PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #8

[Lord_Chatterly]

Definitely.. So is the song "The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia" ( by Vicki Lawrence, of " Carol Burnett Show" fame)--- it was a national hit sometime in the 70's.. Lots of regional Southern Gothic songs were popular back when people cared to write lyrics with an intelligent type of implied pathos.

Oh, and years later, my favorite authors were Eudora Welty and William Faulkner- Master and Mistress of Southern Gothic classic literature...

When I was a little girl, every second Sunday in July I had to endure a family reunion in some godforsaken part of Georgia. I mean, we are talking my grandfather's siblings.. And my grandfather was a sharecropper who became a landowner, who became wealthy when the new highway was built through his property years before I was born. I was the only young child there. All I really remember are the heat and the drive that lasted longer than Miss Daisy's..
AND The Bridge horror story..

These reunions in the backwoods of Georgia took our small family ( mother, father and me) through some part of a Southern state that had an infamous bridge.
I can remember one or the other of them telling me every year about this woman who cut up her husband and dumped the body parts off the bridge.. If I was asleep in the huge back seat, I was awakened before we arrived at the bridge so I could see that freaky thing. Big old bridge with the rusty metal structure overhead.. I couldn't have been more than 6 years old when I first heard this, and my parents were the most conservative Southern Baptists you can imagine back then, before I loosened them up. It was obvious very early in my life that we did NOT share any genetic material. Once, when I was looking for a townhouse, I was shown a very lovely one. Then I got this feeling.,. one I get.. I said " Someone was killed in here weren't they?" The realtor almost fainted too. Yes, last owner. I didn't hang around to find out the circumstances.
Very sensitive to vibes of that nature..

Now I must say that you Loosen Us up as well !!! :floorlaugh: I can relate to the No Genetic material comment. So, with your Superior Skills with bridge matters, I think it appropriate that we appoint you to oversee the Lewisburg bridge affair that has garnished so much of our attention ! Shall we vote ? ok, the Ayes have it ~~~!!! LmaO !!! :crazy:

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

You have no idea how fast I write. I started that blog last night, but changed it when I heard from BB, this morning at 11:40 AM.

JKA noted that I had posted in excess of 1,500 times on the RFG case. I told a friend who knows my posting history elsewhere and he said, "Is that all?"

If you knew my actual publication list, actual physical stuff, you would easily understand that this is not a lot.

i certainly do not question that. Just the fact that you are on BB's contact list and he responded to you, I find to be admirable. I would have liked to have seen the 'original' Sporadic prior to the BB reply. Now THAT would have been something !!! Good work, JJ...and thanks.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Some late night Java, and an occassional trip outside to get fresh air, doing 'Forensics'.

1) Ivy Butterworth and what motivates her now so late in the game. What's the payoff for her ? Media attention ?
Don't know. Remains to be seen.

2) LE . Something leaked in the IB witness just days ago. Intentional ? A Ploy of sorts ? Don't know. We have seen this kind of thing before.

3) The Young Blonde. Our LYB new character. What planet is she from ? What kind of burden does she carry with her ? Certainly IF she exists.

4) Slovenia ? Where in the World is that ? RFG has 'heritage' ties there. I wonder who those people are.

I guess that would keep me awake at nights. Just some Sporadic Thoughts...no harm intended. :crazy:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

i certainly do not question that. Just the fact that you are on BB's contact list and he responded to you, I find to be admirable. I would have liked to have seen the 'original' Sporadic prior to the BB reply. Now THAT would have been something !!! Good work, JJ...and thanks.

Well, I don't think he wants to be the source for inaccurate information anymore that I do.

The first one was, could BB be mistaken or have been misquoted? I'd never heard of a blonde and that clearly didn't match the description of the LMW. It did not match the description of the person LE initially thought was the LMW, either.

That was why I wanted to hear from Chief Weaver or Detective Rickard before I thought this was going to be a good sighting.

One problem is that reporters are not researchers, unless they are trying to write a detailed feature article, or series, on the case. The reporter might have a vague recollection that RFG was seen with a woman in the SoS, but might not remember the details, and may not know who LE thought it was at the time.

If I were discussing the blonde with anyone that had been briefed by LE about it, I would have said, "Okay, the original mystery woman was reported to have dark hair. Are you telling me that someone saw Mr. Gricar in the Street of Shops that had blonde hair?"

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Well, I don't think he wants to be the source for inaccurate information anymore that I do.

The first one was, could BB be mistaken or have been misquoted? I'd never heard of a blonde and that clearly didn't match the description of the LMW. It did not match the description of the person LE initially thought was the LMW, either.

