OR - Michael Hays & Douglas Brown for child *advertiser censored*, Winston, 2008

[not_my_kids]

Missizzy said what I meant, she just said it much better.

Some days I should just type in "I defer to Miss".

 

[Missizzy]

not_my_kids--Those are kind words, but you made the observation first. I value your posts more than you know and send my most loving wishes for closure and healing.

In case you guys don't know, I have the "gift" of lots of time to lie hear and expound on these thoughts. I listen to what you all say and try to synopsize it. I think we should issue policy statements or possibly a book, "You Too Can Live a Crime Free Life--The WSers Way".

Kbl and I will have to start working on that.

(((hugs)))

 

[believe09]

I get COMPLETELY what you and NMK are writing and stating. I know that Oprah's position on her own sexual abuse was that it was much needed attention and it felt good.

That is not the debate, I think-this author states that the act is not traumatic. She says that feminists linked sexual abuse to rape, creating a culture of fear for survivors. (OK, note that I did the same on this thread.) Her position is that given a different response to the act of sexual abuse, it could be "nothin but a thing." That victims would all move on and that they would not need to "survive" it.

I get what she is saying, I understand her logic and research. But I do not believe it. Because I, frankly, believe that the act of sexualizing someone too early when the balance of power is so significantly skewed and particularly if the perp is a beloved/trusted adult is in and of itself imprinting damage. This is JMO from years of knowing survivors.

I will NOW stop hijacking this thread, lol....

 

[Missizzy]

Believe, you're not hijacking. I think it's an important point and I thank you for clarifying. The author has a valid stance. Like you (and without reading the book), I don't agree.

I think that what NMKs and I are saying is related, though. If we, as survivors and their loved ones, give an inch, we think we'll lose a mile. We can't concede that some people possibly hyper-focus on their abuse and get stuck. There is certainly truth to the pitfall of defining your life by the most traumatic event you've experienced. I would assume that the concentration camp survivors, POWs, war zone survivors, and others who have experienced the greatest trauma imaginable who have done the best, have addressed their trauma and moved on. They have sought help and relied on support systems but also filled their lives with vibrant actions. They've embraced life rather than staying stuck in the mire of agony. I do agree that trauma does not equal a lifetime of misery. It does call for a lifetime of fighting back the demons, though.

I get all that but I do think that childhood sexual abuse is a Pandora's Box. Once the sexual feelings and physical and emotional responses are let out of the box, there's no stuffing them back inside and locking the box. A piece of the victim has been stolen, cut off, changed. They will continue to grow and to live but will take another form than they would have had they not been abused. Therein lies the crime and the need for societal response and sanctioning.

We got started on this discussion by the misuse of a single word; "masochism". Even though survivors can move on and achieve peace and happiness, they still have to be hyper-vigilant. We are the gatekeepers. We are the canaries. We are the sentries who are entrusted with alerting the public to any seepage in the dam against evil.

 

[believe09]

I am certain that if abuse survivors were given more permission to let go unless the assault aspect was truly a violent rape, than recovery would be easier. No doubt. I think that this stand can be taken regarding any kind of criminal victimization. And I am not in any way minimizing sexual abuse by saying it. There is an inherent shame that comes from being a crime victim-we are by and large self centered creatures so we have this belief that we caused it or consented or could have made better choices. In some cases that may be true. And I do not believe in living life with a "victim's status" so to speak-BUT NMK, and your girls and so many are in a pretty big club. I suppose it is up to those who have suffered to decide what would let them drop this baggage.

the book implies that many do not remember, and when they do they feel shame for not remembering. This author is also a debunker of the concept of repressed memories. She calls it simply forgetting. Apples and oranges, or tom-ay-to tom-ah-to??

I know someone who suffered horrific childhood abuse. She had siblings who suffered as well. One of those 4 siblings does not remember his childhood at all. Nothing. He remembers High School on...that was when he could fight back.

So, is he just forgetting because it wasnt as traumatic for him?

Somehow, I think not. JMO. hugs to you all BTW.