OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - #17

[gliving]

Parent Gina Zimmerman said she last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his "red-eyed tree frog" science project. She said her daughter is one of Kyron’s best friends and she knew him well.

Zimmerman said that Kyron was not the type of child to wander off. "He knows 'stranger danger," she said. "He's a really good kid."

www.krem.com/

Gina is also the PTA pres.

 

[frenchvixen]

Good coverage on Nightline last night:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/

This case is eerily similar to the Etan Patz case. The length of time that it took Etan's mom to know that he never made it to school b/c she was not notified was crucial.

O/T - one of our managers at the law firm were I work was just let go b/c it turns out he was a sex offender. He worked there for two years and the firm supposedly does background checks on all employees. The reason why it was found out was because another employee did a simple google of his name and there it was for all too see: rape in the first degree and a sodomy charge. Although he is 49 now and this crime was committed when he was 18 he was let go. The crime was in Florida and our firm is in NYC. Sometimes employees do not do thorough background checks even though they say they do. I know that most board of eds fingerprint their employees but I would double check every single employee at the school including contractors and vendors.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Exactly debs, all the more troubling to me why the SM would leave the home where Kyron quite possibly could return to if he wandered away from the school alone earlier in the day.

I think different people have different reactions in emergency situations.

If it were my child, the very first thing I'd do is dash to the place of the last confirmed siting of my child. And I'd probably do something stupid like leave my cell phone and purse behind!

I would figure that if my child came home while I was gone s/he would have the sense to sit on the front porch step and wait for me.

In the Riley Fox case, when her brother woke her father up to tell him Riley was missing, Kevin Fox's immediate reaction was to search outside for approximately 40 minutes. This was seen as highly suspicious... but they have since arrested a suspect based on DNA evidence. So Kevin Fox's reaction was just his normal, individual reaction in an emergency, not indicating guilt at all.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Good coverage on Nightline last night:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/

Are they still saying this is not an abduction?

 

[TopTop]

I might run out looking for them too, but I would make sure someone was at my home waiting in case he did wander away from the school on his own and the way the report sounds it seems as though LE had to ask one of the parents to go back home. Of course we don't know exactly what happened and I am only speculating based on the information we do have.

I'm trying to put myself in that situation. I would never think that my kids might wander home on their own. They would never do it. My thought would be that they got on the wrong bus (highly unlikely knowing my children) or the most likely scenerio is that for some reason they missed their bus ( they were wasting time doing something else, last minute bathroom break, something happened to them to prevent them from getting on the bus etc). Therefore, I wouldn't worry about leaving someone at home. In my mind there is NO way my kids would get home without the bus.

 

[elle1919]

Are they still saying this is not an abduction?

IIRC the last they stated was that it was not a stranger abduction.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

If my child did not get off the bus, I, too, would go to the school if that's where I thought he was all day.

If he didn't get on the bus, then I would assume he would be somewhere at the school and I would fly my butt there, even leaving my house empty (doors unlocked, of course).

There's really no way I would sit home and wait for someone to call me with an update! I would want to be right there, on the scene.

On another note, someone mentioned the "we" in Kaine's email to his co-workers. I could see my own husband saying the same, even if it were only one of us that went to the bus stop to get our child off the bus. It implies solidarity.

I am still boggled as to why LE hasn't said in a statement that the parents are ruled out if they are indeed ruled out. It would really help the public help them find this child if it is true.

 

[For The Kids]

I am still boggled as to why LE hasn't said in a statement that the parents are ruled out if they are indeed ruled out. It would really help the public help them find this child if it is true.

I totally agree with this

 

[krazyfingerzz]

Well I was just looking for the transcript of the scanner chatter we looked so hard for last night, and now I can't find it. I'll do some more hunting and link it in in a few. (Please note we can't post the transcript in this thread, we can only link to it.)

Anyway, the scanner chatter does make it appear to me that the stepmom and biodad were at the school, and LE asked for one of them to go back to the house.

