GUILTY PA - Tom, 51, Lisa, 47, & Kevin Haines, 16, murdered, Manheim Twp, 12 May 2007

[christine2448]

The latest update - Lancaster New Era - 5/16/07.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204275

Thanks poco for the update, here is something from the article that I thought interesting:

"These killings are violent and brutal," Kirchner said. "This is not a sterile hit."

Kirchner said the term "sterile hit" is used to describe a homicide scene with little blood, often a sign the crime was done quickly.

This was done "up close and personal," Kirchner said.

 

[PSUfan]

Another break-in early this morning. The full article can be found at www.wgal.com

Police Investigate Home Invasion In Lancaster County


POSTED: 7:38 am EDT May 16, 2007
UPDATED: 8:07 am EDT May 16, 2007

LITITZ, Pa. -- A family near Lititz, Lancaster County awoke to someone trying to break into their home.Police said the suspect broke into a locked back door at the home on Brookwood Drive.When police arrived they got the family out safely. The suspect hid in a locked upstairs bedroom.
He then jumped out of a second story window and broke into a neighboring home.Police arrested him in that home.Police said the suspect was injured and was taken to Lancaster General Hospital.Police are investigating whether this home invasion is related to a triple murder in Manheim Township last weekend.

I read somewhere else that the intruder fled when he was confronted. Doesn't sound like this would be related to the MT incident.

 

[luthersmama]

Another break-in early this morning. The full article can be found at www.wgal.com


I read somewhere else that the intruder fled when he was confronted. Doesn't sound like this would be related to the MT incident.

He didn't run far. Just to the next house!

This sounds like somebody desperately looking for drugs or alcohol. I don't think he is a murderer.

 

[PSUfan]

He didn't run far. Just to the next house!

This sounds like somebody desperately looking for drugs or alcohol. I don't think he is a murderer.

Yep! The latest update says there is no connection between the 2 incidents.

I can imagine local security/alarm companies are busy lately. I personally know of 2 people who have called their alarm companies to have the alarms reactivated.

 

[misterallgood]

http://www.centredaily.com/126/story/97884.html

Quote from the article:

The person who stabbed to death a couple and their son may have injured his or her hand, arm or another body part, police said Wednesday in a new appeal for the public's help in solving the crime.Also, the killer may have lied about his or her whereabouts from 1 to 3 a.m. Saturday, when Thomas and Lisa Haines and their teenage son Kevin were slain, Manheim Township police said.
"If you know this person, you may not think they are capable of this type of crime," police said in a news release. "They may also have fabricated an alibi concerning their whereabouts during this time frame. They may not have a prior record of violence."

​

Sounds like a number of us here were already thinking along these lines -- that this person wasn't an experienced criminal.

When I was writing a blog entry about this, I found a little police blotter mention from 2003 where someone had stolen the Haines's mailbox. A very odd crime, on the whole -- sounded like a prank. Logically there may be no connection at all -- unless there's a young person who has been the scourge of the area for a while, and they finally escalated.

Gotta wonder. I believe more than ever that the killer didn't register that Maggie had come home, and dealt only with the family members they expected to be there. This was possibly what I think of as a semi-random crime. Semi-random in that the motive for it will never be too clear (past sheer evil), but perhaps somewhat planned in advance, maybe with some surveillance being done of the Haines home beforehand.

Steve/Mr. A.

 

[Hbgchick]

Hi all,

Here we are again, talking about yet another PA murder. Nice to see you Christine/poco/Steve, sorry it's under these circumstances. WHAT the heck is going ON?!?

My gut tells me that the killer(s) didn't know Maggie was home. AND that they weren't thinking "sister/college/summer break", which also leads me to believe that the person(s) who did this might likely be young, as in high school, age.

I am very anxious to see how this plays out. I just don't know what to think at this point.

 

[luthersmama]

Hmmm....sounds like there might be blood at the scene that doesn't match the victims! This could be the real clincher if they ever get hold of the guy.

Mailbox theft and vandalism is very common around here, particularly in semi-rural areas where there are not frequent police patrols. Probably only 1/3 of the victims even bother to call the police.

 

[misterallgood]

I can't believe I didn't think of this before.

Why did Maggie have to run next door?

Was she just in a panic, or were the phone lines cut?

Anyone catch something I missed in the news that might answer that question?

I'm not trying to cast suspicion on the young woman. My guess at an answer to the question is that she was panicked. But the lines could have been cut, too, which is pretty creepy.

Steve/Mr. A

 

[PSUfan]

I can't believe I didn't think of this before.

Why did Maggie have to run next door?

Was she just in a panic, or were the phone lines cut?

Anyone catch something I missed in the news that might answer that question?

I'm not trying to cast suspicion on the young woman. My guess at an answer to the question is that she was panicked. But the lines could have been cut, too, which is pretty creepy.

