GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[PoirotryInMotion]

Hm, this might be kinda out there but this does raise a question for me. How much hunting goes on in that area, at that time of year?

I think I remember reading recently that Larch Mt. is fairly busy with the hunting this time of year.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'm thinking the body was removed from the car, it was half-heartedly cleaned up before the trip to the gas station(s). Because with that open passenger window, it'd be visible regardless of tinted windows. Then the body was retrieved at the place it had been left (and where car had been cleaned), and it was taken up the mountain.

Boodles, did you see the Shell station video? (Is that public, or just surveillance?) I was hoping to find out if the right passenger window was blown out in the video--because it should be missing if the car is gassed (9:14am)up AFTER the "time of the crime" (8:40am).

 

[Boodles]

PIM, no the video isn't public.

But Detective Seymour viewed it and "noted the passenger side front window of the Ford Explorer appeared to be open, the headlights were on, and the front license plate was attached."

It was Shell's video from their security cams.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

PIM, no the video isn't public.

But Detective Seymour viewed it and "noted the passenger side front window of the Ford Explorer appeared to be open, the headlights were on, and the front license plate was attached."

Then I really do think she was killed before 9:14am, the body was taken out somewhere not too far away, the car cleaned up a bit (enough to pass inspection from the briefest glance of an attendant), filled with some gas quickly at a couple stations, then the car returned to pick up her body and take it up the mountain.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

"9:07 am – 3 texts pinged to her phone from location of Mt. Hood Community College. (pdf. P.27)"

The Starbucks wasn't in the area of Mt. Hood. Who would be texting her phone 3x from that Mt. Hood area, I wonder? That Community College area is the same area as the Shell station. Were friends out looking for her in the vicinity of the Shell station that early? Clint hadn't yet called 911...

 

[Glow]

I think the killer did clean up at an undisclosed location after the killing and before the trip up the mountain.

Question--and I haven't seen this addressed yet...

In the video of the van at the Shell gas station (9:14AM), was the front right passenger window blown out, or was it still intact?

It was stated that the window appeared "open".

 

[newsjunkie]

"9:07 am – 3 texts pinged to her phone from location of Mt. Hood Community College. (pdf. P.27)"

The Starbucks wasn't in the area of Mt. Hood. Who would be texting her phone 3x from that Mt. Hood area, I wonder? That Community College area is the same area as the Shell station. Were friends out looking for her in the vicinity of the Shell station that early? Clint hadn't yet called 911...

I thought the location was for her phone, not who was texting her. I think Clint stated that he called and texted her repeatedly.

 

[Desdemona]

I thought that also, until I read that the license plate was visible on the car in the video taken at 9:14am at the Shell station. And since the license plate was found at Larch Mountain, he had to have been at Shell before that.

But I still find it hard to believe that he had her body in the car at a gas station (2 of them, apparently), when Oregon gas stations are attended and not self serve. What a huge risk, never mind it was 9am-ish when there is lots of traffic on a weekday. And I know there were tinted windows, but, really? That's seriously BOLD!

I also think it's possible that she may not have been killed at the spot on Thomas Road near Roslyn Lake as Holt told police.

I don't know what happened that morning, but all these circumstances taken together, including the miraculous search effort and Holt hiding the guns in plain sight of LE, are too strange for me to accept at face value...at least at this moment with the info that's been released so far.

Remember the early reports that Whitney (or a female) was seen in the front passenger seat at the gas station?

Well, in the affidavits it is stated that when LE viewed the video from the Shell station, it appeared that the front passenger window was open (or already busted out?). The officer viewing the video noted that he could not see the driver. But it does not mention whether a passenger could be seen inside, only that the window on that side appeared open.

And yes, the officer also noted that the headlights were on and that the front license plate was still attached at that time, 9:13am.

This was six minutes after the last activity on Whitney's phone at 9:07am, which pinged to a cell tower in the vicinity. This Shell station is a little over a mile south from where the children found Whitney's phone two days later.

Two hours after the Explorer pulled into the Shell station (9:13am), it was captured on the Wal-Mart parking lot surveillance video (11:17am) and then was abandoned there (11:39am) with the front license plate missing.

And if I'm reading the docs right, the Judds picked him up around 6:50 that evening, walking south, just past that same Shell station.

