GUILTY OR - Brooke Wilberger, 19, Eugene, 24 May 2004 - #2

[Bobbisangel]

As law enforcement officials prepare to prosecute Joel Patrick Courtney in the death of Brooke Wilberger, detectives investigating other homicides and violent crimes in Oregon and across the country are reviewing their cases for similarities.

Authorities in Corvallis and Albuquerque, N.M., each recently have fielded calls from law enforcement agencies after Corvallis police said they had charged Courtney with kidnapping, rape, sodomy, sexual abuse and aggravated murder in the death of Wilberger

I'm confused here....they don't have Brooke's body so how did they know what charges to bring against the killer? It looks like they have covered about everything a man can do to a woman...but how do they know that he did all of these things? How can they make all of these charges stick in court without her body to tell them what happened to her? Did he tell the LE everything that he did to Brooke?

 

[Anngelique]

I'm confused here....they don't have Brooke's body so how did they know what charges to bring against the killer? It looks like they have covered about everything a man can do to a woman...but how do they know that he did all of these things? How can they make all of these charges stick in court without her body to tell them what happened to her? Did he tell the LE everything that he did to Brooke?

I do daycare for a Assistant DA here in Salem. Salem is one county over from the one Brooke's case is being tried in. Anyway, my good friend and daycare mom said it is very common to try someone like this. In fact it is how Scott Peterson was tried. They use theories. Right now they charge him with all these theories by what type of evidence they have and get all their areas covered. They can drop some as they learn more or they can go to court with that many. She said in Oregon it is a very common practice and does not minimize the case in the least. So I have faith that everything will be okay.

 

[Anngelique]

Anngelique, I've been wondering how your relative who was so sick and up at OSHU or Shriners hospital. I hope everything is well with him - your nephew, right? I have thought about him so often and even pictured you driving up to the hospital and going to visit.

xoxoxo Scandi

Thanks for asking Scandi. He is still in the vegetative state. Their family has been denied medical care by their insurance and Social Security. So Senator Gordon Smith's office just looked into it and it looks like they might finally get some help. His medical bills run $8000 a day. Ouch!

 

[Anngelique]

http://katu.com/stories/78971.html

Does Courtney's DNA Link Him To Wilberger?

By Anna Song
and KATU Web Staff
SEASIDE, Ore. - Court documents obtained by KATU News reveal potential DNA evidence against the man accused of murdering Brooke Wilberger.

This comes as prosecutors from all over the state gather in Seaside for a conference, including Benton County District Attorney Scott Heiser, who is involved with the Wilberger case.

Heiser would not confirm whether forensic evidence is the key link between Joel Courtney and Brooke Wilberger, but the court documents indicate that as far back as February, Corvallis police wanted and got Joel Courtney's DNA.

The court records show that on February 10, 2005, a judge in New Mexico granted Corvallis police a search warrant for Joel Patrick Courtney.

Courtney was already in custody at that point for the alleged kidnapping and sexual assault of a woman near the University of New Mexico campus.

The February warrant led authorities to take DNA evidence from Courtney - his fingerprints from both hands, swabs of saliva from his mouth and various hair from his face and pubic area.


Heiser will not confirm whether the evidence was gathered to match DNA material found in a green Dodge minivan that has been described as the 'key' link connecting Courtney to the Wilberger case.


While at the conference on Wednesday, Heiser declined an on-camera interview, but told KATU News he has had several conversations with Brooke's family about their feelings on the death penalty.

Legal experts say one possibility in cases like this is to offer the defendant life in prison in exchange for information on the victim's whereabouts.

The District Attorney who prosecuted Scott Peterson in the murder of his wife, Laci, says that discussion came up in his case.

"It would have been a consideration had Scott said 'I'll do that.' I'd have had to talk to the family and basically, that would be their decision," Jim Brazelton told KATU News.

However, Scott Peterson never struck that type of a deal and a jury sentenced him to death.

As for the Wilberger case, Heiser referred us to last week's press conference to get a sense of whether her family would consider a deal of that sort.