It actually just says that they've told the parents that one needs to be home. Dad might have been at work or en route...it's not specific, and I had apologized way back for incorrectly reading the scanner chatter to mean both parents were at the school.

By the way, my son was in kindergarten and I was late to the stop. The driver (great guy) wouldn't drop him without me there and so took him to the next school ( he was done with my son's route and up the street was the next school). Both bus companies (kyron's and son's) are First Student, and their policy is not to leave little kids (up to I don't know what grade) at a stop without a parent. He radioed the bus company who called both schools, and the school called me. That's the policy, so I think that bus driver probably radioed in when SM found Kyron not to be there. It's also on the scanner saying that the school called police, so that points further to the bus calling in and school calling LE.

Ok...I'm up earlier than usual after a big night of pierogis so I'm going to have coffee and try to get used to this thing people call "morning"...

 

[manybooks]

Very possible that SOMEONE was at the house (with baby sister?) at the time, so both parents went quickly in search of Kyron (directly to the last place he was KNOWN to be - school - makes sense to me)
But LE wanted a parent at home so they had someone to contact there.

 

[watchful_eye]

what is this about a truck being towed? Sorry, I haven't had time to read posts since yesterday at around 4.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

I'm finding many things about this case just odd.

Vigil a symbol of hope for Kyron’s safe return

Kyron’s parents and stepparents watched the vigil from a private room.

:waitasec:

I cannot even imagine what the motive could be to not want to be surrounded by and touched by people who have their beautiful son in their hearts.

 

[Calliope]

Parent Gina Zimmerman said she last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his "red-eyed tree frog" science project. She said her daughter is one of Kyron’s best friends and she knew him well.

Zimmerman said that Kyron was not the type of child to wander off. "He knows 'stranger danger," she said. "He's a really good kid."

www.krem.com/

Gina is also the PTA pres.

IMO, a kid in school is going to feel safe (as well they should!).

So here we have a situation where there are many kids, parents, volunteers and staff milling about. Kyron sees these "strangers" and even though he doesn't necessarily know them, logic would tell him that these people are "ok". After all, the school itself is allowing them to be around and interact with all the kids. A perfectly reasonable assumption on his part.

Knowing he's inside a safe place, surrounded by people he knows are there to watch out for him, his guard is going to be way down. In an environment like this, I have no doubt most adults wouldn't consider the 'stranger danger' element as they would elsewhere (which btw could explain why it seems no one noticed anything unusual). So why should we expect a 7 year old child to be any more vigilant??

Given these circumstances, someone with intentions on taking a child would already have a huge advantage, for not only the kids but adults as well would never in a million years expect that something like this could happen.

Now all that is left is for that predator to find a vulnerable child, one who is separated from the group, away from an adult, close to an exit.

On Ethan's FB someone posted a link to a news report about an online child predator handbook. It's actually a how-to manual on how to stalk, groom, abduct children. I didn't have the nerve to go look for it online, but I'm willing to bet that it includes tips on how to take advantage of situations like this. I'll get a link to the report and post it.

 

[debs]

Y'all don't want me to relay the nightmare Princess PeePee just relayed. Suffice to say that discussing stranger danger with your child isn't nearly enough. Establishing defensive moves is also necessary.

Now I'd like to go cry because her nightmare has been my nightmare since it nearly happened to me when I was her age. CRIMINY!!!

 

[Calliope]

I'm finding many things about this case just odd.

Vigil a symbol of hope for Kyron’s safe return

Kyron’s parents and stepparents watched the vigil from a private room.

:waitasec:

I cannot even imagine what the motive could be to not want to be surrounded by and touched by people who have their beautiful son in their hearts.

I can understand. Some people are not comfortable sharing their grief with strangers. Motive? I think that's a bit ironic. Just witness how their every move, word and expression is picked apart here and elsewhere.


I don't know if it's a 'southern thing' but the funeral homes down here have separate rooms with privacy louvers (not sure how else to describe them) where immediate family (or anyone, I suppose) can view the service without being front and center in the chapel. That's the first thing I thought of when I read this.

