Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

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The three motions filed included two by the defense and one by George Leach, district attorney for Beaver, Cimarron, Harper, and Texas counties. Judge Jett granted the state an extension of six months of the withholding of the full and complete medical examiner’s report and a gag order on law enforcement, court personnel, and other personnel from making comments to the media excluding general statements, schedules, and information from past hearings.

Judge Jett denied the defense’s motion to seal search warrants citing the Oklahoma Open Records Act. Further, all defense attorneys requested for defendants to be in the room together for the trial and any further hearings with the claim that splitting defendants up interferes with their right to a fair trial under the 6th Amendment.

A discovery status hearing is scheduled to go over any discovery motions on June 19
www.everythinglubbock.com

Oklahoma judge rules on 3 motions during status hearing for Kansas women deaths case

Texas County Associate District Judge, A. Clark Jett, ruled on three motions filed by both the defense and the state of Oklahoma in the case of the death of 2 Kansas women.
www.everythinglubbock.com www.everythinglubbock.com
 
It’s as if the sovereigns believe there is a kind of magic code to legal documents, that if only they get the weird spelling and capitalization right, all of their problems will be solved. But there doesn’t appear to be a Sovereign Citizens Stylebook, and every document looks a bit different.

Some sovereign citizens also believe that the only legitimate governmental entity is the state, but they tend to view each state as a republic. McAdam said, however, he did not know why Grice spelled Oklahoma as “Oklahomat Republic.”

Reading Grice’s manifesto left me wondering how many others out there believe what he does, or at least what he professed to. McAdam said the SPLC had not heard of God’s Misfits until news broke about the arrests. He also said the center doesn’t have a way to track actual members in a movement, but that it was pretty clear the sovereign citizens were growing.

McAdam, who works for the SPLC from his home in Montana, compared the movement to a prairie twister.

“Many of these movements are like a funnel cloud or tornado, where way up in the clouds at the big end of the funnel, you have people the get pulled in for all kinds of reasons,” McAdam said. “They kind of spin out and back in again. But then there are people who really start to go down into the funnel. And as they do that, they become steeped in these conspiracy theories and worldviews. And if you go all the way through down to the ground and pop out, well those are people like Timothy McVeigh.” :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
imstilla.grandma said:
The three motions filed included two by the defense and one by George Leach, district attorney for Beaver, Cimarron, Harper, and Texas counties. Judge Jett granted the state an extension of six months of the withholding of the full and complete medical examiner’s report and a gag order on law enforcement, court personnel, and other personnel from making comments to the media excluding general statements, schedules, and information from past hearings.

Judge Jett denied the defense’s motion to seal search warrants citing the Oklahoma Open Records Act. Further, all defense attorneys requested for defendants to be in the room together for the trial and any further hearings with the claim that splitting defendants up interferes with their right to a fair trial under the 6th Amendment.

A discovery status hearing is scheduled to go over any discovery motions on June 19
www.everythinglubbock.com

Oklahoma judge rules on 3 motions during status hearing for Kansas women deaths case

Texas County Associate District Judge, A. Clark Jett, ruled on three motions filed by both the defense and the state of Oklahoma in the case of the death of 2 Kansas women.
www.everythinglubbock.com www.everythinglubbock.com
Click to expand...
If all five are in court and tried together does that mean 5 separate juries and all 5 attorneys being able to question each witness? What a circus that would be if that's the case.
 
Muddy K said:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/us/oklahoma-double-murder-plot/index.html

This article by Rachel Clark of CNN has been linked previously upthread, but I'm linking it again for convenience and because the following snippet caught my attention:

"Investigators believe Butler and Kelley were lured to the location, arriving there at about 9:40 a.m. They say the women were forced into another vehicle and confined there." BBM.

I don't recall reading that detail in any of the 5 probable cause affidavits, and I would really like to know from where it was sourced, but if it's true, that's kidnapping, among other things.

And in which vehicle were they confined? And in what condition were they when confined?

I cannot imagine their terror in the face of such menace, cruelty and savagery. So many worsts in this whole monstrous crime. Did they think of their children, their families, their lives? Did VB realize that she had unwittingly delivered JK to her death?

It's just unrelentingly awful.
Click to expand...
"And in which vehicle were they confined? And in what condition were they when confined?"
Most likely the trailer served as a part of blocking the road completely and quickly when attached to a truck. Also; upon stopping them , would have served as an excellent "jail" to transport.The injuries VB and JK must have sustained during resistance to extraction should yield lots of evidence in the trailer to its connection to the murders. Why LE seized it post haste and towed away. As coment..Typically a gooseneck trailer that size and length fits/often matches well with the flatbed pickup type truck drive by the Thombly's. The ball hitch on the level/clear body.

