Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Emmi]

I have a question.

Lets say someone has an IQ of 122 and that would make them more intelligent than 93% of the population. Lets say they were well aware of that. Would that make them a narcissist?



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Is this a trick question? Why would just knowing you're smarter than most people make you a narcissist?

 

[Cate49]

I think I heard about a case similar to that- sorry I'm in the hospital with a Crohn's flare on pain meds so forgive me if I sound cloudy lol - but anyway I remember seeing on maybe Snapped or something where a woman married her shrink and ended up divorcing him then killing him. It was devastating because one of their teen sons was home at the time and she dragged the victim through the mud. Of course, the poor kids were torn and confused. It was heartbreaking- but borderline personality- which JA has been diagnosed with is not close to MPD- a closer thing would be schizophrenia. This is due to the hearing of voices and the "fracturing" of the mind. In fact many of the cases that were diagnosed MPD were indeed schizophrenia. I never finished my bachelors in psych, but I came close- a semester or two away and I have been in therapy for a while lol. Also, I'm just curious like anyone else.

That is exactly were I saw it on "snapped" sorry to hear your under in hospital
tiger. Indeed it was a sad story as mentioned above.

 

[Tiger09]

No because someone with a low IQ can have narcissistic personality. It deep down stems from feeling unloved and lesser than others. However, they also have unwarranted feelings of self-importance, demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behavior and need admiration. Lol that sounds like half of young Hollywood. Anyway, I can totally see this being an uneducated person.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Is this a trick question? Why would just knowing you're smarter than most people make you a narcissist?

I don't know.

Was asking because a close friend received that dx from a shrink in her custody battle. Imo she prsents as very confident, nothing more. Totally unrelated to this case, just wanted opinions. Thank you


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[Pane2knowyou]

I am new to the WS community. I do not know this case very well, but I have seen a good portion of interviews JA has given, as well as testimony given by a few people. My opinion is that JA has AsPD. In many cases AsPD goes hand in hand with narcissism.

I recently gave a presentation on PD, specifically AsPD. I am currently an undergrad student, but I already have a degree from the "school of hard knocks". My son has AsPD along with a myriad of other disorders. He has had issues since he was very young eventually being diagnosed with conduct disorder as a minor. He then "graduated" to full blown psychopathy as an adult. I would be interested in knowing more of JA's childhood.

On a side note, I am only on day 8 of the trial and have watched the network interviews she has given. Any recommendations on key days/testimony or should I just continue to watch the trial in its entirety? TIA...Btw, it is great to be here.

I'm new to the WS community as well. I've been watching the trial since it began and related videos. My background is incomplete in criminology. But my fascination remains. I do have experience with an individual, female, who I believed was AS. In considering what I've seen with JA, I've changed that to AsBPD. With JA though, I see her as AsBPD/NOS. I would like to know more about her childhood as well. If you have not seen the full videos of her parents during discussions with Detective Flores, that is a good place to start. Though I found them relatively guarded, there were some interesting expressions.

Briefly, from the father, this one showed me that the parents are united. He indicated that when JA would call, she would scream at "my wife." He didn't say, her mother. Has he dismissed her? If he had, I would have thought he would have been more forthcoming about his daughters behaviors from early on. If you're able to view the videos, I would be interested in your opinions from your standpoint.

Welcome to WS by the way!:seeya:

 

[Cate49]

I don't know.

Was asking because a close friend received that dx from a shrink in her custody battle. Imo she prsents as very confident, nothing more. Totally unrelated to this case, just wanted opinions. Thank you


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I get your drift Linda! The difference between being intelligent v.s narcist intelligence. Keep in mind I am humble, simple and moderately educated person. The traits that define for me the narcistic character. Include the need to belittle or disparage others in attempt to validate their own self worth. Grandiose thoughts and behavior as well. The most tell tell sign to me is most simplistic in nature. Lack of EMPATHY. If those of highest intelligence do not recognize the suffering of it's weakest members. Their exceeding abilities not used to protect, educate,
love, and care for the weakest of it's members is to me the trait that stands out most to me. Because even in the simplest of the race, the ability to feel the compassion for others suffering. Is this not the defining factor that is the Devine nature of all man kind. It is here that one choses the path that is afforded intelligence and crystalizes the difference between intelligence and the traits of narcism.

 

[Cate49]

A foot note to an earlier post that maybe of interest to some. That there is some evidence supporting more prevalent narcism seen in children in the western world. Based on the childhood narcism scale ( CNS) as a result of over praising. Which is a conundrum since on is supposed to instill praise to build confidence. This is were Cate's head gets sore and she defers this to the professionals that post.

 

[Linda7NJ]

A foot note to an earlier post that maybe of interest to some. That there is some evidence supporting more prevalent narcism seen in children in the western world. Based on the childhood narcism scale ( CNS) as a result of over praising. Which is a conundrum since on is supposed to instill praise to build confidence. This is were Cate's head gets sore and she defers this to the professionals that post.

I actually agree. It's fine to praise a child for their effort or actual successes.

This new trend at children's birthday party's where the birthday boy/girl can not open gifts in front of the givers because those in attendance feel left out is ridiculous.
Losing, trying and failing, and learning the reality of not being the best at everything is important to development. IMO
Winning, being gifted at something, earning it is important.

That's the mistake of the "everyone gets a trophy" ... Children never learn the important life lessons they need in adult life.


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[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes, indeed Linda.

There was a Principal recently that gave a graduation speech bent on taking away "unearned trophies"........his speech was entitled "You're Not That Special".

It was well received.

 

[Cate49]

No because someone with a low IQ can have narcissistic personality. It deep down stems from feeling unloved and lesser than others. However, they also have unwarranted feelings of self-importance, demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behavior and need admiration. Lol that sounds like half of young Hollywood. Anyway, I can totally see this being an uneducated person.

Point well taken you still sharp despite your ills

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, indeed Linda.

There was a Principal recently that gave a graduation speech bent on taking away "unearned trophies"........his speech was entitled "You're Not That Special".

It was well received.

I love him!


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[Tiger09]

Point well taken you still sharp despite your ills

Thanks a bunch! I also agree with the award stuff posted above earlier. My half-sister and I are 11 years apart and there's a total difference in how society is and just how things are. She's grown up basically being told she's a special flower and can say and do anything and get away with it. She tried junior college and had to quit because the work was too hard. All she wanted to do was paint, complain about class work, and play on her phone. We are total opposites. She thinks she can baby sit people's kids for the rest of her life. She also refuses to learn how to drive because everyone drives her around. This is what always telling your kids they are special no matter what and giving unearned praise gets because the girl has potential and a good heart- but no motivation.

 

[Arabian Girl]

Yes, indeed Linda.

There was a Principal recently that gave a graduation speech bent on taking away "unearned trophies"........his speech was entitled "You're Not That Special".

It was well received.

That sure sounds 'off'. It's one thing to not give someone something they didn't earn and take something back after making the mistake.

Hmmm...no wonder kids can't figure out what messages adults are trying to send.

:twocents::twocents:

 

[Cate49]

It seems Jodi is in prison hospital on suicide watch. The lawyers angry about post verdict interview. The references to the Travis feelings family about their selective memory. This chick is a piece of work. The longer we see her the more obvious her short givings. She manipulates and I hope the prison stops allowing the "Jodi Show". Take her back to her cell and stop letting her drag her feet with the judicial process. The types of behavior she exhibits reflects het over lapping disorders. She is completely well enough to be punished accordingly. " you can mark my words on that".

 

[shelley921]

A foot note to an earlier post that maybe of interest to some. That there is some evidence supporting more prevalent narcism seen in children in the western world. Based on the childhood narcism scale ( CNS) as a result of over praising. Which is a conundrum since on is supposed to instill praise to build confidence. This is were Cate's head gets sore and she defers this to the professionals that post.

I'm not a parent - I'm a teacher but if I were a parent I would
want my kids to approach the challenges of life with confidence in their abilities.

I love what child behavior expert John Rosemond has to say about this:

"Researchers have indeed found that high self-esteem doesn’t live up to its hype. In fact, it’s not a desirable characteristic at all. The general finding has been that people with high regard for themselves have equally low regard for others. Yes, they feel really good about themselves (the sales pitch), but they tend to be seriously lacking in sensitivity to anyone else.
The desirable attribute is humility. That was known thousands of years ago, proving once again that there is nothing new under the sun. Humble people pay attention to others, look for opportunities to serve, and are modest when it comes to their accomplishments. People with high self-esteem want attention, expect others to do things for them, and tend to crow about their achievements.
Where confidence is concerned, there is no evidence to suggest that humble and confident are incompatible. By all accounts, George Washington was a very humble man who was more than a tad uncomfortable in the spotlight he’d been thrust into. Yet without the unwavering confidence he brought to his mission, the United States of America might not exist.
Researchers have discovered that people with high self-esteem tend to overestimate their abilities. If anything, they are over-confident. As a result, they don’t cope well when life deals them a bad hand or their performance doesn’t live up to their self-expectations. For those reasons, they are highly prone to depression. Because they believe anything they do is deserving of reward, they also tend to underperform. Ironic, since high self-esteem was promoted as the key to happiness and academic success.
As has been known for millennia, the key to a sense of personal satisfaction (not the same as happiness, by the way) and the feeling that one has made and is making an important contribution (not the same as the contemporary concept of success, by the way) is hard work and a solid platform of good values—the centerpiece of which is high regard for others. Note that the primary beneficiary in that equation is one’s fellow traveler, not oneself. In short, the key to the good life is putting others first. Call that the Good Neighbor Principle.
Society is strengthened and culture is moved forward by the efforts of people who think of others before they think of themselves, not by people who think they are the cat’s meow. In that regard, one of the most foreboding things about contemporary American culture is that today’s young people regard the narcissistic, self-promoting celebrity as more of a role model than George Washington or Abraham Lincoln.
That, in fact, may be our ultimate undoing..."