Steve/Mr. A

She woke to a scuffle in her brothers room, and went to her parents room where her mother told her to "go get help". Not, "call 911". The daughter may have sensed that something was very wrong, and that was why she ran across the street.

Also, the police did say that they have no reason to believe the daughter was involved, but they are keeping an open mind. They said she is cooperating fully, which probably means she has taken a lie detector test as well. I know I sure would, if it would help the investigation to move forward, and away from me.

 

[misterallgood]

She woke to a scuffle in her brothers room, and went to her parents room where her mother told her to "go get help". Not, "call 911". The daughter may have sensed that something was very wrong, and that was why she ran across the street.

Also, the police did say that they have no reason to believe the daughter was involved, but they are keeping an open mind. They said she is cooperating fully, which probably means she has taken a lie detector test as well. I know I sure would, if it would help the investigation to move forward, and away from me.

I realized after I voiced similar questions at my blog that I didn't word the message well -- it sounds more suspicious of Maggie than intended.

The first thought that came to mind, actually, was this -- were the phone lines cut? I guess I was wondering if perhaps the mother had even tried, but if the phones were out, well -- that was the main thing I was thinking.

The level of panic Maggie must have felt explains just getting the hell out of the house alone, not to mention the fact that she apparently heard something going on in Kevin's room.

Steve/Mr. A

 

[englishleigh]

I fell asleep last night thinking about this case. I have some questions.

1) Were there any signs of forced entry into the home? If not, then that could mean that possibly Kevin got up and let someone into the house, someone he knew...or that Maggie is the killer, since she was already inside the house, but I really don't believe Maggie did it.

2) Was the murder weapon left behind? Has anything been found that could have been the murder weapon?

 

[Shadow205]

Hi all,

Here we are again, talking about yet another PA murder. Nice to see you Christine/poco/Steve, sorry it's under these circumstances. WHAT the heck is going ON?!?

My gut tells me that the killer(s) didn't know Maggie was home. AND that they weren't thinking "sister/college/summer break", which also leads me to believe that the person(s) who did this might likely be young, as in high school, age.

I am very anxious to see how this plays out. I just don't know what to think at this point.

I have been thinking along those lines too. It is however possible that the killer just had not made it to Maggie's room yet. He/she evidently went into the parents room first then moved to the brother's room. It was at that point that Maggie was awakened by the noise of a scuffle. We don't know whether the killer would have moved on to Maggie's room after he finsihed in the brother's room. He/she could have know that she was home but was saving her for last. Maybe he/she wanted to have more time with her

 

[opme]

I grew up in Blossom hill and now live not far .. a few miles to the east.
Obviously this is one that hits home with me due to my history and the nearness of the location. I am in this area on a frequent basis and have family that lives not far from Blossom Hill.

I do beleive this is a personal crime. The family was targeted specifially. I wonder if this is a friend of one of the sons.. someone who has a key or knows where the spare key is kept... though there are still many in lancaster that do not lock their doors.
Knives in general are a personal crime .. a knife crime is dirty and up close and personal whichs leads me to beleive that this is a more personal although it could be that it was a school friend that knew there was specific money or items in the house that would be easy to burgler..and in the midst the son caught them in the act forcing the crime to escalate to one of murder.
The Lancaster police have brought in an FBI Profiler to draw up a profile of the perp in this case .. and the policy are continuing to appeal to the public to be aware and report anyone with injuries or with unknown whereabouts between the hours of 1 and 3 am.

 

[misterallgood]

Wasn't it after police went to Manheim Twp HS that they announced for the first time that they had some leads?

If so, that tells us something -- something was going on at the school.

A male acquaintance of Kevin's, I'm thinking. A fairly good kid, outwardly, but probably not nearly as intelligent as Kevin Haines. If you can get into facebook.com, look up Kevin Haines under Facebook groups to see the memorial "wall" a friend made for Kevin and his family. There are a lot of comments, but they often run towards "I didn't know him well, but he seemed like a great guy, really smart." The "really smart" being a running theme.

Whoever killed the Haineses has been priming himself with violent movies and video games. The person will prize stealth and quiet, and be pretty sly, even though he's criminally unsophisticated. There may have been some personal cause behind the murders, but I feel in the end that personal cause may only be a pretext.

I get the feeling that maybe the person who killed the Haines family wanted to see if he could really kill, after all.

Now that he has, he is very dangerous, and grows more dangerous the longer he remains free.

It could have been a transient looking for money who got caught in a burglary, yes. I don't think it was a "hit," though, and I really don't think it was any sort of gang thing.

I also strongly doubt any connection between Maggie Haines and the murders, and Hbgchick made the strongest case as to why we should doubt that above. Whoever killed these people just didn't know that Maggie was there.

A lot of people are praying for Maggie, too. I'm sure she needs it.