Stop, seize, jail in trailer, drive the Kia along, go to the grave site , unload, murder, bury all... With TA's calculated time timeline they could have accomplished it. Resistance at stop site, incapacitated KIA, rush to move along. Then returning to take care of the KIA, VB's relatives and/or LE may have been on site as they approach. Too late...
 
MAY 15, 2024
www.newschannel10.com

Gag order issued in Texas County double murder case

All five suspects charged with the murders of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley appeared in court today for a status hearing.
www.newschannel10.com www.newschannel10.com
Linked in the article above:

T. Adams - CF-24-72 - Mtn to Seal Warrants

T. Adams - CF-24-72 - Mtn to Prohibit Extrajudicial Statements

T. Adams - CF-24-72 - Mtn to Preserve Evidence
 
imstilla.grandma said:
McAdam said the SPLC had not heard of God’s Misfits until news broke about the arrests. He also said the center doesn’t have a way to track actual members in a movement, but that it was pretty clear the sovereign citizens were growing.

Click to expand...
Very good article. Thanks for posting!

The article mentioned that along with filing in the county records, Grice also mailed the affidavit to the US Secretary of State. I'm very curious if the feds track these when they come in. Grice used a template sold by an American State National group and it seems to me that mailing some kind of declaration to the feds is a common procedure they follow. The guy quoted above works for a private organization so I understand them not tracking, but I am so curious about whether they get put on some kind of government watch list when they mail stuff to the feds.
 
Error505 said:
Here’s a recording of the live stream. It shows them walking in one at a time and then exiting one at a time, no comments today from any of the 5. Cora’s public defender escorted her inside the courtroom door. Cora looks a mess, sick look on her face. Paul Grice looks pretty sad too. No one looking too proud today, even their posture seems a little more bent. Just my observations watching a few seconds of each one.

MOO
Click to expand...
This was a long video (over 2 hrs) w/lots of waiting and standing around. The defendants all arrived separately, in different cars and with time in between, and all we see is each one helped out of the vehicle, walked in, and then walked out later, back into the vehicle, and driven away. So not much to see all in all, BUT if you just had to see their miserable faces once again (like I did), I made note of the times in the video when each one entered and exited. They may not be exact, but it's real close if not. I used the time when each one pulls up in the police car and then when the officer goes to hold the door open as they leave. Hope this helps!

16:04 Tifany Adams enters.
38:25 Cole Twombly enters.
1:14:01 Tifany exits.
1:29:14 Tad Cullum enters.
1:32:18 Cole exits.
1:44:44 Cora Twombly enters.
1:47:55 Tad exits.
2:00:40 Paul Grice enters.
2:03:10 Cora exits.
2:14:27 Paul exits.
 
PUBLIC SERVICE AWARD. SPECIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
Times when the 5 Def'ts Enter & Exit Cthouse.
sunspun said:
This was a long video (over 2 hrs) w/lots of waiting and standing around. The defendants all arrived separately, in different cars and with time in between, and all we see is each one helped out of the vehicle, walked in, and then walked out later, back into the vehicle, and driven away. So not much to see all in all, BUT if you just had to see their miserable faces once again (like I did), I made note of the times in the video when each one entered and exited. They may not be exact, but it's real close if not. I used the time when each one pulls up in the police car and then when the officer goes to hold the door open as they leave. Hope this helps!

16:04 Tifany Adams enters.
38:25 Cole Twombly enters.
1:14:01 Tifany exits.
1:29:14 Tad Cullum enters.
1:32:18 Cole exits.
1:44:44 Cora Twombly enters.
1:47:55 Tad exits.
2:00:40 Paul Grice enters.
2:03:10 Cora exits.
2:14:27 Paul exits.
Click to expand...
@sunspun
TYVM for your perseverence in watching, timing, & noting this info.

Nominating you for the :) PUBLIC SERVICE AWARD for all of us following this case.

And a :) SPECIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT to :) @Error505 for originally posting the livestream link.
 
imstilla.grandma said:
It’s as if the sovereigns believe there is a kind of magic code to legal documents, that if only they get the weird spelling and capitalization right, all of their problems will be solved. But there doesn’t appear to be a Sovereign Citizens Stylebook, and every document looks a bit different.

Some sovereign citizens also believe that the only legitimate governmental entity is the state, but they tend to view each state as a republic. McAdam said, however, he did not know why Grice spelled Oklahoma as “Oklahomat Republic.”

Reading Grice’s manifesto left me wondering how many others out there believe what he does, or at least what he professed to. McAdam said the SPLC had not heard of God’s Misfits until news broke about the arrests. He also said the center doesn’t have a way to track actual members in a movement, but that it was pretty clear the sovereign citizens were growing.

