PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

Do you have a link to Judy Smith's prior connection to the area?
Just heard that she had accompanied him to a weight loss clinic.. I don't know if jeffreJ had always been so overweight, but it could have been a very strenuous time in their relationship. Maybe Judy in a moment of weakness found a shoulder to cry on, one thing led to another.. it happens! It could have been a nurse that she keeps in touch with.. something happened in the hotel room that night. Had to have! She left all her clothes behind and she left! I keep wondering how pissed I would have to be to do that.. I think a lot of factors play into this..
 
Just heard that she had accompanied him to a weight loss clinic.. I don't know if jeffreJ had always been so overweight, but it could have been a very strenuous time in their relationship. Maybe Judy in a moment of weakness found a shoulder to cry on, one thing led to another.. it happens! It could have been a nurse that she keeps in touch with.. something happened in the hotel room that night. Had to have! She left all her clothes behind and she left! I keep wondering how pissed I would have to be to do that.. I think a lot of factors play into this..

If this was the case, it would have been planned.
 
Hi Debbie - regarding the body being a year or two old - the first couple times I read it I thought they were referring to the other body found in the area because it did not make sense to me that they thought the body had been there longer than Judy had been missing. Your comment motivated me to go back and re-read and indeed they were talking about Judy......I wish we could get clarification on that. The fact that they had been exposed to the elements for months could be why they looked older than they did. They were probably basing their conclusions on the decomposition of the body and the weathering of the bones. I think if Judy had been missing for a year or so before the trip her children would have said something. From interviews I saw with them it seems they are confirming that Judy was very much alive and home up until they left for Philly. She was a nurse too so I am sure it would be easy to figure out if she was alive during that time.


I thought of Hilton too. Still the mystery remains - why was she in NC???

LE has a blue backpack which was buried with the remains that they believe is the killers.
In the dark it would be hard to tell red from blue. Assuming this happened at night, killer buries wrong backpack..
 
Just curious...I know they stated the remains had extensive dental and she apparently indeed had lots of dental work, which led to the belief that it is likely her. But they found a wedding ring with the remains. IMO I would imagine that would be somewhat more confirmation of this being her. I mean, Jeffrey and her children would certainly be able to confirm her wedding ring. What are the chances this person had the same design. It just seems like 'oh...yeah and there was a wedding ring with her as well'. MOO that ring would be the ultimate element in knowing if that was Judy.
 
Just curious...I know they stated the remains had extensive dental and she apparently indeed had lots of dental work, which led to the belief that it is likely her. But they found a wedding ring with the remains. IMO I would imagine that would be somewhat more confirmation of this being her. I mean, Jeffrey and her children would certainly be able to confirm her wedding ring. What are the chances this person had the same design. It just seems like 'oh...yeah and there was a wedding ring with her as well'. MOO that ring would be the ultimate element in knowing if that was Judy.
What's always bothered me is the ME first stated that the remains had been there as long as two years. TWO YEARS!! How did the body skeletonize that fast if she'd been missing only 5 months?? I realize scavengers picked at what was above the ground, but even what was buried was pretty much bones.. I NC is humid, I used to live in FLA and it is humid as Holy hell there, but not as landlocked as western North Carolina.. but the combination of wedding ring, dental records and her arthritic knee, pretty much beyond a doubt a positive ID. And on the subject of the bad knee.. how could someone with bad arthritis in her knee hike up a mountain?! That would've been pure agony.. I am actually heading down to visit the site here in the next month or so and I'm not even sure I can make that ascent up the steep incline and I'm 40 and don't have arthritis!! Very puzzling indeed..
 
The whole thing with body being there for two years (presumably) is definitely bothersome. As well as the arthritic knee. IF she went by herself, arthritic knee and all, she's got some real cojones! As a woman, I have no issue going to local trails by myself for walking or kayaking. I'd be hard pressed though to go to that area alone to go hiking. She either had to have gone with someone or was maybe in a mindframe of 'hey, im not letting this old hold me back' or maybe she hadn't had a flare up lately and felt pretty good about hitting the mountain. Maybe her knee wiped out on her to the point she couldn't barely move and had just enough in her to dig out a hole to lay in. Either way, i'm having problems which each scenario I imagine with this whole case.
 
The whole thing with body being there for two years (presumably) is definitely bothersome. As well as the arthritic knee. IF she went by herself, arthritic knee and all, she's got some real cojones! As a woman, I have no issue going to local trails by myself for walking or kayaking. I'd be hard pressed though to go to that area alone to go hiking. She either had to have gone with someone or was maybe in a mindframe of 'hey, im not letting this old hold me back' or maybe she hadn't had a flare up lately and felt pretty good about hitting the mountain. Maybe her knee wiped out on her to the point she couldn't barely move and had just enough in her to dig out a hole to lay in. Either way, i'm having problems which each scenario I imagine with this whole case.
Another thought I had, and it's a chilling one. Having a knife held to your back is motivation enough to move!
 
