GUILTY PA - Christina Regusters for kidnap, rape of 5yo girl, Philadelphia, 14 Jan 2013 - #1

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belimom said:
The thing about the school. I work in a school with quite a bit of security. However, if a parent were to show up to take their child and the child went willingly with them, there's no reason for that teacher to think the person is not who they say they are. This child was an easier target than a child whose parent isn't normally 'covered'. The sub had no reason to think anything was up. It wasn't like someone showed up and said, "Hi, N****, I'm your new babysitter. Let's go to breakfast.", then I believe the sub may have asked more questions, etc.

School personnel did tell the perp to go to the office. They may not have that many covered Muslim women coming to get their child and may have just seen the mom dropping the daughter off - and just assumed it was her and that there was no reason to escort her to the office.

I agree that protocol should be followed. But parents are allowed in schools - to more extent in some than in others. It's not unusual to have parents bringing something, getting kids out, volunteering in the classroom, helping with a project, etc.

This case is an anomaly b/c the 'costume' worn by the perp matched the mom's clothing to a tee. There was no reason to think it wasn't her from a distance, etc. Just like the security system in Newtown -- no one would ever have guessed that the attacker was going to shoot their way in. Just as no one ever would have guessed that someone would impersonate this particular mom in order to get to that specific child, especially when the child gave no indication anything was wrong and went willingly as if everything was fine. :twocents:

I'm not defending the school - but this one is a hard call to make. The school has to be cut some slack on this one, I think.
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Muslim woman are very common in Philly.
It is part and parcel of the rules of the school that they are allowed, legally to request a woman who is covering their face to show it for identification purposes. (I heard this on the local CBS affiliate news several times).
This is not like a normal suburban or small city or town school. These teachers and admins probably have seen their kids parents once, if that, so are supposed to ID everyone, all the time.
This child, in particular, is frequently picked up by different people from her after school care. They need to be on the list, and are checked, the routine is not unfamiliar to them.

IMHO, this was either an inside the school assisted abduction, or one of the most blatant, unforgivable and monumental failures of the minimal requirements of an urban public school. Having a gunman come in and shoot a bunch if kids is excusable, and yet days were spent trying to figure out how to make schools safer. Yet here, a school cannot be bothered to use the minimal rules it has to avoid just this situation, and people are defending the school?


<modsnip>
 
IMO it takes two to tango. Both the abductor and school played a role in this sad situation.

But our focus shouldn't be on who is more at fault than the other....right now our focus should be on finding the abductors and getting them off the street!
 
At first, I thought a bit of leeway should be given because it was a substitute teacher who may not have been familiar with the policy in addition to not knowing the parents personally. The more I read, though, the less I feel that way. That woman should never have been able to even speak to the sub without having confirmed her identity and signing in at the office (which in my experiences isn't the same as signing in at the door as a visitor). Since she did make it that far, it next falls on the teacher. He obviously did know the policy since he told her what it was, so that's no longer an excuse. I think they really need to train teachers (permanent or substitute) and other staff exactly what to do if a "visitor" refuses to follow procedure - and NR definitely shouldn't have been allowed to leave until it was checked out. MOO
 
respectfully snipped from elmomom's post above, my input is in blue

This has nothing and everything to do with socioeconomic circumstances. This would never happen in my school district, you bet your bottom. Here, the school would be sued so fast your head would spin. And that knowledge keeps them a lot more on their toes than it does in a big urban public school district where it is very much removed from the taxpayers. I am so, so glad that this inner city Mom is acting just like every spoiled Mom out here in the burbs would do. Because her child is every bit as valuable to our society as all the rich kids around here.

excellent. I agree one hundred percent, no parent of means would NOT sue in this circumstance, and N is just as precious and valuable as anyone from more means.

I also want to point out that most civil suit lawyers find a "way" to encourage the victims to call them, and will almost never (if ever) say that they contacted the victim with an offer of assistance. To do this would invite criticism as an "ambulance chaser". But I have absolutely no doubt, knowing this attorney, and knowing what is possible here, that he was extremely eager to get this client. And most likely found a way to have the Mom "request his services". This is an easy easy civil case to win, and a very big public big win with all the media attention that comes with. A civil attorney's dream.

I disagree that this lawyer may have had to find a way to solicit this client. He has won large awards and a simple google search could have informed mom of this.

My firm does not advertise in any way that we handle PI or WC cases. Too conservative, advertising alone is considered to be ambulance chasing by some folks of a more conservative viewpoint, so we don't do it. Our clientele in these areas of practice find us through word of mouth alone, from previous clients.

