Poll: your thoughts on the id

[anastacia129]

It looks to me like they had a tentative ID within a few hours, based on the skull and teeth, cause of death at about 24 hours, had the initial DNA done late yesterday and will probably not announce until about afternoon on the 18th. If not, they are obviously holding back just to put the defense team in what they believe to be their "proper place". I think it's cruel for them to withhold this way. And from what I understand, other states allow observation by the experts from the other side, even work together. If they didn't I believe they should. They told the media they had a tentative ID then told the judge they didn't. But no one seems to have a problem with that. I watched one of the videos a few days ago of the sifting of dirt and the one woman was chatting away, smiling, looking at her co-worker as she pushed the dirt around on the screen. The defense has a right to make sure they are paying attention to what they are doing so they don't miss anything.

bold mine

I would bet that LE could give 2 @#$s less if the defense team thinks they are just being "spiteful". Seriously, this is not high school, they are doing their job. Unfortunately Baez is too inexperienced to know what is happening is completely normal in the process of investigations.

Far as the person smiling and not doing their job, I bet she probably did miss that confession note from Zanny

Casey knows what they are going to find there, Baez should just ask her.

 

[slinkyy]

Whoops! I clicked the wrong button and voted that I know its not Caylee. I really do think its Caylee. Must be a blonde moment :bang:

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

:waitasec:
:hand:
Defense does not have a right to "make sure they are paying attention to what they are doing so they don't miss anything." Defense does not have a right to supervise or manage the government employees, out in the field or anywhere else. Sorry. That would be chaos.:crazy:

I didn't say supervise. They have the need, as a good defense team to know that proper procedures have been followed, not second hand knowledge after the fact when it is too late. No one seems to have any problem with Tim having been taken inside. I don't either. But he has no need to be at the crime scene during processing to observe, whereas the defense does have a valid need. If you put aside any preconceived ideas of guilt or innocence you might think the same. If you were the accused wouldn't you want your attorney's experts to have the access they are asking for?

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

Their personal opinion and gut feeling might be that it is Caylee. But since they would have to say how they came by that tentative ID of the remains and they can use their personal opinion or gut feeling, they can't use it in court. They can't say it to the judge. Which was the problem on the first day. EVERYONE realized it was Caylee. But they were still gathering stuff to make the legal tentative ID. The judge doesn't have a problem with it, cause he understands the situation and the level of exception of what is said in court.

Because she smiled, she might have missed something? Your kidding right? I dont' mean to be mean, but please think about what your saying.

There are alot of jobs in the world that are unpleasant. Folks that see things you wouldn't want to see or even know about. But in the end, those folks are just like everyone else. They have had to learn it's "a job." To not let 'the job' suck the life out of themselves.

Unless your are willing to hold yourself in the same standard at your job (no matter what that might be) don't be casting stones at others.

We are all human and doing the best we can, under the situations we have to deal with.

Her smiling wasn't the issue. If you reread, you'll see I was just stating the facts I observed, the most important of which was her eyes were not on her job, they were on the person she was talking to as she sifted. That is important. Yes, to the best of my ability, I hold myself to those standards. If my eyes are important for quality, they are fixed. I don't watch my hands while I type, but I watch what is important, the result on the screen. So, please don't trow stones at me. I've done nothing to deserve that.

 

[suspicious mind]

I didn't say supervise. They have the need, as a good defense team to know that proper procedures have been followed, not second hand knowledge after the fact when it is too late. No one seems to have any problem with Tim having been taken inside. I don't either. But he has no need to be at the crime scene during processing to observe, whereas the defense does have a valid need. If you put aside any preconceived ideas of guilt or innocence you might think the same. If you were the accused wouldn't you want your attorney's experts to have the access they are asking for?

I think it is a rumor Tim was taken inside.

I wonder what the defense is afraid will happen if they are not watching. Im certain the experts will poke holes in whatever LE finds either way.