Someone leaving the area around the time Smith died would be interesting. The blanket could have been used to carry the body, or even to disguise it.

Does anyone know if the blanket, or the blue backpack, was tested for DNA? Clearly they did not belong to her, and if she was wrapped in the blanket, the killer would have wrapped her in it, and maybe left DNA
 
I've read up to here on this case and wow is this just so bizarre. Sounds silly but of all aspects of this case, her bringing him flowers struck me as odd (as others mentioned). Sure...no reason it wouldn't be socially acceptable. I've personally just never seen that before. I'm also curious as to what kind of toy truck she (supposedly) bought at that deli. That was a small, yet peculiar detail as well. I really have nothing of real substance to add but you all have such interesting thoughts on this case!

I also find the flowers somewhat strange, especially when you consider she was coming from the airport and all. Did he get the flowers at the airport somewhere? It just seems like an odd thing to worry about? As for the toy truck and those sightings, I personally think it might be a case of mistaken identity. Maybe someone who looked like her was around that area and bought that toy for their child. I've heard in other cases where there were numerous sightings of someone missing, and when checked out it was someone who just looked very similar. Her children were all grown, and I don't think she had grandchildren? Just can't see her buying something like that. The whole thing is odd though.
 
It sounded like she was close to her kids. Why Ashville? Was that on the way to somewhere else? Like a friend or maybe she was trying to leave him and didn't feel safe. She could have planned to get away and contact family when she was secure and ready to divorce (MOO). The hiking is so odd.


What I find strange about the theory that she wanted to leave him is... why even go to PA? She didn't get on the flight with him due to her "forgetting" her ID, if that's what really happened and wasn't an excuse for some other reason... so she was by herself and he thought she'd be arriving later. If she truly wanted to get away, that would have been the perfect time and opportunity to leave and disappear. But apparently she flew to PA and disappeared after that. So it doesn't make sense to me. If she was scared of him, why wouldn't she run when she knew he was on the flight to PA and going to be at the conference? She could have gone wherever she was going straight from her home? Or called one of her kids to come get her and help her leave while he was away. She could have even called and left a message at the hotel that she had gotten ill and wouldn't be able to make it to PA to give herself more time.
 
I also think it's possible that some kind of stroke, or something else that affected her mentally, might have happened and she was confused and maybe someone took advantage of her. It's kind of a longshot though. I wish I knew if they bothered to do DNA on the blue backpack or the clothing that apparently wasn't hers, or the sunglasses, etc. If DNA turned up that was someone else's, it might lead to more clues to explore.

I was just thinking about this case yesterday and googled Judy Smith to see if there's anything new on the case. Her murder is still unsolved.

I still can't figure out why she ended up in Asheville and I'm still skeptical about the sightings of her there. I've been to the area of Asheville many times where she was reported seen and it's so touristy I can't imagine how or why anyone would remember her being in stores months later. But supposing they did remember her, in one account I found online she told a sales clerk she was shopping for her daughter, then the sales clerk said she appeared to be trying to get a young woman in the store to leave with her. This makes me wonder if she was delusional and thought the young woman was her daughter.

Some have speculated that she left her driver's license home on purpose because she didn't want to go on the trip with her husband. She was said to be a seasoned traveler and this has caused some to think "forgetting" her license was deliberate. But what if it wasn't? What if something was already going wrong with her?

I don't know whether she and her husband argued after she made it to the hotel on a later flight. I think bringing flowers to him indicates she expected him to be upset, unless they were in the habit of buying flowers for each other as a way of apologizing. Flowers seem like an odd choice of apology gift to bring a man, but then I don't know her husband and perhaps he loved flowers. If not, her odd choice of gift may also be evidence of some type of disordered thinking.

It could be they had words and she did decide to take off. Or it could be she became confused while out sightseeing. Maybe the idea of taking off to Asheville without telling anyone made perfect sense to her based on whatever was going on in her mind.

Someone in a confused or manic state of mind would be an easy victim for the wrong kind of person. Although she was said to be an intelligent woman, she was also said to have been willing to help people in need, so if she wasn't operating with her full mental faculties for some reason she may have been taken in by someone with bad intentions.

I'm wondering if her killer took the red backpack she was never without. A different backpack and some sunglasses were found with her remains, but one account I read states that these are believed to belong to her killer. I think another theory is possible: that these items belonged to another victim. It seems senseless for the killer to leave his own personal items at the scene.

