Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

[soozieqtips]

Have not read any posts or seen news as have just got home from work, made tea and started watching Sky News (recorded from this morning.) Hope it will be the full hearing, otherwise will go to links kindly provided by cotton and others.

At this point I know nothing. See you later.

 

[Cherwell]

A despicable excuse for a judge sucking up to a despicable excuse for a man. That is all I have to say.

 

[cottonweaver]

Original post: The most basic truth here is no different than in any other case in which an innocent is dead and a family grieves: there isn't any justice available that can fix or change what matters most.

RSBM

At a tangent to your intention above, but can I just say, re BIB in general, it startled me to hear Masipa trott out the "I can't bring Reeva back" line again today. wtte


A judge of more experience would surely say that to state this ( "Whatever I do, I can't bring Reeva back" ) as mitigation is probably, in judgerly lingo, deemed "trite".
Yet Masipa said it.
That was the limit of her grasp of restorative justice.

:thud:

 

[Marfa Lights]

What , like OJ was a pariah for only 10 years? I think we're talking generations.

I can't see it Madeleine, it'll last longer than that. I only just finished the OJ series and there's another one on air now that I haven't seen.

Sure he will still have some cronies to party with, get married , have kids etc.

But definitely I agree, he'll be on TV again soon, people will watch just like they're often drawn to the "aftermath" of a multiple pile-up on the motorway. He can be the auteur of different kind of freak show if he chooses.

I think ten years from now his life may be tinged with regret and colored with no small amount of bitterness, but he will once again be able to have a blonde by his side along with the wealth and support of his family to ease his way back into a fairly normal lifestyle. Beer and braais with a small group of buddies, any number of the uncle's vacation properties to inhabit, Divaris will probably loan him a fast car now and then-- it will be like that brief period of time that OJ was out on the golf course looking for Nicole and Ron's killer. I wonder how long Oscar can keep his cool and stay out of trouble.

 

[Madeleine74]

What , like OJ was a pariah for only 10 years? I think we're talking generations.

I can't see it Madeleine, it'll last longer than that. I only just finished the OJ series and there's another one on air now that I haven't seen.

Sure he will still have some cronies to party with, get married , have kids etc.

But definitely I agree, he'll be on TV again soon, people will watch just like they're often drawn to the "aftermath" of a multiple pile-up on the motorway. He can be the auteur of different kind of freak show if he chooses.

OJ was a pariah in certain areas and not a pariah in other areas. His real comeuppance came when he landed in Nevada state prison exactly 13 years to the day he was acquitted in the murder trial where he butchered 2 people. Of course there are still people who think he's innocent of that crime and that it was never proved he murdered anyone. He continued to seek out notoriety after he was acquitted and that kept him in the spotlight, as did his victim's family who legally pursued him relentlessly to try to keep him from profiting (yeah Goldman Family!).

Anyway, yes, after a generation goes by OP will start to fade from public consciousness. Not that his crime will ever be forgotten, but other issues and other crimes will emerge to be foremost in many people's minds. A generation is often equal to 10 years, maybe 15 if you want to stretch it.

 

[katydid23]

Soft spot? Or maybe she sees the matter more holistically than most. OP has in fact lost everything that was important to him, just as she said, and has no chance of ever regaining his reputation or a livelihood based on what he once was.

The State overreached in accusing him of premeditated murder, and there was zero evidence of DV. OP shot recklessly at what he thought was an intruder. He deserves to be punished for that recklessness, and he has been, and will pay more in time behind bars.

He should be punished for 'recklessness?' What about the brutal death of Reeva? Shouldn't he be punished for that as well? Why focus on his 'recklessness' to the exclusion of the MURDER he committed?

He never even looked to see if his girlfriend was still there before he began shooting.

 

[katydid23]

Have not read any posts or seen news as have just got home from work, made tea and started watching Sky News (recorded from this morning.) Hope it will be the full hearing, otherwise will go to links kindly provided by cotton and others.

At this point I know nothing. See you later.

Brace yourself....