McAdam, who works for the SPLC from his home in Montana, compared the movement to a prairie twister.

“Many of these movements are like a funnel cloud or tornado, where way up in the clouds at the big end of the funnel, you have people the get pulled in for all kinds of reasons,” McAdam said. “They kind of spin out and back in again. But then there are people who really start to go down into the funnel. And as they do that, they become steeped in these conspiracy theories and worldviews. And if you go all the way through down to the ground and pop out, well those are people like Timothy McVeigh.” :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Click to expand...
Really good article. A lot to think about where these 5 are concerned. TA had her issues regarding the grchildren, TC was having custody issues regarding his child/children, and PG’s first wife had left him & moved to AK with his oldest child. Did they back this crazy plan bc of these Sov Citz beliefs twisted with the religious aspects? Then thrown in a little QAnon? OMG! Curious what others think after reading this?
MOO
 
Error505 said:
Really good article. A lot to think about where these 5 are concerned. TA had her issues regarding the grchildren, TC was having custody issues regarding his child/children, and PG’s first wife had left him & moved to AK with his oldest child. Did they back this crazy plan bc of these Sov Citz beliefs twisted with the religious aspects? Then thrown in a little QAnon? OMG! Curious what others think after reading this?
MOO
Click to expand...
Very well-written article, IMO.

But.... call me when the shuttle lands. That's all I've got.
 
Last edited:
OldAce said:
"And in which vehicle were they confined? And in what condition were they when confined?"
Most likely the trailer served as a part of blocking the road completely and quickly when attached to a truck. Also; upon stopping them , would have served as an excellent "jail" to transport.The injuries VB and JK must have sustained during resistance to extraction should yield lots of evidence in the trailer to its connection to the murders. Why LE seized it post haste and towed away. As coment..Typically a gooseneck trailer that size and length fits/often matches well with the flatbed pickup type truck drive by the Thombly's. The ball hitch on the level/clear body.

Stop, seize, jail in trailer, drive the Kia along, go to the grave site , unload, murder, bury all... With TA's calculated time timeline they could have accomplished it. Resistance at stop site, incapacitated KIA, rush to move along. Then returning to take care of the KIA, VB's relatives and/or LE may have been on site as they approach. Too late...
Click to expand...
This is the best scenario I’ve read so far! It makes sense!
 
Error505 said:
Really good article. A lot to think about where these 5 are concerned. TA had her issues regarding the grchildren, TC was having custody issues regarding his child/children, and PG’s first wife had left him & moved to AK with his oldest child. Did they back this crazy plan bc of these Sov Citz beliefs twisted with the religious aspects? Then thrown in a little QAnon? OMG! Curious what others think after reading this?
MOO
Click to expand...

Grice believes his kids are his property and probably thought he was helping Adams keep her "property."

Paul Grice Quote:

“I am a free and natural man, described by the Lord God in Genesis 2:7 as a living soul, living under God’s law and his grace alone,” the document continued.

“I claim my children,” it reads, listing their names and birthdates, as he adds they are his “God-given property and subject to none other.”
www.independent.co.uk

Revealed: Extremist views of latest ‘God’s Misfits’ murder suspect

Paul Grice, 31, and four others have been charged in the murders of two women who police believed were lured to their deaths during a pre-arranged child custody visit
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

It continued with, “there is a maximum law that says ‘what one creates one controls’: the government did not create my children and therefore does not control my children. God created my children in their mother’s womb with my sperm and are my creation, my property, and I waive none of my God-given rights or duties in the upbringing of my offspring.”
 
sunspun said:
This was a long video (over 2 hrs) w/lots of waiting and standing around. The defendants all arrived separately, in different cars and with time in between, and all we see is each one helped out of the vehicle, walked in, and then walked out later, back into the vehicle, and driven away. So not much to see all in all, BUT if you just had to see their miserable faces once again (like I did), I made note of the times in the video when each one entered and exited. They may not be exact, but it's real close if not. I used the time when each one pulls up in the police car and then when the officer goes to hold the door open as they leave. Hope this helps!

16:04 Tifany Adams enters.
38:25 Cole Twombly enters.
1:14:01 Tifany exits.
1:29:14 Tad Cullum enters.
1:32:18 Cole exits.
1:44:44 Cora Twombly enters.
1:47:55 Tad exits.
2:00:40 Paul Grice enters.
2:03:10 Cora exits.
2:14:27 Paul exits.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU for the times! I've watched 2-3 times. Since I've never watched a case like this before, I need to ask if this is extraordinary security? And if it is, where is the credible threat?