(BTW, 257th, Kane and Orient are all the same road.)

 

[Desdemona]

I thought the location was for her phone, not who was texting her. I think Clint stated that he called and texted her repeatedly.

You are correct.

The documents:
http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holt1.pdf

 

[Desdemona]

Then I really do think she was killed before 9:14am, the body was taken out somewhere not too far away, the car cleaned up a bit (enough to pass inspection from the briefest glance of an attendant), filled with some gas quickly at a couple stations, then the car returned to pick up her body and take it up the mountain.

Are you suggesting he killed her in the vehicle, removed her body from the vehicle, hid her body somewhere while he cleaned the car and gassed it up... then returned to her body where he'd previously hidden her, loaded her body back into the car he'd just cleaned, and went to go dispose of her on Larch Mountain? IOW, that he had to move her body out of the car and clean the car just for appearances so he could get gas, in order to put her body back into the cleaned car to drive to a distant place to dump her?

Having a hard time imagining that. Even thinking like a criminal...

---
ETA: Although not much of what we are learning about his movements and actions is making much sense to me, either. So who knows?

 

[Desdemona]

Re-read the Affidavit for Search Warrant. On p. 23 it states there were bone fragments found underneath the floor mat in the front passenger seat. Odd. And that there was indeed an apparent clean-up attempted inside the vehicle.

Four spent shells were found inside the vehicle, which would seem to indicate that all the shots which reportedly hit Whitney were fired inside the vehicle.

Holt admitted to LE he has owned several guns, including at least 3 Smith/Wesson 9mm's and a Keltec. He told them he "buys all his guns" at the NW Armory. However, LE found that he had purchased one S/W 9mm at a different local gun store in June 2012, and it was the only gun he'd ever purchased there.

If I'm reading it right, LE did recover two guns Holt ditched or hid after the murder, located via surveillance of him prior to his arrest; one at the police station and one at (I believe) his place of work.

 

[Indy Anna]

Remember the early reports that Whitney (or a female) was seen in the front passenger seat at the gas station?

Well, in the affidavits it is stated that when LE viewed the video from the Shell station, it appeared that the front passenger window was open (or already busted out?). The officer viewing the video noted that he could not see the driver. But it does not mention whether a passenger could be seen inside, only that the window on that side appeared open.

And yes, the officer also noted that the headlights were on and that the front license plate was still attached at that time, 9:13am.

This was six minutes after the last activity on Whitney's phone at 9:07am, which pinged to a cell tower in the vicinity. This Shell station is a little over a mile south from where the children found Whitney's phone two days later.

Two hours after the Explorer pulled into the Shell station (9:13am), it was captured on the Wal-Mart parking lot surveillance video (11:17am) and then was abandoned there (11:39am) with the front license plate missing.

And if I'm reading the docs right, the Judds picked him up around 6:50 that evening, walking south, just past that same Shell station.

(BTW, 257th, Kane and Orient are all the same road.)

:waitasec: We really can't know the actual sequence of events until we know whether Whitney was visible in the car at the Shell station. What I'm finding so confusing is that JH would've had to return to Stark St. from Dodge Park to get to Larch Mt. The trip to from the Shell station to Dodge Park, to Larch Mt. and, finally, to the Wood Village Wal-mart takes about 2 hours 20 minutes. JH would've had to fly along those roads to arrive at Wal-mart by 11:17 -- approximately 2 hours after fueling up the car. And that doesn't take into consideration additional time for all that happened at Dodge Park and Larch Mt. And, I doubt that someone who had just committed a horrendous crime would risk getting pulled over by LE for speeding.

Why does LE seem so certain that WH was killed at Dodge Park? Is it because that's where her bloody apron and sweater were found? I wonder if there was also blood on the ground or spent casings at Dodge Park.
I'm thinking that, if Whitney was already deceased when her SUV was seen at the Shell station, maybe she was killed and left on Larch Mt. and JH then drove to Dodge Park after putting more fuel in the vehicle to toss out some of the evidence. Maybe he was in such a hurry that he forgot to toss all of the evidence and so strewed the remainder on his way to Wal-mart.