 

[lithgow1]

RSBM

At a tangent to your intention above, but can I just say, re BIB in general, it startled me to hear Masipa trott out the "I can't bring Reeva back" line again today. wtte


A judge of more experience would surely say that to state this ( "Whatever I do, I can't bring Reeva back" ) as mitigation is probably, in judgerly lingo, deemed "trite".
Yet Masipa said it.
That was the limit of her grasp of restorative justice.

:thud:

I don't recall her saying that. I must have been boiling the kettle or something. As it became apparent where things were heading I started to do other things.

There are so many disturbing things about this case, and that judge, but did you see some of the other recent sentences handed down in South Africa for crimes such as theft and poaching that Viper posted? 50 years, 77 years etc. Some of them seem too harsh for sure, but when two black guys get sentenced to long prison terms for robbing some tourists and then this rich white guy gets 6 years, which will likely be one or two, for murder, then it is just not just.

 

[soozieqtips]

Not liking it so far. In mitigating factors, Masipa saying murderer 'immediately' took steps to save deceased's life and 'implored' Dr Stipp to save Reeva's life (even though murderer knew Reeva was already dead at the time.) Well, heart sinking already.

 

[Tortoise]

Not liking it so far. In mitigating factors, Masipa saying murderer 'immediately' took steps to save deceased's life and 'implored' Dr Stipp to save Reeva's life (even though murderer knew Reeva was already dead at the time.) Well, heart sinking already.

While you're there, see if you can spot any substantial and compelling circumstances. I might have missed them.

 

[Hope4More]

Original post: The most basic truth here is no different than in any other case in which an innocent is dead and a family grieves: there isn't any justice available that can fix or change what matters most.

It is not the similarity in the cases I was noting it is the difference in the attitude towards the given sentences. To say on one hand that no sentence can ever change what matters most and on the other to personally want the death penalty for Arias suggests to me that personal opinions on these two particular perpetrators are clouding any impartiality when it comes to apt sentencing. Besides which, I believe that CMOP knowingly murdered Reeva Steenkamp so should also have been facing a much harsher sentence than the paltry year or two he has received.

Not sure if you're speaking generally? Speaking only for myself, I followed both trials. I'd never heard of OP beforehand, or of Reeva, and actually, unlike in CMJA's case, never had any strong feelings about OP or the murder one way or another.

Based on the evidence (lack thereof) I've never believed they fought that night, much less that he intended to kill her. I have believed he's self absorbed, selfish, arrogant, and feels entitled, and that he should have had his guns taken away from him years before that night. Those who enabled him did him no favors whatsoever.

And...yes, after many years of trial watching, I very much believe what for me is the sad truth of that bottom line.

 

[cottonweaver]

I don't recall her saying that. I must have been boiling the kettle or something. As it became apparent where things were heading I started to do other things.

There are so many disturbing things about this case, and that judge, but did you see some of the other recent sentences handed down in South Africa for crimes such as theft and poaching that Viper posted? 50 years, 77 years etc. Some of them seem too harsh for sure, but when two black guys get sentenced to long prison terms for robbing some tourists and then this rich white guy gets 6 years, which will likely be one or two, for murder, then it is just not just.

BIB There seems to be these OTT harsh sentences and then others which are a joke. I can't claim to understand it and IDK enough about the case details to compare Viper's example. It's all mind bending. Wearying.

Sometimes, I don't think it's worth my brain energy. Hence the dumb emojis. They speak volumes.

 

[geevee]

Did she say that?

What a remarkably stupid woman. A judge who doesn't know what the word "evidence" means!

I am not a tin foil hat wearer - but I am genuinely starting to wonder whether any money has changed hands somewhere along the line. I know others have made the same point ever since the initial verdict but I've resisted it because it seems unlikely. But something stinks to high heaven about all this.

"Not a shred of evidence....." WHAAAAAAT?

I have long thought that 'the fix was in' before the trial even began but I have also thought Masipa to be craftier than many would give her credit. She gives him the verdict/sentence he and his family paid for (in some fashion) knowing it would likely be appealed and upgraded (and she approves the appeal to the SCA), she fulfilled her end of that deal.