"The next one's going to be rough" an officer is heard saying between Tad Cullum going in and Cole Twombly exiting. WHY? I didn't notice anything unusual as Cole was escorted out. On the other hand for Tad, the female officer holding the door was there for a very long time before the group came. There were two escorts instead of three out, and when Tad entered, the same clean shaven officer had not accompanied the group inside. When Tad exited, he was very alert looking around, looking hard toward a corner. The clean shaven officer joined the group at the car and opened the door. Tad turned in a peculiar manner to seat himself . . . .

Would they use all this time and manpower just to prevent the defendants from seeing each other or exchanging info?

Are they receiving threats that suggest other Sovereign Citizens will try to break them out? Even if a few SCs own a fleet of helicopters and planes and they decide to shoot it out, isn't Guymon Oklahoma too far inland to even be able to clear American airspace? Maybe the possibility exists for a lot of blood shed, but I don't see a group able to "free" these five, does anyone else?

Is the danger to each of the defendants? That a family member might be so grief-stricken they are willing to risk everything to take out the defendants. If the defs are ever exposed in a public place at the same time, it might be possible to get more than just one. I think this might make the most sense.

Just womdering about the security... Is it a "better safe than sorry" philosophy?
 
Last edited:
CuriousCricket said:
Is the danger to each of the defendants? That a family member might be so grief-stricken they are willing to risk everything to take out the defendants. If the defs are ever exposed in a public place at the same time, it might be possible to get more than just one. I think this might make the most sense.

Just womdering about the security... Is it a "better safe than sorry" philosophy?
Click to expand...
Great post, snipped for focus by me. All five defendants were wearing bullet-proof vests. The spectators were few, but it only takes one. I think that's the design protocol behind the solo entrances and exits of each defendant.

I wonder if any of them were disappointed by the very thin crowd of onlookers. IMO, indifference can be terribly upsetting to self-righteous narcissists.
 
Muddy K said:
Great post, snipped for focus by me. All five defendants were wearing bullet-proof vests. The spectators were few, but it only takes one. I think that's the design protocol behind the solo entrances and exits of each defendant.

I wonder if any of them were disappointed by the very thin crowd of onlookers. IMO, indifference can be terribly upsetting to self-righteous narcissists.
Click to expand...
How wonderfully fun. Hope they were. Maybe Tad was wondering where all his groupies were and whether he's off the front pages across the country. To me, he had an alert, looking for someone attitude that seemed different from the others.

I've wondered who was allowed inside the courthouse and courtroom. Did any of them have family present?
 
CuriousCricket said:
Are they receiving threats that suggest other Sovereign Citizens will try to break them out?
Click to expand...
I don't think they need specific threats to be on high alert.
These five SovCits got together and planned and carried out the execution of two innocent women. Yes, they are worried; they don't know what other violent extremists these five might be allied with.

The FBI website has a good over view on how scary and dangerous SovCit extremists can be: Sovereign Citizens A Growing Domestic Threat to Law Enforcement
Snip: "However, a closer look at sovereign citizens’ more severe crimes, from financial scams to impersonating or threatening law enforcement officials, gives reason for concern. If someone challenges (e.g., a standard traffic stop for false license plates) their ideology, the behavior of these sovereign-citizen extremists quickly can escalate to violence. Since 2000, lone-offender sovereign-citizen extremists have killed six law enforcement officers."
 
CuriousCricket said:
THANK YOU for the times! I've watched 2-3 times. Since I've never watched a case like this before, I need to ask if this is extraordinary security? And if it is, where is the credible threat?

"The next one's going to be rough" an officer is heard saying between Tad Cullum going in and Cole Twombly exiting. WHY? I didn't notice anything unusual as Cole was escorted out. On the other hand for Tad, the female officer holding the door was there for a very long time before the group came. There were two escorts instead of three out, and when Tad entered, the same clean shaven officer had not accompanied the group inside. When Tad exited, he was very alert looking around, looking hard toward a corner. The clean shaven officer joined the group at the car and opened the door. Tad turned in a peculiar manner to seat himself . . . .

Would they use all this time and manpower just to prevent the defendants from seeing each other or exchanging info?

Are they receiving threats that suggest other Sovereign Citizens will try to break them out? Even if a few SCs own a fleet of helicopters and planes and they decide to shoot it out, isn't Guymon Oklahoma too far inland to even be able to clear American airspace? Maybe the possibility exists for a lot of blood shed, but I don't see a group able to "free" these five, does anyone else?

Is the danger to each of the defendants? That a family member might be so grief-stricken they are willing to risk everything to take out the defendants. If the defs are ever exposed in a public place at the same time, it might be possible to get more than just one. I think this might make the most sense.

Just womdering about the security... Is it a "better safe than sorry" philosophy?
Click to expand...

I think they are just taking all precautions.
 
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