Pesticides Taken from the home

[butwhatif?]

I remember when I was researching the results from the body farm, I found a great site that explained everything they do in laymans terms. Particularly with Vass' current research.

They had said that now that so many people watch crime shows, they've learnt to use things like bug spray to stop flies and maggots getting to the corpse.

I think they also said the mistake with crims that do this is that it helps preserve the body to some degree.
I know I saved it somewhere in my Pc so I'll try to find it.

She may not have sprayed the trunk itself, and thats why they found flies and maggots. She may have sprayed directly into the bag at the dump site. And then sealed it with tape just in case.

It makes me sick on so many levels.

ETA: I found it. But I was wrong about it preserving the body. I dont know if i just wished that were the case, or if I actually read it somewhere else.(likely the former )

Its got lots of great info, but is probably not for the weak stomached...

http://whyfiles.org/192forensic_anthro/index.html

"A body will also skeletonize faster if it is buried in acidic ground. (Soil in pine forests tend to be far more acidic than soil in deciduous forests.) And "perps," says Vass, are getting better at warping bodies and burial sites to confuse investigators. Vass suspects they learn tricks -- like spraying insecticide on a body to ward off insects -- from TV shows like CSI.

The business of bugs
It creates a big scientific headache when that happens, Jantz says, because bugs make great witnesses. We know we promised to stick to anthropology, but forgive us for a little digression. The American Board of Forensic Entomology lists only eight members, but their work is key in crime-solving.

Only two dozen types of insects eat rotting human flesh. The two stars are the carrion feeders (Calliphoridae) and the flesh flies ( Sarcophagidae). Distinguishing the three larval stages is often the first step in determining how long a body has been dead.

By comparing species found on a body with those in the area, forensic entomologists can also figure out whether a body was moved.

DNA fingerprinting can be used to identify insect species or, sometimes, human content found in their guts. (See "A DNA-based approach..." in the bibliography "

 

[SuziQ]

She ran out of gas and called Tony from this location. She started walking to the Anthony's home and Tony picked her up near the Anthony home enroute. She couldn't walk away from a broken down vehicle with a body in the trunk so she did a half *advertiser censored* disposal down the hill. Probably planned to come back at a later date and never did. This happened on either 6-20 or 6-23. Tony's statement says the 23rd, her texts and the neighbors siting support the 20th. The 20th was a fusian night, so she probably didn't want to get dirty doing a better job hiding her.

I always thought of this scenario in regards to Amscot in the dumpster. But now we know where Caylee was placed, your theory does make sense. KC sure never had an exit stradegy. Deal with it later, out of sight out of mind.

 

[servingothers]

This bi%^h thought this out long and hard. There is so much premeditation here. How could you look at your child everyday, knowing you are going to kill her soon? I hope they fry her :furious:.

It would have been so simple to simply let Caylee drown in the swimming pool and call 911 saying she went inside to get something and came back and couldn't find Caylee and when she did she was in the bottom of the pool. Much easier for her to get away with. To make up stories about a Zanny and actually kill her and try to cover up the smell with pesticides etc. Really dumb. Things about this case actually make no sense at all and probably won't until she tells all.

 

[LeLe1953]

Could she have tried to kill off the maggots in an earlier growth phase to throw off the determination of the time elapsed since death?

I wonder if she used the pesticides to kill Caylee. She had looked up house hold hazards & everyone knows toddlers get ahold of anything & everything & put lots of things in their mouth. She could have said Caylee got ahold of it real fast while she carried in bags from the car or when she was cleaning her car. I wonder how high up it was kept or if it was kept in a locked area to prevent Caylee from getting ahold of it.

 

[roller26]

I've read that the use of lime or rather "quicklime" (same thing?) can be used to speed-up decompositon. I've actually come across it a few times when reading about different cases/crimes.

here's a short account of what one perp did:

"She had covered the bodies with lime in an attempt to speed up the process of decomposition but made the classic mistake of putting the lime on dry. In order to make the quicklime work it actually has to be mixed with water and then it will burn through flesh and bone. "

http://www.real-crime.co.uk/Murder1/SERIAL.HTML#Dorothea_Montalvo_Puente

 

[21merc7]

I know this was discussed before and someone who knows more about the chemistry of the different types of lime can explain this, but I thought it was quicklime that was used in graves. I know that's not the same as garden lime.