 

[Cate49]

Shelley your post with the message was beautiful. It says what I have rambled and stumbled for in words. The most important of jobs are the least paid and most difficult. I commend any life work that serves their community, country, world. It is the call of service to others in humility that keeps the humanity of our race. We need to remember this and strive for this always. Instilling it in the youth the desire to make the world a better place for the whole not the self.
"we all got to serve somebody" Bob Dylan

 

[Cate49]

We should look at starting a new armchair thread. Personally, I feel Jodi has begotten more attention she deserves. Justice has been served for TRAVIS. Let here sit in prison with what ever it is that makes her click. We can focus outwards to other suffering. Like the women trapped for years in captivity. How can the world serve them to prevent and treats that suffering? We all know that I have no idea how we can regroup on another thread.

 

[shelley921]

Shelley your post with the message was beautiful. It says what I have rambled and stumbled for in words. The most important of jobs are the least paid and most difficult. I commend any life work that serves their community, country, world. It is the call of service to others in humility that keeps the humanity of our race. We need to remember this and strive for this always. Instilling it in the youth the desire to make the world a better place for the whole not the self.
"we all got to serve somebody" Bob Dylan

thanks cate - I love what Rosemond says - that humble and confident are NOT incompatible...and that high regard for others is essential.

 

[shelley921]

We should look at starting a new armchair thread. Personally, I feel Jodi has begotten more attention she deserves. Justice has been served for TRAVIS. Let here sit in prison with what ever it is that makes her click. We can focus outwards to other suffering. Like the women trapped for years in captivity. How can the world serve them to prevent and treats that suffering? We all know that I have no idea how we can regroup on another thread.

agree with this - we need a new thread to discuss those poor women who were kidnapped and trapped by that dreadful monster for 10 years. i private messaged 2 moderators asking for the armchair psychologists for jodi arias to be put back up. one never answered me and the other one answered me that she'd look into it but said he had an emergency at home to deal with. so perhaps if you have time, private message a moderator and ask that a thread such as you are describing be created-? i have to leave for medical appts now and will be gone all day. but if you let me know which mod you message-if you do so--i can so the same thing tomorrow. maybe if several of us ask, they will make a thread for us. i'm tired of jodi myself.
thanks

 

[Gecko100]

I am currently reading a book about the 'narcissistic' creation in culture. It is described as an epidemic. I have read other theorist who suggest that saying 'that's a good effort' rather than unadulterated praise:seeya:

I'm not a parent - I'm a teacher but if I were a parent I would
want my kids to approach the challenges of life with confidence in their abilities.

I love what child behavior expert John Rosemond has to say about this:

"Researchers have indeed found that high self-esteem doesn’t live up to its hype. In fact, it’s not a desirable characteristic at all. The general finding has been that people with high regard for themselves have equally low regard for others. Yes, they feel really good about themselves (the sales pitch), but they tend to be seriously lacking in sensitivity to anyone else.
The desirable attribute is humility. That was known thousands of years ago, proving once again that there is nothing new under the sun. Humble people pay attention to others, look for opportunities to serve, and are modest when it comes to their accomplishments. People with high self-esteem want attention, expect others to do things for them, and tend to crow about their achievements.
Where confidence is concerned, there is no evidence to suggest that humble and confident are incompatible. By all accounts, George Washington was a very humble man who was more than a tad uncomfortable in the spotlight he’d been thrust into. Yet without the unwavering confidence he brought to his mission, the United States of America might not exist.
Researchers have discovered that people with high self-esteem tend to overestimate their abilities. If anything, they are over-confident. As a result, they don’t cope well when life deals them a bad hand or their performance doesn’t live up to their self-expectations. For those reasons, they are highly prone to depression. Because they believe anything they do is deserving of reward, they also tend to underperform. Ironic, since high self-esteem was promoted as the key to happiness and academic success.
As has been known for millennia, the key to a sense of personal satisfaction (not the same as happiness, by the way) and the feeling that one has made and is making an important contribution (not the same as the contemporary concept of success, by the way) is hard work and a solid platform of good values—the centerpiece of which is high regard for others. Note that the primary beneficiary in that equation is one’s fellow traveler, not oneself. In short, the key to the good life is putting others first. Call that the Good Neighbor Principle.
Society is strengthened and culture is moved forward by the efforts of people who think of others before they think of themselves, not by people who think they are the cat’s meow. In that regard, one of the most foreboding things about contemporary American culture is that today’s young people regard the narcissistic, self-promoting celebrity as more of a role model than George Washington or Abraham Lincoln.
That, in fact, may be our ultimate undoing..."