I agree, this case is an attorney's dream and a big coup for Mr. Kline if a lawsuit comes from this case.
 
amberdawn723 said:
IMO it takes two to tango. Both the abductor and school played a role in this sad situation.

But our focus shouldn't be on who is more at fault than the other....right now our focus should be on finding the abductors and getting them off the street!
Click to expand...

good point amberdawn, a point I an taking to heart.
 
elmomom said:
Muslim woman are very common in Philly.
It is part and parcel of the rules of the school that they are allowed, legally to request a woman who is covering their face to show it for identification purposes. (I heard this on the local CBS affiliate news several times).

<modsnip>
Click to expand...

You may have heard that on the news, but you believe it? I have friends with kids and grandkids in the public school system here as well as neighbors. Trust me that every Muslim woman picking up a child isn't showing her face. I'll take it as a fact from my friend of over 40 years.

Also it's not true these teachers have only seen these kids teachers only once. Granted some parents don't even walk their kids a block to school or even get up out of bed for that matter to help them prepare. Then you have plenty of parents or caregivers who show up for everything and anything they can regarding their children's education.

We should just take a look at the recent meetings regarding school closings.

Who should be ashamed? The kidnappers or the school or us? I'd say the perps and whoever's job it was to not allow that poor baby to walk out that door with a stranger.
 
I know that no one on these threads would assume that one child is more important than another... we would not be on these threads if we did not feel every person is valued equally...

Therefore... It would be interesting if we had a personal story behind the substitute that has been stated as being so negligent ...

I wonder if he had been nephew, son-in-law, husband of one of us WSers...

It is human nature to be able to attack (verbally) nameless...faceless... "Titles"..such as a "sub".... While placing blame on the unknown "other"...

If we found this sub to be a young man, with a young wife, who worked his way through college tutoring.. And would bring an extra lunch to school for those students who could not afford a lunch... Who worked after school with students who needed extra guidance, etc, ...

And if this sub was a son, son-in-law, nephew, etc... Of a fellow WSer.... Then I imagine that the response would be incredibly different..

In fact...,I imagine that we would be looking at the young man with sympathy... Thinking he was black-balled by the district... And in effect.. Became unemployable... All because he was duped by a cunning, criminal mind such as the abductors'...

Ideas to think about...
 
I respect that you are sensitive to this substitute teacher and his feelings. I am sure this man feels horrible about what happened. But I have seen no one attack him personally. Yes, they take exception and criticism his actions. But I haven't seen anything I would consider to be an attack on him. Criticism and attack are not the same in my mind. Criticism is necessary when change needs to happen. without criticizing what went wrong, how do we help protect a future child from this same series of mistakes by school and sub?
 
O/T, but wanted to share how a friend and I were chatting and little N's <modsnip> kidnapping came up. Her grandson is in kindergarten. Her kids went to the same school and it was a tad "rough" back then even. However, there's many wonderful parents, caregivers and neighbors who live in close proximity to the school.

She tells me how the other day the kindergartners went to another room for art or something. They come back and the day continues. It's time to go home and four kids are minus coats. Stolen. Older kids came in and handpicked coats to steal.

These are kids.
 
tlcya said:
I respect that you are sensitive to this substitute teacher and his feelings. I am sure this man feels horrible about what happened. But I have seen no one attack him personally. Yes, they take exception and criticism his actions. But I haven't seen anything I would consider to be an attack on him. Criticism and attack are not the same in my mind. Criticism is necessary when change needs to happen. without criticizing what went wrong, how do we help protect a future child from this same series of mistakes by school and sub?
Click to expand...

The underlying mission of posters on WS is to help people who are in need...(I.e. family of missing, missing, family of murdered, etc.)...

And our intent is to make this world a better place...

therefore... Learning from lessons is a valuable way to work towards our goals...

I learned on a political thread that emotions got so hot by posters who generally may find much in common when working to find a missing person...

In other words.. We will have to agree to disagree on some of the issues raised in this thread... But the most important thing is to work towards finding the perps involved in NJ's abduction...

JMO
 
Gracelin said:
Just able to get in here after a very long day..grandson and hubby to VA docs.

It is about time! Someone should be outraged!! I expected the community to protest! I don't care if they are Muslim, Chinese, or white! They did a good thing today!
Click to expand...

I hope your hubby and grandson are okay...:please:

and I agree with this sentiment! :great:
 
Yup! babysitting GS & hubby is hanging in!

I am shocked at the comments that the Philly people made in the link MATOU gave us..

I just hope they were able to reach someone who may have been afraid..
 
I'm working on a new thread and will be back in a few minutes with the link.
 
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