 

[ci2i]

what is this about a truck being towed? Sorry, I haven't had time to read posts since yesterday at around 4.

It was towed to a local repair shop for repairs.

I'm finding many things about this case just odd.

Vigil a symbol of hope for Kyron’s safe return

Kyron’s parents and stepparents watched the vigil from a private room.

:waitasec:

I cannot even imagine what the motive could be to not want to be surrounded by and touched by people who have their beautiful son in their hearts.

Honestly, I become paralyzed with grief and often admire the parents who have the strength to attend these. I personally do not believe I would be able to attend one if it were me.

On Ethan's FB someone posted a link to a news report about an online child predator handbook. It's actually a how-to manual on how to stalk, groom, abduct children. I didn't have the nerve to go look for it online, but I'm willing to bet that it includes tips on how to take advantage of situations like this. I'll get a link to the report and post it.

Now that's just plain sick.....

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Are we hearing any more of if and where they are searching right now?I just pray the find Kyron.

 

[raeann]

I'm finding many things about this case just odd.

Vigil a symbol of hope for Kyron’s safe return

Kyron’s parents and stepparents watched the vigil from a private room.

:waitasec:

I cannot even imagine what the motive could be to not want to be surrounded by and touched by people who have their beautiful son in their hearts.

I would say this even further indicates concern for the safety of the family, and at the very least wanting to protect them from a disturbance of some kind in the vigil, if one of the many vehement "accusers" showed up to verbally attack the sm. It seems it would be the best way to insure that the vigil proceeded as it was meant to in a quiet and respectful manner. It would be easy enough to allow friends of the family to meet with them in a private room after others had left.

jmoo

 

[krazyfingerzz]

If my child did not get off the bus, I, too, would go to the school if that's where I thought he was all day.

If he didn't get on the bus, then I would assume he would be somewhere at the school and I would fly my butt there, even leaving my house empty (doors unlocked, of course).

There's really no way I would sit home and wait for someone to call me with an update! I would want to be right there, on the scene.

On another note, someone mentioned the "we" in Kaine's email to his co-workers. I could see my own husband saying the same, even if it were only one of us that went to the bus stop to get our child off the bus. It implies solidarity.

I am still boggled as to why LE hasn't said in a statement that the parents are ruled out if they are indeed ruled out. It would really help the public help them find this child if it is true.

I have been doing some thinking and reading all over the Net, lol, and I have a stronger belief in my theory as regards the parents. It's funny that people are losing objectivity, both sides, and reading only certain things. Many of the sites don't believe it was stepmom, and I don't either. I believe it was someone kyron knows, and very possibly someone known to the school. What school-related people, maybe even employees, would have been done working so that le didn't have to worry about a repeat attack? Why not a parent of a friend, who may have even helped unknowingly to lure kyron outside? (I'm less likely to believe that as I think this person has fewer familial responsibilities than others, and a parent would pose a threat to their own kids, even under close surveillance). I don't believe it was a stranger but someone he trusted. The more I see LE not clear SM, and even the whole truck towing thing, I wonder if they aren't using her as a decoy or distraction. I cannot believe her family would put up with this if they had doubts about her, period. I really think, as far fetched as it may sound, that they really have an idea who the perp is, it's someone in a position of trust, close to ground zero, and the family is bravely doing all they can to help bring their son home. Btw, there is nothing out there on any site that says this. It's my opinion, plain and simple.

 

[Calliope]

Here the report on the "pedophile playbook" I talked about in the post above:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Exposing-the-Pedophile-Playbook-94891204.html

The NBC10 Investigators team up with state and federal law enforcement to help you turn the tables on pedophiles. We are exposing the secrets of child sex abusers.

We have uncovered a "Pedophile Playbook" and it's available online. That's right, a how-to guide that's dedicated to teaching adults how to get close to and sexually abuse your children.

Police are aware of this book and want to make sure you are too. The more information you know, the more power you have to protect your child.

Video report at link.