If Whitney was killed in Dodge Park before the SUV was fueled up at Shell, I find it hard to believe that JH would've propped her body in the passenger seat where she could be easily seen through the broken window on the passenger side and through the open window on the driver's side (when JH communicated with the station attendant). She would've had some very noticeable wounds. Her body would also get jostled around a lot, especially if JH was speeding en route. If WH was deceased at that point, wouldn't JH attempt to conceal her body in the back? Or, even more likely, wouldn't he have left her body at Dodge Park? I'm inclined to think WH was already deceased by 9:00 a.m. and wasn't in the vehicle at Shell.

I hope I'm clear enough. I'm extremely tired. Here is the map showing the route from Shell to Dodge Park to Larch Mt. to Wal-mart:

http://goo.gl/maps/T24Rp

ETA: After re-reading your post, Desdemona, I realized that JH couldn't have gone to Larch Mt. prior to making a fuel stop because the license plate was found on Larch Mt., and it was on the vehicle at the Shell station. Nothing seems to add up if JH did this alone. Or, he made a second trip to Larch Mt. after the fuel stop maybe?

 

[Xavier]

Re-read the Affidavit for Search Warrant. On p. 23 it states there were bone fragments found underneath the floor mat in the front passenger seat. Odd. And that there was indeed an apparent clean-up attempted inside the vehicle.

Four spent shells were found inside the vehicle, which would seem to indicate that all the shots which reportedly hit Whitney were fired inside the vehicle.

Holt admitted to LE he has owned several guns, including at least 3 Smith/Wesson 9mm's and a Keltec. He told them he "buys all his guns" at the NW Armory. However, LE found that he had purchased one S/W 9mm at a different local gun store in June 2012, and it was the only gun he'd ever purchased there.

If I'm reading it right, LE did recover two guns Holt ditched or hid after the murder, located via surveillance of him prior to his arrest; one at the police station and one at (I believe) his place of work.

I "read" somewhere Holt sold or gave a gun to his dad...if this was true, maybe he was telling roundabout stories so not to get his dad unessarily involved in the crime...Holt sounds really scatterbrained, so who knows about the truth of some of these details...

 

[Xavier]

:waitasec: We really can't know the actual sequence of events until we know whether Whitney was visible in the car at the Shell station. What I'm finding so confusing is that JH would've had to return to Stark St. from Dodge Park to get to Larch Mt. The trip to from the Shell station to Dodge Park, to Larch Mt. and, finally, to the Wood Village Wal-mart takes about 2 hours 20 minutes. JH would've had to fly along those roads to arrive at Wal-mart by 11:17 -- approximately 2 hours after fueling up the car. And that doesn't take into consideration additional time for all that happened at Dodge Park and Larch Mt. And, I doubt that someone who had just committed a horrendous crime would risk getting pulled over by LE for speeding.

Why does LE seem so certain that WH was killed at Dodge Park? Is it because that's where her bloody apron and sweater were found? I wonder if there was also blood on the ground or spent casings at Dodge Park.
I'm thinking that, if Whitney was already deceased when her SUV was seen at the Shell station, maybe she was killed and left on Larch Mt. and JH then drove to Dodge Park after putting more fuel in the vehicle to toss out some of the evidence. Maybe he was in such a hurry that he forgot to toss all of the evidence and so strewed the remainder on his way to Wal-mart.

If Whitney was killed in Dodge Park before the SUV was fueled up at Shell, I find it hard to believe that JH would've propped her body in the passenger seat where she could be easily seen through the broken window on the passenger side and through the open window on the driver's side (when JH communicated with the station attendant). She would've had some very noticeable wounds. Her body would also get jostled around a lot, especially if JH was speeding en route. If WH was deceased at that point, wouldn't JH attempt to conceal her body in the back? Or, even more likely, wouldn't he have left her body at Dodge Park? I'm inclined to think WH was already deceased by 9:00 a.m. and wasn't in the vehicle at Shell.

I hope I'm clear enough. I'm extremely tired. Here is the map showing the route from Shell to Dodge Park to Larch Mt. to Wal-mart:

http://goo.gl/maps/T24Rp

ETA: After re-reading your post, Desdemona, I realized that JH couldn't have gone to Larch Mt. prior to making a fuel stop because the license plate was found on Larch Mt., and it was on the vehicle at the Shell station. Nothing seems to add up if JH did this alone. Or, he made a second trip to Larch Mt. after the fuel stop maybe?

