Patsy's Rings

[SisterSocks]

I also find the ring theory very possible. It doesn't need to have been Patsy as the killer though. If an accident occured like in a BDI theory, Patsy may have held her daughter after finding the body thus leaving marks from her rings on the body.

Well If it was a terrible accident. I am sure she would have held her tight ,trying to wake her up? Yup.. The rings. On the fence about the stun gun indeed.

 

[Maxi]

The dentures idea came from the info that pageant contestants with missing teeth sometimes wore little bridges until their new teeth grew in.

 

[Blazeboy3]

OK...I'm shamefully trulthfully "confused beyond imagination as to what now???!!!" ... know what??? ... ~~~ ???... me either ... ~~~ :crazy: >>??? :doh: :chicken: :blowkiss: :croc: :hand: :laugh: :silenced:

... ANYONE HAVE THE REASON/ANSWER???...!!!~~~

 

[Jayelles]

Wecht speaks in his latest book about post mortem injury which indicated that JonBenet had been shaken and he theorised that she had been shaken in an attempt to revive her.

 

[SisterSocks]

I saw it too. It was here, either in 2000 or 2001. Can't remember the poster, Nandee? maybe. I believe it was in the same thread that talked about JonBenet wearing "dentures." Sorry I can't be more specific. As I recall the thread was about the depth of Patsy's disappointment if JonBenet didn't end up as Miss America. I don't know how totally serious the poster was but they did say it.
QUOTE]



Jon Benet had NOT lost any baby teeth. <DOI> Although ,she had some loose... in the the paegant world these dentures are called Flippers and they can only be used after the child has lost top front or bottom front teeth.
Socks

 

[Jayelles]

I saw it too. It was here, either in 2000 or 2001. Can't remember the poster, Nandee? maybe. I believe it was in the same thread that talked about JonBenet wearing "dentures." Sorry I can't be more specific. As I recall the thread was about the depth of Patsy's disappointment if JonBenet didn't end up as Miss America. I don't know how totally serious the poster was but they did say it.

So basically, this "theory" about JonBenet not growing tall enough was posted maybe 3/4 years ago by one poster? Yet Toth continues to tout it as though it was a theory collectively held by a large number of people on certain forums?

But my reason for posting now is to say I think the ring theory would only work if she was wearing two large solitaires. Anything else would not leave such clean margins.

Perhaps. It does bear considering though that 1) the Boulder Police have consistently dismissed the stungun theory and 2) they have never released the photos taken of the Ramseys at Fleet Whites.

We don't know what the new investigation team think, but I've always thought it was odd that the White's Christmas Day photos have been retained within the police file.

When I did my stungun image experiment and compared the pigmark photos with the images of JonBenet, I created real-life size images of both using a metal "Weights and Measures Approved" ruler (that means that officially, it is accurate). My printouts include scans of the ruler and these match the real ruler. The autopsy rulers also match the real ruler on the front plane (which is the essentail one).

The thing that surprised me most about the real-size image of JonBenet is how small the marks actually are. The images we see on the Internet have been blown up in size. In reality, the marks are about the size of a normal undilated adult (eye) pupil. I printed these out on white paper and also on clear acetate so that I could overlay the pigmarks with the marks on Jonbenet. Overlaying them clearly shows they don't match. The pigmarks are bigger and spaced farther apart.

Anyway, I put rings with stones on my middle and ring fingers, turning them inwards and it doesn't take much a a stretch of the fingers to get the stones to match up with the marks. I have small hands. It wouldn't take particularly large ringstones to make those marks.

 

[Imon128]

Jayelles, good post. I have a tab that has a photo of Patsy with her ring facing the inside of her hand. I sent it here to WS's and it was posted ever so long ago. You do good work, gal!

 

[Arielle]

I just wanted to reply to the poster who said that wearing gloves would have provided enough of a "cushion" to prevent abraisions from rings. If the gloves worn were thin, such as latex exam gloves, the rings would be perfectly able to make marks. I have to take my rings off at work because the points holding the stones in will actually rip through the gloves if they are subjected to enough wear agains them.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Jayelles,

I tried to PM you yesterday and again today and it is telling me that your inbox is full, or something to that effect

Anyway, thank you for letting me know 'they' were discussing my theory. And, thank you for your support. You're a sweetie

Awesome picture of Patsy's ring, btw. I think a ring that size could certainly damage the skin in the same manner we see on JBR's autopsy photos.

Here is the link for my ring 'experiment,' in case anyone missed it:

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Essential to the 'ring theory' is that at the time of this supposed bedwetting incident Patsy would have had to have been wearing her rings in the middle of the night.

