Identified! PA - Bensalem, WhtFem 461UFPA, 20-30, pregnant, in pumphouse, Jan'88 - Lisa Todd

One thing that really struck me was the revelation that she grew up on the corner of Church St. and Frankford Ave,
RSBM

Apropos of nothing, a little OT, except an odd coincidence with a case (or cases) of long-time unidentified remains from two decades before Lisa's remains were found.

Sandy and Martha Stiver were reported missing on 8/18/1968. They had been on their way to a corner store at Frankford Ave & Kensington Ave, only a couple of blocks from Frankford Ave & Church St.

Sandy Stiver's body was found 8/22/1968, Martha's remains were found 4/18/1969. They remained unidentified until 2014. Exhumed in October 2013, announcement that they'd been ID'd via DNA in June 2014.

Identified! - PA - Berks Co., 2 WhtFems, photos in hangar, 1968-69 - Martha & Sandra Stiver

Google Maps
 
Her son didn't wish his name to be used in that article,too, which leads me in the same direction as you, I think.

Yeah I saw that as well. The detective specifically states the son is living "in a different state", which the son also did not want being made public. Not sure what to make of it. Interesting.

My first thought, honestly, is he might be estranged from the Todds. Although that's just blind speculation. For all I know they're very close.

I hope he's well, where ever he is. If I'm pissed off about what was done to his mother (and his sister), I can only imagine the reconciliations he's been forced to make throughout life. Must be hard to carry around.

I'm typing this on Christmas night. If my thoughts randomly strayed back to this case, again, today of all days, I'm sure his have as well.

At least this Christmas, we know.
 
Her son didn't wish his name to be used in that article,too, which leads me in the same direction as you, I think.

RSBM

Apropos of nothing, a little OT, except an odd coincidence with a case (or cases) of long-time unidentified remains from two decades before Lisa's remains were found.

Sandy and Martha Stiver were reported missing on 8/18/1968. They had been on their way to a corner store at Frankford Ave & Kensington Ave, only a couple of blocks from Frankford Ave & Church St.

Sandy Stiver's body was found 8/22/1968, Martha's remains were found 4/18/1969. They remained unidentified until 2014. Exhumed in October 2013, announcement that they'd been ID'd via DNA in June 2014.

Identified! - PA - Berks Co., 2 WhtFems, photos in hangar, 1968-69 - Martha & Sandra Stiver

Google Maps

This is very interesting, thank you for posting. Another Philadelphia case I had no idea about. Clearly I'm not the "expert" I once fancied myself. :)

I'll do a deep dive into that thread and see what I think. It is remarkable that they were heading to Frankford and Kensington, actually a bit less than 2 blocks away from the Todd's intersection.

I'm not from here, I'm a New England transplant, so Philly history pre-2004 isn't anything I qualify as a scholar about. But I can at least state presently that area is not...the greatest. It's just north of what is, basically, the east coast's largest open air drug market. The Kensington neighborhood (just south of the Frankford neighborhood) is, tragically, the epicenter of our city's opioid epidemic. In the summer of 2017 there were weeks where 6-8 people were dying a day.

So they're struggling up there.

I cannot attest to what it was like in '68, when these two poor girls vanished. Although I believe the region has always been decidedly working class. In no way is that equal to "high crime area", but it seems to have never been a priority when it comes to City Hall's attention. In a city this size, that means the people...tend to struggle.

Thanks again. I'll look into this case.
 
A question for anyone should they ever linger back around this thread- Lisa's younger sister, Linda, said her last memory of her is Lisa handing over her pocketbook and asking her to take it home (in my old parish we called it being "voluntold", as in "volunteering", but really "being told".)

I'm curious what anyone's thoughts are on this. Particularly any women. I am distinctly a dude and pocketbooks are thus not a part of my repertoire.

My guess is that whatever happened that October night, Lisa was either going out on a kind of date, or to hang out with friends (likely the latter more than the former), and anticipated the pocketbook would just be a nuisance. Something she didn't want to lug around.