If you put aside any preconceived ideas that LE is trying to plant or alter evidence you might not feel the defense has a place in the field, observing.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

If they really want answers, all they have to do is have a nice little chit chat with Casey. She has enough answers to go around for EVERYONE.

Oh, and why don't you cite a SINGLE case where defense experts were allowed in during the police investigation? This simply doesn't happen no matter how much anyone wants to scream from the rooftops that it does.

I'll give you, other states do (not saying all do, but I know some do) allow defense experts at the autopsy at times, but that's not so in the state of Florida, WHERE THEY ARE! You don't like a state's laws, get the hell out. Don't enter the state and try to dictate what you should be allowed to do. Remember the Terri Schiavo case? How many people wanted someone (I believe it was Cyril Wecht, but don't take it to the bank) to attend that autopsy? Yet, the courts said, NO! It's Florida, it's their law, deal with it (not you, talking about the defense).

EDIT: And I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard someone stating the other day that they do not have dental records for Caylee.

From what I understood from the one "expert" interviewed, all they need is a recent photo of Caylee smiling in order to compare teeth. I would assume the measurements of the eye line, etc, can be taken to compare to the skull. The placement of the eyes on the head tell how old the child is pretty close. They likely could have the height right away too. These things are what I'm seeing likely completed in the first few hours.

 

[suspicious mind]

Her smiling wasn't the issue. If you reread, you'll see I was just stating the facts I observed, the most important of which was her eyes were not on her job, they were on the person she was talking to as she sifted. That is important. Yes, to the best of my ability, I hold myself to those standards. If my eyes are important for quality, they are fixed. I don't watch my hands while I type, but I watch what is important, the result on the screen. So, please don't trow stones at me. I've done nothing to deserve that.

Im sorry , I couldn't resist. How do you know what her job is, enough to know she was not doing it precisely? Are you in the forensics field?

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

I think it is a rumor Tim was taken inside.

I wonder what the defense is afraid will happen if they are not watching. Im certain the experts will poke holes in whatever LE finds either way.

If you put aside any preconceived ideas that LE is trying to plant or alter evidence you might not feel the defense has a place in the field, observing.

If this is the case, then Tim started the rumor. I heard him say so in a lengthy interview. He also said they had grown quite close and they hugged, sharing their sorrow. He said he say where the bag lay, the dented ground and lack of plant life growing in that spot.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

Im sorry , I couldn't resist. How do you know what her job is, enough to know she was not doing it precisely? Are you in the forensics field?

Isn't it common sense? If you are sifting the soil looking for bones, and each tiny bit of evidence you need to see, not just feel. A small piece of fabric or tissue would feel the same through a pair of rubber gloves as a leaf. A bone the same as a twig. They sift, pick up the twigs, stones and leaves, set them aside, keep sifting. I've sifted soil. So I at least have that much practical knowledge.

And, I would ask you the same. If you were the accused would you want this? I'm sure these people are good at what they do. But anyone can overlook and more so if they want the case closed easily, with the perp of choice in custody. And don't tell me know one goes to prison that is innocent. It happens all the time, too much, Florida included.

 

[nursebeeme]

It is working pro bono

it is working it's a$$ off lol (sh(ee)t by sh(ee)t)

 

[nursebeeme]

Isn't it common sense? If you are sifting the soil looking for bones, and each tiny bit of evidence you need to see, not just feel. A small piece of fabric or tissue would feel the same through a pair of rubber gloves as a leaf. A bone the same as a twig. They sift, pick up the twigs, stones and leaves, set them aside, keep sifting. I've sifted soil. So I at least have that much practical knowledge.

And, I would ask you the same. If you were the accused would you want this? I'm sure these people are good at what they do. But anyone can overlook and more so if they want the case closed easily, with the perp of choice in custody. And don't tell me know one goes to prison that is innocent. It happens all the time, too much, Florida included.

I am so sure le is overdoing this (fbi, fle, and all other orgs involved included) that I will throw in the super sunay at friendly's! Sifting~schmifting. They are gettin er done!