I don't know what used to put in graves, but I can tell you garden lime, that you buy at say Lowe's will NOT mask decomp smell. I use it to try to get rid of dog urine smell in the yard, it still doesn't work. I shake a lot of it on the ground too, it is messy, except for the granular kind. Still have dog odor. No way it would help decomp odor.

 

[Manny]

Just an observation. I think everyone knows Casey is insane. Perhaps not legally, but insane none the less. Trying to make sense or know what is in her mind is like trying to swim in mud, useless.

 

[Sammiejam]

Ok so if the perp put Caylee into the bag and was driving around with her in there for 2.6 days, then there would have been flies and maggots everywhere.

What if she sprayed into the bag and then sealed it with the duct-tape so they were trappped inside. Then perp then dumps the remains after GA freaks her out by trying to look in the trunk, and at some point, someone (the perp, or GA) vaccums the back of the car and sucks up all the dead insects that managed to escape before the perp closed the bag.

Some pestisides remain on a surface and continue to kill bugs that land on it. As the stain (the one GA saw) gets more rancid, another generation of flies begins. Some die because of the residue from the first spraying, others get into the trash bag with the pizza-box and dont die. The car is abandoned. LE now has those maggots and flies in the LAB.

Then, Caylees remains are found. Inside the rubbish bag with her are also the DEAD MAGGOTS AND FLIES and the faint odor of fly-spray. My question is, can they test the dead larvae and flies to get the EXACT chemical profile of the pesticide? They can certainly get a profile from the pestisides themselves, but can they match that to what is inside the dead insects?

It is also highly possible that there could be some dead larvae in any of the vaccums cleaners siezed from the residence, and perhaps they also have been killed with the same spray.

So now we have the larvae and flies from the in the remains, the ones from the vaccum bags and, the ones from the car.

VOILA, if they are all killed with the same spray - its a DIRECT LINK between remains and the house and the car...

Of course this is all riding on whether or not they can identify FROM THE DEAD INSECTS the exact chemical make-up of what killed them.

 

[natsound]

Is it possible that Casey tried using the pesticides to kill the flyes and maggots in the trunk or bag?

If she used the pesticide for this purpose after the body had already been disposed of, wouldn't it have worked to kill the flies/maggots?

 

[LaLaw2000]

"Wendy Murphy:

"Pesticides are commonly used to speed up decomposition and cover up odor"."

From Dawn Treader, post #4, on this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76327

A lot of us touched on this when we were saying the hibiscus bush needed to be dug up from the back yard as well as digging underneath the playhouse.

I would have bet money on my opinion that little Caylee would have been buried with love and care by George. I just had such a feeling that would be the case. I was very wrong, but I do not care! I am just glad little Caylee was found!

I still think George cleaned the car, tho.

 

[justbetweenus]

Still thinking here on the pesticide sprayers being taken. I wonder if when finding the remains they could tell pesticide was used on the body, from possible color change in hairs remaining (like turning green for example)

I also agree with the posters mentioning the frequent use of lime on lawns and gardens. I believe this was George's only purpose of using it.

Off to check BWI's link. Looks interesting.

 

[LLH]

Chloroform has also been used as a solvent, a heat. transfer medium in fire extinguishers, an intermediate in the preparation of dyes and pesticides, and ...

 

[loneleigh2]

Maybe while she was backed up into the garage she used the shop vac to vacuum up the trunk? They have that shop vac now...

Yeah I think that makes sense. I don't buy that her family was involved.

 

[LLH]

CA had the pontiac for several hours b4 she located KC. Items were removed from the trunk.. ie, a knife and KCs pants.Then washed. The "bag with pizza box and maggots" was tossed into the trash at the tow yard. GA "knew" that smell right then and there at the tow yard, as he admitted that he hoped it wasn't KC or Caylee.