I seriously doubt Holt would've been THAT stupid to drive around with WH in the front seat bleeding from the head, blood on the windshield and a shot out window, then pull into a Shell station like this....IMO I think the store clerk probably was asked by LE if a woman was in the car, with tinted windows, hard to tell, but under possible duress, the clerk might've said "yes" to the LE questions because it might've looked like a passneger was in the SUV...and the clerk was trying to be helpful..but was'nt certain...happens all the time when we try to recall things quickly and on the spot when asked something important..

 

[Indy Anna]

I seriously doubt Holt would've been THAT stupid to drive around with WH in the front seat bleeding from the head, blood on the windshield and a shot out window, then pull into a Shell station like this....IMO I think the store clerk probably was asked by LE if a woman was in the car, with tinted windows, hard to tell, but under possible duress, the clerk might've said "yes" to the LE questions because it might've looked like a passenger was in the SUV...and the clerk was trying to be helpful..but wasn't certain...happens all the time when we try to recall things quickly and on the spot when asked something important..

A body in the front seat would've been impossible to conceal. I'm thinking the clerk remembered glimpsing a passenger in another car. With so many customers in a day, I'm sure it wouldn't be easy to recall who was in which vehicle. I wouldn't doubt that wanting to be helpful, as you said, would be a factor in eliciting a false memory too.

There are more than two hours unaccounted for prior to 9:13 that morning. I just think the assault happened before that time, and that it happened on Larch Mt. Why would JH return to town with a body in his car, though? I think he left the body on Larch Mt. before returning to town. Either he left something incriminating at the scene of the crime and went back to retrieve it, or he wanted to do a better job of concealing the body but needed the tool(s) to do it. I wonder if LE looked at Wal-Mart footage between 9:15 and 9:45. Wasn't JH's other stop at an ATM or has that not been verified? Could he have withdrawn some money to purchase something that he then took to Larch Mt.? I can't find the article that tells about the woman seeing a girl curled up in a tree on Larch Mt. Does anyone remember during what time frame that sighting occurred? IIRC, when searchers went there later, WH wasn't to be found in that spot. So, it's very possible JH did return to do move her body. It would've been at that time the license plate came off, either intentionally or unintentionally. I'm curious as to what condition it was in when found.

Still, there had to be time for JH to go to Dodge Park to dispose of some evidence. IMO, that occurred before the fuel stop. I think JH kept forgetting things he needed to get rid of because WH's phone kept receiving texts and calls. He knew he had to get rid of evidence quickly.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Remember the early reports that Whitney (or a female) was seen in the front passenger seat at the gas station?

Well, in the affidavits it is stated that when LE viewed the video from the Shell station, it appeared that the front passenger window was open (or already busted out?). The officer viewing the video noted that he could not see the driver. But it does not mention whether a passenger could be seen inside, only that the window on that side appeared open.

And yes, the officer also noted that the headlights were on and that the front license plate was still attached at that time, 9:13am.

This was six minutes after the last activity on Whitney's phone at 9:07am, which pinged to a cell tower in the vicinity. This Shell station is a little over a mile south from where the children found Whitney's phone two days later.

Two hours after the Explorer pulled into the Shell station (9:13am), it was captured on the Wal-Mart parking lot surveillance video (11:17am) and then was abandoned there (11:39am) with the front license plate missing.

And if I'm reading the docs right, the Judds picked him up around 6:50 that evening, walking south, just past that same Shell station.

(BTW, 257th, Kane and Orient are all the same road.)

I think it's rather an unusual coincidence that the Judds:

found/reported the van,
picked him up near that Shell station
also live in Troutdale

They live (on 10th at Beaverdale) in close proximity to where the cell phone was dropped at the Troutdale apts; also near the Walmart and the gas station.

 

[Joe Friday]

"9:07 am – 3 texts pinged to her phone from location of Mt. Hood Community College. (pdf. P.27)"

The Starbucks wasn't in the area of Mt. Hood. Who would be texting her phone 3x from that Mt. Hood area, I wonder? That Community College area is the same area as the Shell station. Were friends out looking for her in the vicinity of the Shell station that early? Clint hadn't yet called 911...

JH could have had her phone turned off or the phone was out of range of a tower and when the phone was turned on or the phone started receiving service from the tower located near the college the three text messages hit the phone all at the same time. There are many towers in that area so I don't think service would have been an issue.