Steve/Mr. A

 

[txsvicki]

I have been thinking along those lines too. It is however possible that the killer just had not made it to Maggie's room yet. He/she evidently went into the parents room first then moved to the brother's room. It was at that point that Maggie was awakened by the noise of a scuffle. We don't know whether the killer would have moved on to Maggie's room after he finsihed in the brother's room. He/she could have know that she was home but was saving her for last. Maybe he/she wanted to have more time with her

I was also thinking that the Dad could have been stabbed more because he woke and began to struggle, waking the son. The son could have called out and caused the attacker to rush to his bedroom and the scuffle began. What seems odd to me is that the mom was only stabbed once, was able to talk, but didn't mention a word about who stabbed them or how many, and she wasn't able to try and crawl off the bed or get to a phone. The son was stabbed many times but must have somehow gotten into the hall. Doesn't quite all make sense.

 

[misterallgood]

I was also thinking that the Dad could have been stabbed more because he woke and began to struggle, waking the son. The son could have called out and caused the attacker to rush to his bedroom and the scuffle began. What seems odd to me is that the mom was only stabbed once, was able to talk, but didn't mention a word about who stabbed them or how many, and she wasn't able to try and crawl off the bed or get to a phone. The son was stabbed many times but must have somehow gotten into the hall. Doesn't quite all make sense.

It could be that the males were perceived as the bigger threats.

Psychologically that would make sense. Another thing that would make sense might be that the killer, if they knew the family, was most hesitant to kill Mrs. Haines, for whatever reason. They did it more to eliminate a witness, saving more vicious treatment for the males.

That'd be a twist on the psychology of a lot of thrill-killers, who are often much more cruel to female victims.

But you're right -- it doesn't quite all make sense.

Steve/ Mr. A

 

[Annie]

I wish we knew more about the daughter. Who was she dating? Did the parents like her friends? What did she plan to do for the summer? Did they set up rules she didn't like? Something doesn't sound quite right with her story to me.

 

[christine2448]

http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_137131713.html

An FBI profiler is working with Manheim Township police in the investigation into the killings of three members of the Thomas Haines family.


More than 300 people gathered at the Neffsville Mennonite Church last night for a prayer service to remember the family.



I did not now they were Mennonite (did you all?) . Isn't that like Amish? Forgive me, I am not familiar.

 

[christine2448]

According to police, the perpetrator did not steal anything from the home. The murder weapon was not found at the scene, and there were no signs of forced entry; however, investigators did discover that a door at the rear of the home was open. Police removed several items from the home; however, according to Lancaster County District Attorney Donald Totaro, that information has been sealed because it could compromise the investigation.



What we know about the victims is limited. According to neighbors, they were not very sociable within the community. According to police, Thomas Haines was a salesman at Motion Industries in Lancaster, and wife Lisa was a teacher at Lancaster Brethren Preschool. Kevin was a sophomore at Manheim Township High School, where he was an active member of the Quiz Bowl team. The family's lone survivor, Maggie, just completed her sophomore year at Bucknell. She moved back home two days before the murders took place.

Crime Library

 

[PSUfan]

Wasn't it after police went to Manheim Twp HS that they announced for the first time that they had some leads?

If so, that tells us something -- something was going on at the school.

A male acquaintance of Kevin's, I'm thinking. A fairly good kid, outwardly, but probably not nearly as intelligent as Kevin Haines. If you can get into facebook.com, look up Kevin Haines under Facebook groups to see the memorial "wall" a friend made for Kevin and his family. There are a lot of comments, but they often run towards "I didn't know him well, but he seemed like a great guy, really smart." The "really smart" being a running theme.

Whoever killed the Haineses has been priming himself with violent movies and video games. The person will prize stealth and quiet, and be pretty sly, even though he's criminally unsophisticated. There may have been some personal cause behind the murders, but I feel in the end that personal cause may only be a pretext.

I get the feeling that maybe the person who killed the Haines family wanted to see if he could really kill, after all.

Now that he has, he is very dangerous, and grows more dangerous the longer he remains free.

It could have been a transient looking for money who got caught in a burglary, yes. I don't think it was a "hit," though, and I really don't think it was any sort of gang thing.

I also strongly doubt any connection between Maggie Haines and the murders, and Hbgchick made the strongest case as to why we should doubt that above. Whoever killed these people just didn't know that Maggie was there.

A lot of people are praying for Maggie, too. I'm sure she needs it.

Steve/Mr. A

No, the police announced that they had some leads after the first press conference was held, where they appealed to the public for help. It was at that time that the estimator for my store, (upon my advice) called the detectives to let them know that the family was about to start a remodel project. I thought that they may have had several other estimators in the home, giving them estimates, and also maybe leaving confusing fingerprints. Estimators would also know the layout of the home.

Another thing, they are conducting a "victimology" study on the family.. trying to get to know everything about them and how they lived their lives. That would be the reason for the police spending all the time at the highschool.. and the reason that the detective asked our estimator the types of questions that he asked him.