That was why I wanted to hear from Chief Weaver or Detective Rickard before I thought this was going to be a good sighting.

One problem is that reporters are not researchers, unless they are trying to write a detailed feature article, or series, on the case. The reporter might have a vague recollection that RFG was seen with a woman in the SoS, but might not remember the details, and may not know who LE thought it was at the time.

If I were discussing the blonde with anyone that had been briefed by LE about it, I would have said, "Okay, the original mystery woman was reported to have dark hair. Are you telling me that someone saw Mr. Gricar in the Street of Shops that had blonde hair?"

Bingo !!! Very explicit, and keeps everything on a more narrow track toward a 'valid' sighting. Now I see from your earlier comment of the "Utah" John Doe sighting from years back...eliminates (or helps eliminate) that from occurring...gotcha ! Good insight there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That seems to work, and I have heard you mention some of this scenario before. The only part I cannot follow is the virtual return to the scene of the crime...I am sure this "Other Person" would have known that RFG's car had been left behind EVER so close to the bridge toss off area. If that had been me doing the drop of the Laptop, I would be very concerned that cams may be everywhere, let alone all the 'Eyes on Everything' that would have followed the Gricar Disappearance media storm.

In short, why go back so close to Lewisburg ? Anyway, the scenario in general seems ok. Just the sequence may need turned around.

This could have been several weeks later. I've never heard about camera surveillance, even in cases of known murder. Plus, the thinking in the first few weeks was that the body would be fished out of the Susquehanna.

I think it would be possible that RFG might have mentioned tossing the drive into the river to the other person, but not specifically where he tossed it. The other person thinks that, if found, everyone will assume RFG tossed it.

Think about it, what if the person tossed it in Harrisburg or Johnstown or even Philadelphia. If it were discovered, LE would be asking who dropped it in any of these places.
That is one scenario.

 

[SeekingJana]

Now I must say that you Loosen Us up as well !!! :floorlaugh: I can relate to the No Genetic material comment. So, with your Superior Skills with bridge matters, I think it appropriate that we appoint you to oversee the Lewisburg bridge affair that has garnished so much of our attention ! Shall we vote ? ok, the Ayes have it ~~~!!! LmaO !!! :crazy:

Sure. I'll be on a plane to Lewisburg in the AM. What, exactly, do you want to see in your report? More photos of a bridge and muddy water?
I can throw the ex's laptop components in and see what goes where and video them..
Maybe I'll stay home ( it's freezing here in Texas, imo, and must be colder up North) and decorate my Christmas tree. :star2::star2::christmastree:

The bridge will still be there next summer, and I have a feeling this case will still be a topic of discussion..

 

[SeekingJana]

I won't be posting tonight. Tonight I write my Christmass letter.

You know I'm going to ask. Do you mean a chatty newsletter about what you did during 2011? The dog learned a new trick, you had exciting assignments, or saw Bigfoot, or whatever happened in your world?

Mine would say something like:" Got rid of 220 pounds in 3 months. Do not plan to retire to Belize with the settlement, but did give Panama a bit of thought. Dog now sleeps with me and knows the meaning of " Get on your pillow"."

Tell us what yours says.

And what would the rest of you have to say in your Christmas letters?.:christmastree:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You know I'm going to ask. Do you mean a chatty newsletter about what you did during 2011? The dog learned a new trick, you had exciting assignments, or saw Bigfoot, or whatever happened in your world?

Mine would say something like:" Got rid of 220 pounds in 3 months. Do not plan to retire to Belize with the settlement, but did give Panama a bit of thought. Dog now sleeps with me and knows the meaning of " Get on your pillow"."

Tell us what yours says.

And what would the rest of you have to say in your Christmas letters?.:christmastree:

It has the obligatory photo of me in black tie.

I point out how uninteresting my life was 2011. It reads more like an annual report. Then again, I have been known to footnote love letters.

I do use the term "Central Pennsylvania Gothic."

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Sure. I'll be on a plane to Lewisburg in the AM. What, exactly, do you want to see in your report? More photos of a bridge and muddy water?
I can throw the ex's laptop components in and see what goes where and video them..
Maybe I'll stay home ( it's freezing here in Texas, imo, and must be colder up North) and decorate my Christmas tree. :star2::star2::christmastree:

The bridge will still be there next summer, and I have a feeling this case will still be a topic of discussion..

Just pretend you're in Money, Mississippi. You know, the Tallahatchie Bridge !!! Just make sure ya don't fall in, however. Now in that report, leave some room for an interview with that Ivy Butterworth lady. You'll see her jogging over from Milton into Lewisburg to buy some Pepperoni rolls there at the SOS, ya know what I mean ?