"Our main goal remains the same - to find her and see that justice is served," Brooke's mother, Cammy Wilberger, said at that news conference

 

[mysteriew]

I'm confused here....they don't have Brooke's body so how did they know what charges to bring against the killer? It looks like they have covered about everything a man can do to a woman...but how do they know that he did all of these things? How can they make all of these charges stick in court without her body to tell them what happened to her? Did he tell the LE everything that he did to Brooke?

I have brought that up before. I can understand kidnapping, I can even understand murder- depending on evidence found in the van, I can even understand sexual assault- though I wonder what evidence they could have to indicate that. But sodomy? Since there is no body to get evidence from- that almost leads me to think there is a confession or a witness.
I have another question. Where did they locate the green van (full of evidence)? It was a company van- did they find it at the company or did he ditch the van somewhere and quit? Or was the van in the company parking lot all that time? If so, then there may be other drivers and that is going to make the evidence in the van harder to tie into him.

 

[Beffie]

I have brought that up before. I can understand kidnapping, I can even understand murder- depending on evidence found in the van, I can even understand sexual assault- though I wonder what evidence they could have to indicate that. But sodomy? Since there is no body to get evidence from- that almost leads me to think there is a confession or a witness.
I have another question. Where did they locate the green van (full of evidence)? It was a company van- did they find it at the company or did he ditch the van somewhere and quit? Or was the van in the company parking lot all that time? If so, then there may be other drivers and that is going to make the evidence in the van harder to tie into him.

I was confused about that also. Then I read on www.kgw.com (no direct link to article) his court papers about the rape of the exchange student in New Mexico. I imagine he would do the same to all his victims. I will see if I can find the report. You have to sign in and I do not have a sign in name and password, and none of the ones on bugmenot.com work, or I should say I quit trying after about 10 unsuccessful tries.

Sorry I could not find it. If I run across it I will post it.

 

[Anngelique]

August 10, 2005
Former detective talks about experience with Joel Courtney


http://www.katu.com/stories/78939.html

By KATU Web Staff
PORTLAND, Ore. - The man accused of murdering Brooke Wilberger is remembered by a Washington County detective as a cruel, abusive person.

Mike Graham investigated Joel Courtney 20 years ago when the man was convicted of sexual assault.

Courtney is currently being held on rape charges in New Mexico and Graham says that is almost predictable for a man who once tried to rape a friend.

"He needed a ride and she simply offered him a ride home," he said. "Probably the most striking thing about the attempted rape is that he did not have a lot of empathy. He attacked her rather aggressively, especially considering she was a friend."

Graham says Courtney's appearance has changed so much in the last 20 years, he would not have recognized him.

However, he says serial rapists and murderers often alter their appearance, like Courtney did when he shaved his head.

 

[scandi]

Hi Mysteriew,

We have read that he has driven all over the country, and so am thinking he might have posession of the van and keeps it where he stays. Do you know if the company he works for is near where he lives in New Mexico?

A kind of surly sloppy and impulsive guy is how I read him, and so he could have been careless thinking no one would ever connect him to Brooke. For all we know there might have been some of her clothing in the van which he just didn't have the heart to dispose of. Or possibly the piece of jewelry she was wearing - which could also have blood spatter on it. If he did hit her across the head to silence her screams, for instance, she would bleed. He could have tried to wash out blood but luminol would still pick it up.

Sodomy is a hard one. Brother, I think if her undies were there with his saliva on them. I think there was a goldmine of forensic evidence to greet LE once they found the van.

When was the announcement about the green van? Remember it said they knew where it was but wanted to know if anyone had seen it on that day on a logging road, or anywhere doing something suspicious. Well in mid Feb they filed to get his DNA. They must have thought it was him all along. Boy these are cracker jack detectives, putting out the announcement and then giving the public nothing else! That's the way it should be, unfortunately! LOL

Scandi

 

[mysteriew]

I was confused about that also. Then I read on www.kgw.com (no direct link to article) his court papers about the rape of the exchange student in New Mexico. I imagine he would do the same to all his victims. I will see if I can find the report. You have to sign in and I do not have a sign in name and password, and none of the ones on bugmenot.com work, or I should say I quit trying after about 10 unsuccessful tries.