Not totally impossible, though highly unlikely.

Toth, you probably don't understand what 'mommy brain' is. I certainly do. Menial tasks like removing rings before you go to bed (if you are lucky enough to even remove your clothes) are sometimes, if not frequently overlooked.

I never, ever remove most of my rings. Some of them won't even fit over my knuckle. I have a few that are precious to me and I would rather just keep them on (and clean them with a toothbrush when needed)
:sick:, believe it or not.

I also keep my watch on all of the time. It is just a matter of what you get used to doing.

I mean, heck, some of us even put the same clothes on the next morning that we just wore the night before...Know anyone like that? :waitasec:

 

[Maikai]

The stones on both are different...and the "abrasions" on JBR are the same distance apart. and same shape, except for the one on her face which is similar to Boggs, and would result in the stun gun not being flat against her face. And Doberson had more than just looking at pictures. He could magnify and compare the marks on Boggs, and their appearance from the electrical charge, to those on JBR. IT WAS A STUN GUN, FOLKS.

I think the Patsy being short story came from her being the shortest Miss America contestant ever entered. If not THE shortest, then one of the shortest. Most of them were tall and leggy.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

The stones on both are different...and the "abrasions" on JBR are the same distance apart. and same shape, except for the one on her face which is similar to Boggs, and would result in the stun gun not being flat against her face. And Doberson had more than just looking at pictures. He could magnify and compare the marks on Boggs, and their appearance from the electrical charge, to those on JBR...

Maikai,

Correct me if I am wrong , but I thought the two sets of marks on JBR were close to being equadistant, but not exact by any means.

Maybe someone else can help me with my source for this information. I am drawing a blank here...

Anyway, I believe one of the problems raised with the stun gun theory is the fact that the markings are not, in fact, the same distance apart on the body. A stun gun would make identically spaced abrasions.

 

[Jayelles]

Yes, my inbox appears to be full! I shall get around to cleaning it out sometime later today.

I have never seen your ring photos before. Could you explain a little bit about them? What fingers did you have them on? How far apart were the marks?

About the marks on JonBenet. There is only one mark on her face in any photo that I have seen. Ramsey supporters have suggested that the other stungun prod landed on the duct tape and that is why it isn't visible - but this theory gets discredited as it necessitates the duct tape being on her mouth BEFORE the perp stunned her to subdue her - in which case why is there a perfect lip print on the duct tape and not signs that her mouth was moving?

IMPORTANT - there is an image on *******'s website showing a comparison of the pigmarks and the marks on JonBenet. This image is quite misleading (intentionally or otherwise) in that the photo of JonBenet has been ENLARGED so that it matches the pigmarks. In reality, the marks on JonBenet are smaller. I would certainly urge anyone who has 100% faith in *******'s integrity to check THAT one out!

When I did this experiment, I urged people to replicate it. I explained exactly how I did it and it would have been straightforward for anyone else to repliate. As far as I am aware, none of my critics attempted to replicate it although many sneered at it and ******* called it a 'BORG' experiment (whatever that might mean!)

Margoo attacked it saying that it had many errors of logic, but despite my many appeals for her to tell me what these were (I asked 6/7/ times), she was unwilling (or perhaps more likely 'unable') to do so.

Maxi posted an image of bite marks on her daughter and I would say that the marks on JonBenet do look like what one would imagine vampire bites to look like. They certainly resemble Maxi's bite image more than the pigmarks do.

The marks on JonBenet look like bruising. The RST say this could be achieved if the stungun were pressed hard against her. Yes they also say that the larger mark on her face could be explained if the prod didn't make full contact ??????? So are we to believe that the perp pressed the prods into her to bruise her and then lifted it slightly to stun her?

 

[Shylock]

except for the one on her face which is similar to Boggs, and would result in the stun gun not being flat against her face. And Doberson had more than just looking at pictures. He could magnify and compare the marks on Boggs,

I think the problem is you're looking at the marks on Boggs after he had been in the ground for a year. The fresh marks from Bogg's autopsy look nothing like anything on JonBenet.

You can't compare apples and oranges and say you have grapes--it just doesn't work that way. The marks on Boggs look even less similar to what is on JonBenet then Smit's pig marks do.

 

[Nehemiah]

The marks on JonBenet look like bruising. The RST say this could be achieved if the stungun were pressed hard against her. Yes they also say that the larger mark on her face could be explained if the prod didn't make full contact ??????? So are we to believe that the perp pressed the prods into her to bruise her and then lifted it slightly to stun her?