That'll keep you busy for starters. And the ex's laptop...see how high the water splashes. L o L ....

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

It has the obligatory photo of me in black tie.

I point out how uninteresting my life was 2011. It reads more like an annual report. Then again, I have been known to footnote love letters.

I do use the term "Central Pennsylvania Gothic."

Having MAJOR :floorlaugh:

 

[SeekingJana]

It has the obligatory photo of me in black tie.

I point out how uninteresting my life was 2011. It reads more like an annual report. Then again, I have been known to footnote love letters.

I do use the term "Central Pennsylvania Gothic."

ROFLOL!!! Change " assignments" to " assignations", then. Do you email or snail mail? I haven't gotten a Christmas newsletter in the mail in a long time.

I did get an emailed one from Lisa Whelchel this week. Remember her? She was the blonde with 80's BIG HAIR who played Blair on " The Facts Of Life".
Lives near me in TX now.

Night!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

ROFLOL!!! Change " assignments" to " assignations", then. Do you email or snail mail? I haven't gotten a Christmas newsletter in the mail in a long time.

I did get an emailed one from Lisa Whelchel this week. Remember her? She was the blonde with 80's BIG HAIR who played Blair on " The Facts Of Life".
Lives near me in TX now.

Night!

These are snail mail.

I believe Ms. Whelchel writes Christian children's books.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A bit more on topic, Sandusky posted bail:

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/08/3013382/sandusky-posts-bail.html

 

[Bellaneph]

Why would he take his laptop for fear of it being stolen, but leave his cell phone? All evidence at scene looks like he left voluntarily; including the laptop and the hard drive. The smell of smoke in the car with the ash on the floor points to someone sitting in the car smoking (with the ash blowing back into the car). I think we are making this much more complicated than what it is.

btw who is BB?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Why would he take his laptop for fear of it being stolen, but leave his cell phone? All evidence at scene looks like he left voluntarily; including the laptop and the hard drive. The smell of smoke in the car with the ash on the floor points to someone sitting in the car smoking (with the ash blowing back into the car). I think we are making this much more complicated than what it is.

Well, good point, that I did not think about. :blushing:

Maybe, he just forgot about the phone?

btw who is BB?

Robert W Buehner, the outgoing DA of Montour County and friend of RFG.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

A bit more on topic, Sandusky posted bail:

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/08/3013382/sandusky-posts-bail.html

I had seen it on HLN. I had a weird feeling when I looked at the report, and where it was coming from: Bellefont .

Bellefont is no coincidence is what my gut tells me.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Why would he take his laptop for fear of it being stolen, but leave his cell phone? All evidence at scene looks like he left voluntarily; including the laptop and the hard drive. The smell of smoke in the car with the ash on the floor points to someone sitting in the car smoking (with the ash blowing back into the car). I think we are making this much more complicated than what it is.

Yes, the Cell phone left behind is a Walkaway signal. A cell phone is far easier to carry with you, unless you don't need the burden of it...that's the only time I would do that, is when I don't want to be bothered with it. Good, clear thinking, Bellaneph.

I see you also have done some smoking "Forensics" ?

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Well, good point, that I did not think about. :blushing:

Maybe, he just forgot about the phone?

And all those missed calls.

 

[SeekingJana]

These are snail mail.

I believe Ms. Whelchel writes Christian children's books.

Lisa's written about 10 books now, with varying success and quite a bit of justifiable controversy with one book. The only one I own is " The Facts Of Life and Other Stories My Father Told Me", which is a sanitized bio about her early childhood and years on TV, mostly. She has written many books related to child- raising and homeschooling and some very conservative Christian books, none of which interest me at all. Then she did a series of " Mom Time" books, again, wouldn't even have checked them out of the library because her ideas about " mothering" and mine are or were so radically different.

She decided, while she was home 24/7 with 3 very young children and their very passive father, to discipline them according to Biblical principles as she interpreted them. Most of the things in her book " Creative Corrections" deal with physically " reminding" a young child of the errors of thei ways in an especially cruel way, IMO. All things she thought up.. I have often wanted to ask her if she was hurt as a young child by her parents.
There is enough about this out there on the Internet.. I didn't know her when she did what she did to her own 3 precious children, or when she wrote the book telling others how to cultivate " obedient" children.

The only things I can say in her defense is that her intent was to teach, not harm, and that the Lisa I came to know when her children were almost grown is kind, funny and generous. She lives to shop ( and eat) now that her 3 little blessings have gone to college or otherwise moved far away from Grapevine, TX.