Sorry I could not find it. If I run across it I will post it.

But what he did with another victim would not constitute proof of what he did with Brooke.

Sodomy is a hard one. Brother, I think if her undies were there with his saliva on them. I think there was a goldmine of forensic evidence to greet LE once they found the van.

Even if his saliva was on her panties- he could have spit or drooled and it ended up on her panties.

 

[mysteriew]

from findlaw.com:
sodomy
['sä-de-me]

Anglo-French sodomie sexual intercourse between men, from Old French, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom, from the supposed homosexual practices of the men of the city in Genesis 19:1-11

: the crime of oral or anal sexual contact or penetration between persons or of sexual intercourse between a person and an animal

esp
: the crime of forcing another person to perform oral or anal sex

 

[scandi]

Thanks Mysteriew.

I didn't even think of anal sex, but if they found something in the van that had excrement on it that had Brooke's DNA, wouldn't that lend itself to proof she was in the van and that she was sodomized? All theories of LE, but they would have to have something to back up each theory, right?


Scandi

 

[mysteriew]

Thanks Mysteriew.

I didn't even think of anal sex, but if they found something in the van that had excrement on it that had Brooke's DNA, wouldn't that lend itself to proof she was in the van and that she was sodomized? All theories of LE, but they would have to have something to back up each theory, right?


Scandi

Right, that was my point. Even if they found excrement mixed with DNA from him- that is going to be a hard one to prove at trial.

 

[Bobbisangel]

It's hard to say what evidence LE has but they have to have something that ties him to Brook's murder and the sexual stuff. I'm still puzzled over the sodemy. That defination said that sodemy was either anal or oral sex. I've never heard of oral sex being called sodemy. I've always thought sodemy was anal sex...period. Isn't there another name for oral sex...starting with an f ?

In order to arrest and charge this creep they have to have something to prove that he murdered Brooke and raped, etc, her.

Poor little Brooke...outside doing her job earning her summer money never dreaming this pervert would come along and lift her right out of her shoes, take her away and murder her along with everything else he must have done.
I just don't know how parents learn to cope with the horror their children went through before their deaths. I really believe it would drive me out of my mind.

Why was this killer out of prison? I doubt that he behaved himself between the time he got out of prison and his next known victim. Oh how I dispise these sex offenders. I'm for the death penalty for this guy.

 

[scandi]

Hi Bobbie,

I think the word you refer to is 'cunningless' or something very similar.

Rape is about control and is violent, and this gtuy has a history of a sexual attack go9ing back some twenty years I think. And I have heard too many learned people say that they can not be healed. Sometimes if they are castrated they still want to do it again. Good thing I'm not involved in the making of law, as on their 2nd offense I'd have their ba!!s removed and find a different way to go pee! Mod, if that is too strong I'll delete that part. It just frosts my goat that time after tims we see this same thing over and over. There has to be a stop to it.



Scandi

 

[mysteriew]

What exactly happened to Courtney remains unclear. Courtney's wife, other family members and his attorney aren't talking. Likewise, Oregon investigators refuse to offer any details of their case against him.

But court documents and interviews with neighbors and New Mexico officials paint a portrait of an under-employed and angry man who at times drank too much and frightened his wife and children. He also was facing financial pressure. And when he was arrested last year, Albuquerque police found Courtney with a glass pipe for smoking crack cocaine.

Court records indicate Courtney, 39, spent much of 2004 on the road, traveling from Florida to Oregon and back to New Mexico. He drove cars registered to other people and companies. Whether his movements mean anything remains a mystery for now, but police think they've taken a dangerous predator off the streets.