This would mean she likely had no money on her (I've never seen anything about money being found with her body, though of course, why would it? Surely whoever has it in them to murder a pregnant 17 year old is not above stealing cash...) This leaves me thinking whoever she was going to meet that night, it was expected they were paying for whatever needed paying for. As in: "I won't need it, he insists on paying for everything anyway..."

As I've never been a 17 year old girl I have literally no idea what she would maybe be carrying around in a pocketbook, so I don't know where to begin to speculate about this particular detail.

It might be completely irrelevant. But it's interesting...
 
The photo that we have looks like a class photo, I'm guessing from a yearbook. I'm not from US, so I don't really know much about yearbooks, but don't a lot of them also have individual photos? Do some schools decide to just do whole class photos and nothing else?
I recall Evelyn Colon also has a class photo, but not an individual one. Most other photos of her burnt away in a house fire.

It is up to students' families to decide whether they want to buy the photo packages offered by the school's photographer. Many simply don't have the money, in which case the individual photos of their child would never be printed. Class photos are likely to have been purchased by at least some classmates' parents, and possibly by the school as well, in which case that group image could be the only "school photo" printed of the student in that year – aside from any proofs sent home in the ordering package. (It's been 15 years since I've had a student in the family and thus reason to buy school photos, but IIRC at the time all physical/film proofs were supposed to be returned to the photographer, whether an order was placed or not.)

There also could be decades-old negative images of Lisa deep in some photography studio's archives, but locating them, even if they've survived the intervening decades, would be a Herculean task for a trained investigator much less family members.

As for school yearbooks, they really aren't a big thing until high school in this part of the US, and often they contain formal photos only of the graduating class, and various teams and student activities groups. As fourteen-year-old Lisa was nowhere near being a graduating senior, and may or may not have participated in her school's activities, the chance of her image being located in one of the surviving (or digitized, online) yearbooks is probably not outstanding. MOO.
 
My apologies - it's been a while since I perused this case and I got some of the facts wrong in my post immediately above. As Lisa was seventeen (not fourteen as I misremembered) at the time of her disappearance she may well have been in the senior class at her high school and thus featured with other seniors in her school's yearbook. :oops:
 
My apologies - it's been a while since I perused this case and I got some of the facts wrong in my post immediately above. As Lisa was seventeen (not fourteen as I misremembered) at the time of her disappearance she may well have been in the senior class at her high school and thus featured with other seniors in her school's yearbook. :oops:
It is believed she dropped out in ninth grade.
 
She seems like she was kinda far from home. Sounds like she was a tough type girl. Many times those types don't stray too far from home and tend toward moving toward the inner city even more.
 
It is believed she dropped out in ninth grade.

Ahhh ... that's where I got the idea that Lisa was about fourteen. :(

Her young life must have been so difficult, even before the brutal fateful encounter that ended it. I hope she knew she mattered, no matter what social disapproval or limits she may have run into as an extremely young mother. Lisa Todd had ineffable value as a human being. She had a history, and a vital role still to play in the lives of one living child and one not yet born. She had family and friends and others in whose lives she made a difference, whether she knew it or not. Yet she never got the chance to grow anywhere near her potential before some soulless creature extinguished her and abandoned her in a place where they likely hoped she'd never be found. This very young girl, no matter her personality or faults, deserved so much more than having to grow up way too fast in challenging and isolating personal circumstances, followed by a final experience of such naked cruelty.

M(very sad)OO.
 
She seems like she was kinda far from home. Sounds like she was a tough type girl. Many times those types don't stray too far from home and tend toward moving toward the inner city even more.

She was only @12 miles from home, and both locations are well under a mile from entrances/exits for I-95, so it's maybe a 15 minute drive. I suspect the abandoned distillery was a location known to whoever took her there (I'm assuming she didn't get to the location on her own, as we've heard no indication that she had access to a vehicle.) And who knows in what condition she arrived. It's even plausible that her journey was made using a combination of city public transit and a regional rail line, although making those connections would have taken considerably longer than 15 minutes in a car.