Post appeal/resentencing she now gives him another term that the family has wanted, likely as well knowing Nel wanted at least 8 years and will appeal anything less, so she undercuts that limit with expectation that Oscar will eventually get the sentence he truly deserves (when the SCA hands it down). She gets out of it what she bargained for and OP gets what he bargained for when he trapped Reeva in that cubicle and shot the life out of her. Quid pro quo and she laughs all the way to a comfortable retirement.

It's still very disappointing that it's gone along this way and that she'll chance him serving a max of 3 or 4 years for murder, it's sets too dangerous a precedent, Nel must appeal if for no other reason that what future prosecutors will be up against should this sentence stand.

 

[Hope4More]

He should be punished for 'recklessness?' What about the brutal death of Reeva? Shouldn't he be punished for that as well? Why focus on his 'recklessness' to the exclusion of the MURDER he committed?

He never even looked to see if his girlfriend was still there before he began shooting.

The not looking was the recklessness. The recklessness has been ruled a murder. The judge sentenced him based on that verdict. It was her opinion that mitigators outweighed aggravators sufficiently to not impose a longer sentence.

 

[Lyra500]

I am too disgusted to type much.

Ridiculous reasoning with an obscene result.

 

[Madeleine74]

If you understand the laws in SA you will see that even if you believe "an intruder" has somehow entered your 2nd story house through a loo window and locked themselves into a tiny 5' area where said loo is contained and you then take a powerful gun and shoot 4 bullets through a closed door and into that loo, you

- are not actually being threatened because said "intruder" is locked behind a door. Locked away from you.
- know 4 shots from your high powered gun into that small space will likely hit the person in the space
- know any 1 of those 4 shots could be fatal and continue shooting 4 times
- knowing all that (or should know all that) you shoot anyway and (surprise) the human inside the loo is hit 3 times and killed
- were never in danger, and evidence showed that a female was heard screaming in terror from that house, in the minute before the shooting.
- could have easily left your bedroom, gotten away from this "intruder" who has locked themselves in the loo, yet you did not do that. You instead took your gun and went to the place where this "intruder" had locked themselves.

According to SA law, that is dolus eventualis, or legal intention, which is present when the perpetrator objectively foresees the possibility of his act causing death and persists regardless of the consequences. That is murder. (maybe like our 2nd degree murder in the U.S.) There is a sentencing guideline that Masipa thwarted and in order to do so she spewed a bunch of mitigators to somehow make OP more the victim than the real victim in the case. That's the long and short of it.

 

[Viper]

Can someone please tell me how to block seeing certain posts? I've been here long enought to know when I need to scroll and roll but this is getting irritating!

 

[Marfa Lights]

The not looking was the recklessness. The recklessness has been ruled a murder. The judge sentenced him based on that verdict. It was her opinion that mitigators outweighed aggravators sufficiently to not impose a longer sentence.

Please be kind enough to remind me of those mitigating factors as you heard them.

 

[Hope4More]

I think ten years from now his life may be tinged with regret and colored with no small amount of bitterness, but he will once again be able to have a blonde by his side along with the wealth and support of his family to ease his way back into a fairly normal lifestyle. Beer and braais with a small group of buddies, any number of the uncle's vacation properties to inhabit, Divaris will probably loan him a fast car now and then-- it will be like that brief period of time that OJ was out on the golf course looking for Nicole and Ron's killer. I wonder how long Oscar can keep his cool and stay out of trouble.

My guess about his staying out of trouble is-- not for very long. OJ never regained what he'd lost, and neither will OP. Like OJ before he went down, OP has always been surrounded by enablers, and will still be when he's let out, however shrunken their ranks.

Undiminished sense of entitlement plus that loss IMO most likely will result in an angry bitterness he's demonstrated little potential for acknowledging, much less controlling.

 

[Gigi-G]

Relax, that provision of the statutes is VERY rarely used and even more rarely successful. As it stands OP will sit there for the next three years at a minimum, after that who knows but parole is not just handed out freely. So now we wait for Nel and the NPA to let us know if they will fight on, I think they should.

Ahh gotchya. Thankyou Viper. Anxiously waiting now then..

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