It could be months before more details become public. Whatley, the Albuquerque assistant district attorney, said Oregon officials want her to complete the prosecution of Courtney on the Albuquerque rape and kidnapping charges before they try to bring him back to Oregon.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/front_page/112392716624880.xml&coll=7
This article contains some info on how the connection to Wilberger started as a hunch.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

It's hard to say what evidence LE has but they have to have something that ties him to Brook's murder and the sexual stuff. I'm still puzzled over the sodemy. That defination said that sodemy was either anal or oral sex. I've never heard of oral sex being called sodemy. I've always thought sodemy was anal sex...period. Isn't there another name for oral sex...starting with an f ?

I also never realized that it could mean oral sex. There are two words for oral - fellatio (performed on a male) and cunnilingus (performed on a female). I must admit that I've never heard these words in relation to a sexual crime so perhaps sodomy does refer to this as well?

 

[Izzy Mae]

I also never realized that it could mean oral sex. There are two words for oral - fellatio (performed on a male) and cunnilingus (performed on a female). I must admit that I've never heard these words in relation to a sexual crime so perhaps sodomy does refer to this as well?

Hi JG.
Long time no chat

I've always been under the impression that sodomy meant *one* thing, too. But you're right, it means both - apparently w/ an animal as well.

Legal Dictionary
sod·omy
n.
[Anglo-French sodomie sexual intercourse between men, from Old French, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom, from the supposed homosexual practices of the men of the city in Genesis 19:1-11]
The crime of oral or anal sexual contact or penetration between persons or of sexual intercourse between a person and an animal; esp The crime of forcing another person to perform oral or anal sex sod·om·ize http://www.answers.com/sodomy​

Interesting, huh?

 

[lynie]

Hi Everybody...just got back from vacation too, and didn't want to read all of the "Oregonians" stacked up on my dining room table! Came here instead!

I think in regard to Brooke's body, that we have to consider she could be almost anywhere. If he was driving north from Corvallis to Rickreal, it would be very easy to head east and catch I-5, and go north or south. Also, he could have just as easily go through Salem and over the Santiam Hwy to Central/Eastern Oregon.

We just got back from camping for a week in central Oregon, and from Salem it takes only about 1 1/2 hrs to get to the national forest, and another 1 1/2 hours to get to the desolate high desert area. Many places where the only living things are wild animals....

Since he grew up here he would certainly know these areas, and if he traveled on the job as much as he apparently did, the travel time would be easily done and hidden.

Just a thought....

 

[scandi]

Hi Lynie,

Good point! I still think if there was a foree in the van near Rickreall, which we have good and witnessed evidence of the car swerving there, he would be then itching to finish up with her and get rid of her body. He's impulsive and seems like he goes on emotion. I can't imagine him driving with her for a couple of hours in the car! Wouldn't that make him paranoid he might get stopped?

Scandi

 

[lynie]

Hi Lynie,

Good point! I still think if there was a foree in the van near Rickreall, which we have good and witnessed evidence of the car swerving there, he would be then itching to finish up with her and get rid of her body. He's impulsive and seems like he goes on emotion. I can't imagine him driving with her for a couple of hours in the car! Wouldn't that make him paranoid he might get stopped?

Scandi

Hey Scandi!

Itchin' for rain like me? I'm HOT! ;o)

I don't think he would go far with her alive, I doubt she made it out of the Corvallis/Salem area. In fact the name of the little town Falls City keeps coming to my mind...not that it has ever been mentioned by anyone. It is just curious that the van was seen swerving around Rickreal....Was she still alive and fighting? Was he trying to "mop" or clean up something he didn't want spreading in the van (icky thought, I know)?

The thing that bothers me about him driving recklessly around Rickreal is that there are not a lot of hiding spots in that vicinity. Yes, many country roads but in that part of the valley the land is fairly flat or rolling hills, with more crops than forests. Yes, some of the roads can be very deserted but are pretty out in the open until you get closer to the west and the forests. Maybe it is just not the place that I would choose to hide a body...guess thankfully I wouldn't be very good at it!