To me , that suggests involvement in a cover up. Big time. Most people with "missing" family members would have called 911 right then and there. Most pesticides contain Cloroform.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Hey all, I posted this as part of another post also, but that was before I saw this thread...I think we're overlooking a much simpler reason for LE taking the pesticide. If KC did set the bag containing Caylee's remains in the yard briefly (likely, since the search dogs hit in the yard), If George had treated his yard with pesticide, which is very common, pesticide residue would have gotten on the bag. I think pesticides are made to be somewhat water resilient, so that you don't have to apply them every time it rains. So even if the bag was submerged, maybe some residue could still remain?
I think maybe LE is simply trying to tie the chemical composition of the residue on the bag with the pesticide George uses. Thoughts?

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Sorry - I posted before your post hit! I was not
speaking to your post. I agree with you that disposing of the body there really is stupid and not well planned. But think about her pathology...she steals when it seems pretty obvious to most rational people that she will be caught. Did she think Amy, her other friends, and her family wouldn't catch her stealing the money? No. She did it anyway because people like her don't care and don't think about consequences like normal people do.

This disposal was stupid...but honestly so was most of her lying. She really could have come up with much better lies in my opinion. She is someone who has always gotten away with everything with no consequences....so she probably figured this was no different. "Things would work out".

TxRose...if you are not a lawyer, you should be. These are great points for the prosecution to argue in their address to the jury.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

I think she went into a panic when her dad wanted to get into the trunk and she dumped her right after that incident. I agreed for once with LP tonight. I think the duck tape was to keep her quiet if she woke up a in the trunk. She is not even a human being. IMO

But...Caylee could have easily ripped the duct tape off herself if she wasn't being restrained in some other way.

 

[impatientredhead]

Hey all, I posted this as part of another post also, but that was before I saw this thread...I think we're overlooking a much simpler reason for LE taking the pesticide. If Caylee did set the bag containing Caylee's remains in the yard briefly (likely, since the search dogs hit in the yard), If George had treated his yard with pesticide, which is very common, pesticide residue would have gotten on the bag. I think pesticides are made to be somewhat water resilient, so that you don't have to apply them every time it rains. So even if the bag was submerged, maybe some residue could still remain?
I think maybe LE is simply trying to tie the chemical composition of the residue on the bag with the pesticide George uses. Thoughts?

Based on how much stuff they removed from the Anthony home post discovery I think they took everything they could think of that might show transference from the house to the crime scene. They may not know if it is hair, animal fur, dirt or sand from the backyard, chemicals or fabric fibers but they are going to find something that ties Casey to that disposal. My personal guess is that carpet fibers with the exact chemical match from her trunk will be found in the duct tape and she will be sunk. You can't claim Zanny had your car at the time she kidnapped and killed your kid in your home and disposed of the body near that home to frame you when you NEVER mentioned that she had your car. In fact you had the car and were at a job you don't have.

 

[butwhatif?]

LOL- Am I the only one that thinks its interesting that our odor analysis man Dr A vass, has noted the spraying of corpses to eliminate flies and maggots by perps in his research , and then we see the spray being removed from the A's house? The best man for the job was already on the case.How perfect!
I guess he's going to be a very busy man over the next few days.

One good thing that we can take from this is that caylee has not only touched our hearts but is helping scientists in state of the art research that will eventually help so many people.
Although she's gone, she's still helping to change the world. She was, and and still is a true gift to this world.

 

[Imajica]

But...Caylee could have easily ripped the duct tape off herself if she wasn't being restrained in some other way.

This is what I have been thinking since I heard Tape was possibly found on the skull. Even a two year old has the manual dexterity to remove a piece of duct tape from her own face. The only way, as you stated, that this wouldn't be possible was if she was physically restrained in some manner. It stands to reason that if you are going to go to the trouble of muffling someone's mouth, you are going to also prevent them from removing the tape. Which again brings us right back to wanton cruelty and premeditation.

One good thing that we can take from this is that caylee has not only touched our hearts but is helping scientists in state of the art research that will eventually help so many people. Although she's gone, she's still helping to change the world. She was, and and still is a true gift to this world.

What a beautiful sentiment, and such a long reaching and powerful legacy for Caylee to leave behind with the World. :blowkiss: