OR - Legal protections for Followers of Christ to end/no more faith-healing reliance

[mommy23]

It is hard to see where to draw the line, but with the link upthread, it seems as though CPS can step in already :waitasec: However they would have to know medical neglect was happening, how would they know???

I fully believe in alternative medicine, I selectively vaccinate my kids, I use minimal antibiotics, I believe antibiotics are way over prescribed still. And I rarely even do the well child exams. However, my daughter was born with asthma, and when my baby turned blue for the first time, I didn't think of anything other than getting her to a hospital fast. I cannot imagine not having that thought when your child is gravely ill!!! It is so sad, and these people need to be stopped.

I really wonder how many kids we have never heard of that have passed on in some of these families

 

[Missizzy]

IIRC, several of the comments I linked to above mention that the children of The Followers of Christ do not have birth certificates so that's a valid question. I, too, have wondered why the law needs to be changed given that it's quite clear. If you'll note that long list of articles I linked to, though, the State has been haggling with this group for decades.

I wonder how many children have died from a simple asthma attack or even choking. I'm just not understanding doing nothing other than prayer. From what I've read, they don't even set bones. One would think that they'd have a specialized person who could do these things. I could certainly go along with that. But not setting a bone at all?

And flourish, if you ever find those journal articles about prayer modulating blood sugar, can you please forward them to me. I guess I've missed them too.

 

[Missizzy]

A history of articles posted by the Oregonian concerning The Followers:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/2009/06/faithhealing_deaths_previous_s.html

Lots of interesting info here about Oregon and also about how other states deal with this issue. Nothing has really changed in over 20 years.

ETA: I highly suggest that anyone interested in this issue peruse this link. Very in-depth coverage of lots of cases.

 

[mommy23]

I have a crazy work sched tonight and tomorrow, I will read those by monday, and then give my response ;0

 

[Missizzy]

I'd love to hear some feedback on this video if anyone cares to watch it. We don't often get to hear a presiding judge speak about a complicated case.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-ci...case_at_lewis_and_clark_law_school_event.html

Judge Steven Maurer discusses Followers of Christ case at Lewis and Clark Law School event

"It's been a year since Clackamas County Circuit Judge Steven L. Maurer sentenced Jeffrey and Marci Beagley to prison. The Beagleys, members of the Followers of Christ – an Oregon City church that practices faith-healing and rejects medical treatment – were convicted on criminally negligent homicide. The Beagleys failed to provide medical care for their 16-year-old son, NB, who died in 2008 of complications from an untreated urinary blockage.

On anniversary eve of the sentencing, Maurer appeared as a guest speaker at Lewis and Clark Law School. He discussed the Beagley case, some of the legal issues involved and answered questions from students....."

and

"...Maurer also was the judge in another high-profile case involving Followers of Christ members Raylene and Carl Brent Worthington...."

more at link (51 minute video, which I have not seen)

 

[peeples]

http://www.kptv.com/health/27150802/detail.html

Oregon's House of Representatives has passed a bill that would remove legal protections for parents who rely on faith healing to care for their sick children.

 

[Missizzy]

Let's hope it passes the Senate.

 

[Missizzy]

It passed!! I wrote to every legislator I could think of, urging them to vote for this law. I was a little surprised that 5 people voted against it, though. I've read that Gov. Kitzhaber has indicated that he's very willing to sign this bill into law.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/05/oregon_senate_votes_to_end_fai.html

Oregon Senate votes to end faith healing defense for medical care

"Oregon is on the brink of ending the legal protection for parents who rely on faith healing instead of seeking medical care for their children.

On a 25-5 vote, the state Senate on Monday joined the House in passing a measure that was sparked by the heavily publicized deaths of children whose families belong to an Oregon City church, the Followers of Christ.

The Senate added a provision that would make House Bill 2721 take effect immediately after it is signed into law. It now returns to the House, which is expected to quickly send it on to the governor...."

more at link

 

[southcitymom]

I know that people aren't cured from colds, pharyngitis (the cause of sore throats), etc due to prayer because of scientific advancements. Science has taught us all about our immune system. We have proof that we all have an immune system; however there is no actual proof that our immune system is connected to prayer or anything of that nature. A belief is not proof. I don't understand how people can insist that their illness went away because they prayed, when there are people in 3rd world countries who are starving. It just seems pretty self-centered to act like God favors you more than he favors them.

UBM

Faith is not something that can be proven scientifically - that's the nature of it, having a deep belief in something without having what we humans consider "proof."

 

[southcitymom]

Exactly... It is a CULT and needs to be stopped. I almost worry now if they pass legislation, if there would be a mass death of some kind.... :sick:

I don't think this argument is about picking on a specific religion.... This is a group of people that are harming others in their group. Thanks for the links Missizzy You are always so on top of things!

Imho, cults and religions are the same thing. 'Cult' is the name we've come up with for religions we find unpopular, immoral or otherwise disagree with.

 

[southcitymom]

It passed!! I wrote to every legislator I could think of, urging them to vote for this law. I was a little surprised that 5 people voted against it, though. I've read that Gov. Kitzhaber has indicated that he's very willing to sign this bill into law.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/05/oregon_senate_votes_to_end_fai.html

Oregon Senate votes to end faith healing defense for medical care

"Oregon is on the brink of ending the legal protection for parents who rely on faith healing instead of seeking medical care for their children.

On a 25-5 vote, the state Senate on Monday joined the House in passing a measure that was sparked by the heavily publicized deaths of children whose families belong to an Oregon City church, the Followers of Christ.

The Senate added a provision that would make House Bill 2721 take effect immediately after it is signed into law. It now returns to the House, which is expected to quickly send it on to the governor...."

more at link

UBM - so what is their definition of medical care?

 

[Missizzy]

Good question, SCM. In my experience, alternative medicine is heartily embraced in Oregon. I know many many families (including the families of a number of my grandchildren) who practice only Ayurvedic or homeopathy, home births, and no vaccinations. That's a protected right in this state. We all want options. The trouble with the FOC is that they refused to try options. They were rigid in their reliance of prayer only--with medical conditions like diabetes, sepsis and appendicitis. With the number of children who were lost, I think the State was right to step in and say "enough". I found it very interesting to read comments that many of the adult members of the group covertly access medical and dental care.

If I'm not mistaken, Ashland (where I am) has the largest number of unvaccinated children, per capita, of any town or city. The CDC comes here frequently to remind us of that fact. We have a very large number of children who are vegan, vegetarian or raw food eaters. All these "choices" are part of the norm in our large cities and many rural areas. I seriously don't think that a choice of alternative medicine is going to be a problem at all.

I have a newborn grandson (5 days old today!!) who has mild conjunctivitis in one eye. He was delivered with the assistance of a midwife and she simply suggested to squirt a little breast milk in that eye. Age old trick. If it works, great (and it almost always does). If not, almost everyone I know would not hesitate to move up the ladder to allopathic/conventional medicine. Even my very mainstream neuro has me see an herb specialist and a homeopathist for help with my seizures and other symptoms of CNS disease.

In my 17 years in Oregon, I've seen a great deal of trust put into a combination of both conventional and alternative approaches. It was interesting to share this information with the doctors at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota as I think they were a bit surprised at the amount of crossover.