It would appear that she willingly went hiking, either with someone else or alone, since she had evidently purchased clothing suitable for hiking. Since those who believe they saw her in Asheville saw her alone, I'm thinking maybe her killer was someone she met in the woods. There are some strange characters who hang out in the woods. Some are just homeless, some have mental issues, some are incapable of living in normal society, and some are up to illegal and/or violent activities.

If the dental records of the deceased person hadn't matched Judy, and if the deceased person hadn't been wearing Judy's wedding ring, I would suspect a misidentification has been made. It's just so odd she ended up where she did that I still wish I DNA comparison had been done.
 
I found out in another podcast that Jeffrey made her sign a prenuptial agreement. I hadn't known this before!! This did not go over well with Judy. This gives more credibility to the friend's statement saying that the marriage was "very tenuous".. She was apprehensive about getting married again. She was used to being independent and was also very outdoorsy, not a very good match for someone who could barely get around.. But, he was rich.. Given the short duration of the marriage and a couple other aspects thrown in, her leaving was intentional. Maybe she did have signs of some sort of mental disorder, she misses the flight, Jeff chides her for it, she feels trapped and doesn't know what to do, or maybe she does?? Maybe this was her plan all along, to run away with someone and make it look like a missing person case.. The head down to NC, but Judy's not a complete heartless and realizes she can't do that to Jeffrey and she decides to go back, but her newfound friend isn't having any of that. A awful scuffle ensues Judy tries to get away and he chases her up the mountainside with a knife in a jealous rage. That part has always puzzled me, how could she have gotten up the steep incline with such bad arthritis?? It'd be easy.. If you're being CHASED by someone who is going to kill you. He catches up to her and a further scuffle ensues, they are both wearing backpacks and Judy puts up one hell of a fight and during the struggle both backpacks are now on the ground. In the pitch darkness and once his rage wears off and "what the have I just done?!" replaces it, he hastily buries his backpack instead of Judy's. In full darkness I too wouldn't be able to tell red from blue. Besides, why in the hell would you kill someone and bury YOUR belongings at the scene?! I think this is exactly what happened..
 
Is anyone local to the area or knows without a shred of doubt where the body was actually found?
My co-worker is from Asheville and lived there around this time. I will ask her if she remembers this case.

According to this article,

"On September 7, 1997, a father and son went deer hunting at Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina. Near a picnic area, they stumbled upon a partially buried skeleton wrapped in a blue blanket".

This article places the exact area of the Pisgah National forest being near the Stony Point picnic area near Chestnut Creek.
 
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My co-worker is from Asheville and lived there around this time. I will ask her if she remembers this case.

According to this article,

"On September 7, 1997, a father and son went deer hunting at Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina. Near a picnic area, they stumbled upon a partially buried skeleton wrapped in a blue blanket".

This article places the exact area of the Pisgah National forest being near the Stony Point picnic area near Chestnut Creek.
 
Yeah definitely keep me posted.. I have a FB group set up for this called What happened to Judy Smith. A couple locals are part of it. Most ppl know is that is was up a steep incline. Down one side of the hill is Stony Fork park/ picnic area and down the other side of the hill is a bed and breakfast or something like that.
 
I also think it's possible that some kind of stroke, or something else that affected her mentally, might have happened and she was confused and maybe someone took advantage of her. It's kind of a longshot though. I wish I knew if they bothered to do DNA on the blue backpack or the clothing that apparently wasn't hers, or the sunglasses, etc. If DNA turned up that was someone else's, it might lead to more clues to explore.
 
Yeah I have heard that the picnic area is the hangout for a lot of rifraff and the person who did this knew the area well because the trail leading to the burial site is not well known.
The sightings in Philadelphia make me wonder if she had a mild stroke or some sort of mental break.
 
A thought occurred to me a while back and I'm sure it's a thought that hasn't occurred to many of us, but what if Judy went there on purpose to end her life? Given the great distance, the change of clothing, the now gone red backpack, no id YET she had money on her so robbery clearly wasn't a motive.. she found the most remote place she could find so as not to put her family through the agony of finding her body.. I worked with a lady once, nice lady, happily married, 2 kids, went home one night and put a gun in her mouth. No idea why.. but that's suicide for you, it rarely makes sense! Who the hell knows what was going on in Judy's mind.. Everyone says she was happy with Jeffrey, was she? She was 50 and a home care nurse. A lot of her patients were elderly. She may have been afraid of getting old herself. You throw in arthritis, menopause, and being thrust into a new marriage with someone who was clearly the breadwinner, he's a heavy man who no doubt relied on Judy's help, then you slap on the prenup.. Sounds like a recipe for an unhappy woman. Her kids will swear up and down that she was happy. One thing I know from experience is a mother will put on a front and a happy face so as not to upset her kids. Funny how everyone except Carolyn Dickey knew this. She described the marriage as "very tenuous".. just my current theory so don't come for me.
 

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