As for whether Lisa was 'tough', it was a pretty tough area of the city even 35 years ago and she probably had some street smarts. But she was still a minor, and clearly she had endured some early struggles that may have left her with a sense of being mature, while still lacking an adult's understanding of risk or suspicion. I fear that she was naive and very vulnerable beneath a 'tough' facade, and that played a part in her putting her faith in the wrong person. MOO.
 
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As for whether Lisa was 'tough', it was a pretty tough area of the city even 35 years ago and she probably had some street smarts. But she was still a minor, and clearly she had endured some early struggles that may have left her with a sense of being mature, while still lacking an adult's understanding of risk or suspicion. I fear that she was naive and very vulnerable beneath a 'tough' facade, and that played a part in her putting her faith in the wrong person. MOO.

Oh yeah, totally agree. Just seems out of the way.
I also assumed she didn't drive.
Maybe she was taken there on a "date"...
 
Ahhh ... that's where I got the idea that Lisa was about fourteen. :(

Her young life must have been so difficult, even before the brutal fateful encounter that ended it. I hope she knew she mattered, no matter what social disapproval or limits she may have run into as an extremely young mother. Lisa Todd had ineffable value as a human being. She had a history, and a vital role still to play in the lives of one living child and one not yet born. She had family and friends and others in whose lives she made a difference, whether she knew it or not. Yet she never got the chance to grow anywhere near her potential before some soulless creature extinguished her and abandoned her in a place where they likely hoped she'd never be found. This very young girl, no matter her personality or faults, deserved so much more than having to grow up way too fast in challenging and isolating personal circumstances, followed by a final experience of such naked cruelty.

M(very sad)OO.
Very well said.

I haven't posted in this thread in many months, but this case always lingers. Almost every time I'm downtown and I see City Hall, I think of her (I'm in Philadelphia.) Last fall/winter, when I was reading a lot about the case, I wondered which parts of downtown were around when she was alive. City Hall, for sure. I remember waiting for a bus one morning at 13th and Market, right across from City Hall, and I looked up at it and thought, I bet she saw this exact view countless times.

City Hall's right in the heart of downtown. She couldn't have not seen it.

I've viewed a lot of images of suddenly identified John and Jane Does, I read a lot of true crime like everyone else here. I check the Unidentified wiki at least once a week and I marveled at all the new faces. It's a good feeling. But Lisa's yearbook image, that one image that's been released to the public, really struck me when it was released a year ago. Yes, I am a dude, but she reminds me of myself. I feel like I see an entire constellation of personality in her *advertiser censored*-eating grin. It makes me laugh.

Still haunts me to think the person who did it to her could have sat next to me on a trolley, or made my coffee at Dunkin Donuts- who did it to her and her unborn daughter.

When they're caught, I'll celebrate.
 
Oh yeah, totally agree. Just seems out of the way.
I also assumed she didn't drive.
Maybe she was taken there on a "date"...
Yeah that's one of the major questions- what was she doing in Bensalem?

Bensalem is in Bucks County, which is northeast of Philadelphia and known primarily for being upper middle class. So I was puzzled how this distinctly working class northeast Philly girl ended up in fancytime Bucks County. Then I looked at where the Publicker Distillery was on google maps, and it's nestled right in an isolated, southwest corner of Bucks County, far from the gated neighborhoods.

The distillery itself is actually in the middle of an industrial area. When she disappeared, the distiillery had been out of business for several years and was where kids went to party. There was criminal activity there as well. Most sources you find online will mentioned abandoned stolen cars.

It is accessible via public transit, I was surprised to see. There are Septa (Philly's transit) stops up and down State Rd, where the distillery grounds are/were. From what friends of mine who've lived here many years have told me, that route was in service in the mid-80's.

So was she driven or did she take transit? Hard to say. She was 7 months pregnant, I don't know how to factor that in either way.