Jayelles, on the program last night, Smit said that with a stun gun infliction, one of the two marks would be larger. Maybe he did say it was due to pressing in; I'm not sure if he said why. I just remember him making reference to the fact that one would be larger and then he showed the pictures of Boggs and how the marks resembled.

 

[Jayelles]

I think the problem is you're looking at the marks on Boggs after he had been in the ground for a year. The fresh marks from Bogg's autopsy look nothing like anything on JonBenet.

You can't compare apples and oranges and say you have grapes--it just doesn't work that way. The marks on Boggs look even less similar to what is on JonBenet then Smit's pig marks do.

In Bogg's pre-burial photo, the stungun marks resemble the marks on Doberson's pig.

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles, on the program last night, Smit said that with a stun gun infliction, one of the two marks would be larger. Maybe he did say it was due to pressing in; I'm not sure if he said why. I just remember him making reference to the fact that one would be larger and then he showed the pictures of Boggs and how the marks resembled.

I think that a stungun would produce even marks if there was even pressure/distance between the skin and each prod. Apparently if there is not actual contact, the electricity dances around and causes amore scattered appearance to the marks. However, I am referring to the much darkened appearance of JonBenet's marks. That darkening resembles bruising which could only be caused by a stungun if it were thrust against her hard enough for the prods to bruise her skin (even without the electricity being triggered).

In the past, the RST have suggested that this did in fact happen - that the perp jabbed at JonBenet so brutally with the stungun that the prods bruised her skin - but there is no reason for the perp to do that if he could just put the stungun close to her and press the trigger causing more severe pain and momentary incapacitation.

 

[why_nutt]

In Bogg's pre-burial photo, the stungun marks resemble the marks on Doberson's pig.

I think some deception, or at the very least an ignoring of data right in front of one's eyes, has been going on on the subject of the marks on JonBenet's face. The traditional pairing of face marks said to be from the stun gun are these:

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/group1b.jpg

But wait a minute. Why is it that this other pair of marks are ignored, even though the marks look just like each other, requiring no mental gymnastics to explain why one should be so much larger than the other?

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/group2b.jpg

In my opinion, Smit wants the single large mark to be from a stun gun. He is not open to the possibility of anything else (and if anybody wants to argue that point, present evidence that Smit has offered any other explanation for it, tested that alternate theory, and rejected it). But since a stun gun cannot disable a person unless both probes make electrical contract with each other through a circuit completed by a person's skin and body, he had to find another mark which would be spaced near enough to the large mark to serve as a probe artifact. So he picked the small, faint mark nearby. (A mark, by the way, which was originally covered by a flake of material. Stun-gun advocates want the flake to be an artifact of adhesive melted off the tape as the stun gun was fired through it. They fail to state that the tape is not said, by even the mose diehard Ramsey defender, to have a melted spot on it.)

 

[Barbara]

I do not have a source, but someone else here might. It is my understanding that Smit has re-evaluated his statements on the use of an Air Taser stun gun. Originally, that was the big statement, but after having had it refuted by others, he had conceded that it might not be an Air Taser after all. I am not sure about his stun gun theory being reconsidered or just the brand of Stun gun he is backpedalling about. Hope someone else can clarify. My memory ain't what it used to be for details on sources, books, page numbers and the like anymore :crazy:

The RST has stated that Steve Tuttle's reason for denying that it is the Air Taser is because it is "bad for business". What a crock! The Air Taser stun gun is sold because of its use as a STUN GUN! There is no business loss associated with a stun gun doing its job. If anything, it would have gotten him free advertising. I am sure nobody wants their products associated with the death of anyone, especially a child, but for heaven's sake, can you imagine companies making weapons denying that their weapons were used to harm or kill someone? THAT'S WHY THEY CALL THEM WEAPONS!!!!! WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY A STUN GUN THAT WOULD NOT DO ITS JOB?

As far as the wearing of rings; I never take my rings off. I do not have any female friends who remove their rings either. I do remove my watch and other jewelry after coming home from work, but not the rings. I got curious and asked the women I work with and only one woman said she took off her rings at night before bedtime. So for the record, the majority of women never take their rings off.

 

[tipper]

My recollection is that Smit allowed there might be a stun gun somewhere that was an even better fit to the marks than an Air Taser. If I get a chance I'll look for the quote later today.

As far as the rings go I think it depends on whether Patsy regularly changes her rings to go with whatever she's wearing. I wear one ring on my right hand that has been passed along to the oldest surviving female for generations. I never take that off. Everything else gets taken off every night (as do my earrings) since I don't know what I'll be wearing tomorrow. Do the pictures of Patsy's rings always show the same ring or is there a variety?