I don't think we know exactly when the phone was shut off, just that the messages received at 9:07 were the last communications with the phone.

JMO

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

A body in the front seat would've been impossible to conceal. I'm thinking the clerk remembered glimpsing a passenger in another car. With so many customers in a day, I'm sure it wouldn't be easy to recall who was in which vehicle. I wouldn't doubt that wanting to be helpful, as you said, would be a factor in eliciting a false memory too.

I agree. If the assault had all ready happened (which acc. to police and the missing window, it had), it would've been brazen to drive to more than one gas station with it in the car with an open window (front OR back seat).

It would've been at that time the license plate came off, either intentionally or unintentionally. I'm curious as to what condition it was in when found.

I would guess, as it's the front plate that came off, that it was taken off intentionally--for two reasons. The front end of her car was clean--it hadn't been in the brush. Also, the video surveillance makes no mention of it dangling or loose, so that it might have accounted for it simply falling off. I suspect that the killer actually parked her body temporarily at a place where he could clean up at least slightly (prior to taking the car to several gas stations) as well as get a screwdriver for the license plate removal. At this point, the killer was thinking about the trip UP the mountain, preparing for that.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I seriously doubt Holt would've been THAT stupid to drive around with WH in the front seat bleeding from the head, blood on the windshield and a shot out window, then pull into a Shell station like this....IMO I think the store clerk probably was asked by LE if a woman was in the car, with tinted windows, hard to tell, but under possible duress, the clerk might've said "yes" to the LE questions because it might've looked like a passneger was in the SUV...and the clerk was trying to be helpful..but was'nt certain...happens all the time when we try to recall things quickly and on the spot when asked something important..

IF he saw a passenger in that front seat, it was not through a tinted window. Video says the window was 'down.' (Or missing.)

Clear view of a murdered person shot twice in the head. Not at ALL what the killer would allow, let alone what a witness would report if it had been her. Beyond brazen and into the realm of not possible, in my opinion.

 

[Joe Friday]

Then I really do think she was killed before 9:14am, the body was taken out somewhere not too far away, the car cleaned up a bit (enough to pass inspection from the briefest glance of an attendant), filled with some gas quickly at a couple stations, then the car returned to pick up her body and take it up the mountain.

My opinion is that Whitney was shot and killed at the location where JH said he shot her, he then drove with Whitney's body in the rear seat area of the car to the gas station to get enough gas to drive to Larch Mountain where he disposed of her body, then drove to Walmart where he disposed of the items in the dumpster and parked the car.

I can't decide if she was in the front passenger seat when shot and then placed in the rear seat area afterwards where the majority of the blood was found. Or if he forced her into the rear seats where there would have been more room if he was planning on sexually assaulting her. The broken door glass and organic matter on the windshield suggest she was in the front passenger seat when shot. The other option would have been he folded down the seats making somewhat of a bed and then shot her there. I think he might of covered her body with the carpet and rubber mat from the rear part of the vehicle that was found on top of the lowered (folded down) rear seats when the vehicle was found at Walmart. Covering her with the mats combined with the tinted window is perhaps why she might not have been seen if her body was in the rear of the vehicle while at the gas station.

JH could have lowered the seats and placed the mats where they were found as a way to hide the blood on the rear seats also after Whitney was removed from the vehicle.

You can find reference to the rear carpet and rubber mat being found on top the "lowered" rear seats on page 23 of the affidavit pdf. http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holt1.pdf


I took some pictures of the rear seat area of a similar 98 or 99 Ford Explorer at a local junk yard with the seat up and down for everyone to look at. (Sorry if I blew the margins)

A few things to note:

There is not enough room IMO to place a body on the floor in the rear seat area behind the front seats with the seats lowered or folded down. The rear seats hinge forward when folding them down almost up to the front seats. (you can see that in the last picture)

Another thing to note is that the levers to release the locks to lower the seats are on the sides of each seat and you almost have to open each rear door to access them. I was able to crawl across the seat to reach the lever on the opposite side, but if the seat was soaked in blood I might of gotten some on my pants in the knee area. Also if he was holding Whitney at gun point I doubt he could have folded down the seats by himself. She would have been able to make a break for it then. I guess it is possible he forced her to lower the seats while holding a gun on her.