It would have been easy for her to get there on her own. I know she lived at Church and Frankford, which would have put her directly beneath the elevated subway line (the el) which runs directly towards Bensalem. It was only a few stops north to Frankford Transportation Center, from where Lisa could have picked up the bus to Bensalem.

As a girl who grew up under the el, I'm guessing she would have had very good knowledge of transit and how to get virtually anywhere.

I live in West Philly now, but for a long time I lived in the northeast, just five subway stops south of the intersection she grew up. I might have posted this earlier in the thread, but I remember how that neighborhood treated their young women. It wasn't unusual at all to see very young teen girls with large bellies. I got the sense it was a culture that didn't really value their young women. It made me sad.

Five years after moving out of the northeast, I read about Lisa's identification. I know I posted this earlier: I almost have a mind to head up to Frankford and start asking questions I shouldn't be asking in certain bars I shouldn't be going to. But I don't want to get stabbed. And I don't want to compromise the case. I'll let the pros handle it. But I think about the case often enough. When I'm feeling chatty I even come to Websleuths and type interminable posts about it. :)
 
Five years after moving out of the northeast, I read about Lisa's identification. I know I posted this earlier: I almost have a mind to head up to Frankford and start asking questions I shouldn't be asking in certain bars I shouldn't be going to. But I don't want to get stabbed.
Although chances are that if the killer is still alive, by now he'd be more likely to try to hit you with his walking cane than a knife. :)
 
Although chances are that if the killer is still alive, by now he'd be more likely to try to hit you with his walking cane than a knife. :)
Lisa was 17 when she was reported missing in 1985. If her killer was the baby's father, I imagine he'd would have been close to her age. It's been 38 years. If he is still alive, imo, he's probably in his late 50s, which really isn't that old.
 
Yeah that's one of the major questions- what was she doing in Bensalem?

Bensalem is in Bucks County, which is northeast of Philadelphia and known primarily for being upper middle class. So I was puzzled how this distinctly working class northeast Philly girl ended up in fancytime Bucks County. Then I looked at where the Publicker Distillery was on google maps, and it's nestled right in an isolated, southwest corner of Bucks County, far from the gated neighborhoods.

The distillery itself is actually in the middle of an industrial area. When she disappeared, the distiillery had been out of business for several years and was where kids went to party. There was criminal activity there as well. Most sources you find online will mentioned abandoned stolen cars.

It is accessible via public transit, I was surprised to see. There are Septa (Philly's transit) stops up and down State Rd, where the distillery grounds are/were. From what friends of mine who've lived here many years have told me, that route was in service in the mid-80's.

So was she driven or did she take transit? Hard to say. She was 7 months pregnant, I don't know how to factor that in either way.

It would have been easy for her to get there on her own. I know she lived at Church and Frankford, which would have put her directly beneath the elevated subway line (the el) which runs directly towards Bensalem. It was only a few stops north to Frankford Transportation Center, from where Lisa could have picked up the bus to Bensalem.

As a girl who grew up under the el, I'm guessing she would have had very good knowledge of transit and how to get virtually anywhere.

I live in West Philly now, but for a long time I lived in the northeast, just five subway stops south of the intersection she grew up. I might have posted this earlier in the thread, but I remember how that neighborhood treated their young women. It wasn't unusual at all to see very young teen girls with large bellies. I got the sense it was a culture that didn't really value their young women. It made me sad.

Five years after moving out of the northeast, I read about Lisa's identification. I know I posted this earlier: I almost have a mind to head up to Frankford and start asking questions I shouldn't be asking in certain bars I shouldn't be going to. But I don't want to get stabbed. And I don't want to compromise the case. I'll let the pros handle it. But I think about the case often enough. When I'm feeling chatty I even come to Websleuths and type interminable posts about it. :)
I am from Bucks County (Doylestown)-did not know that Bensalem is considered upper middle class (maybe it’s because my brother lived there!)
 
If her killer was the baby's father, I imagine he'd would have been close to her age.
The majority of teen mom pregnancies are fathered by men out of their teens.
 

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