers just haven't been recorded yet, but I know there have been some theories floated here about paid participation...

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Interesting. Although there would typically be a deed transfer before a release of a lien, if the property secured was sold.

Moo
 
stormymama said:
Interesting. Although there would typically be a deed transfer before a release of a lien, if the property secured was sold.

Moo
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not in my area. They would both be recorded around the same time. The mortgage release and the new deed conveying to buyers. Although, in my area, the assessor is charged with updating the public property tax online record and they might sometime lag behind in getting the new owners listed. JMO
 
Cool Cats said:
The one who hit Veronica with the hammer could have been him. Someone hit the women and I do not think it was TA. She manipulated them into it but I believe she stayed back while some of the others committed murder using blunt force trauma.

I hope the families find out these details.
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IMO, I don't think TA was the one swinging the hammer - because of their beliefs. That would have been "man's work" and something done by the "head of the household" and the male spiritual leader. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the three men took care of the dirty work while Tifany and Cora stood by and watched.
 
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