 

[nursebeeme]

From what I understood from the one "expert" interviewed, all they need is a recent photo of Caylee smiling in order to compare teeth. I would assume the measurements of the eye line, etc, can be taken to compare to the skull. The placement of the eyes on the head tell how old the child is pretty close. They likely could have the height right away too. These things are what I'm seeing likely completed in the first few hours.

bold is mine. I do not know about that photo practice. I do have something to add... on tru tv today they interviewed the atty for ME and he said they sent a TOOTH, a hair, and a three inch piece of bone to the fbi. If they had a full skull of teeth either they had them all and photographed them in situ or they just had a few at the time of the mailing and opted on sending one of those they had for id purposes. moo

 

[suspicious mind]

Isn't it common sense? If you are sifting the soil looking for bones, and each tiny bit of evidence you need to see, not just feel. A small piece of fabric or tissue would feel the same through a pair of rubber gloves as a leaf. A bone the same as a twig. They sift, pick up the twigs, stones and leaves, set them aside, keep sifting. I've sifted soil. So I at least have that much practical knowledge.

And, I would ask you the same. If you were the accused would you want this? I'm sure these people are good at what they do. But anyone can overlook and more so if they want the case closed easily, with the perp of choice in custody. And don't tell me know one goes to prison that is innocent. It happens all the time, too much, Florida included.

If you feel that strongly about it , perhaps you should contact her boss and find out exactly what this person's job is and if she were in fact looking for bones? Maybe that is common sense, to have all the information before you accuse someone of doing something wrong.

On the flip side, maybe she missed the "smoking gun", the one thing that would have left no room for reasonable doubt. Wouldn't that be great for kc??

 

[nursebeeme]

If you feel that strongly about it , perhaps you should contact her boss and find out exactly what this person's job is and if she were in fact looking for bones? Maybe that is common sense, to have all the information before you accuse someone of doing something wrong.

On the flip side, maybe she missed the "smoking gun", the one thing that would have left no room for reasonable doubt. Wouldn't that be great for kc??

amen! I am a critical care nurse...and if you were to judge my care by a six second video clip...well....(don't know what to say).

At the least, six second clips are not indicative of the professionalism of any person in any job anywhere. In my opinion.

 

[ThoughtElf]

it is working it's a$$ off lol (sh(ee)t by sh(ee)t)

And for FREE! Could I be laughing harder? I don't think so...

 

[NancyT]

I didn't say supervise. They have the need, as a good defense team to know that proper procedures have been followed, not second hand knowledge after the fact when it is too late. No one seems to have any problem with Tim having been taken inside. I don't either. But he has no need to be at the crime scene during processing to observe, whereas the defense does have a valid need. If you put aside any preconceived ideas of guilt or innocence you might think the same. If you were the accused wouldn't you want your attorney's experts to have the access they are asking for?

In most instances, this is all done routinely BEFORE anyone is even charged with a murder. Yet, somehow, they all manage a defense just fine. The defense has NO right to be there while LE conducts this investigations. That's a fact and that's the bottom line. Do you think Judge S doesn't know the law? Are you suggesting you know more than he does? They are mandated to document everything, and everything has a proper chain of custody and protocol that must be followed to a tee (not that Dr Henry Lee would know anything about this), and that is what the defense is entitled to on down the road via discovery. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[NancyT]

From what I understood from the one "expert" interviewed, all they need is a recent photo of Caylee smiling in order to compare teeth. I would assume the measurements of the eye line, etc, can be taken to compare to the skull. The placement of the eyes on the head tell how old the child is pretty close. They likely could have the height right away too. These things are what I'm seeing likely completed in the first few hours.

I'll grant you they have a lot of information available that could lead authorities to believe this is Caylee (things you mentioned as well as many other things I could point out), but you need to remember, this isn't a guessing game and today's standard is definitive results obtained via DNA when possibile. You cannot go into a court of law based on a guessing game.

I think LE has already gone on the record as saying they believe this is Caylee, but they will wait for conclusive results before stating it as factual. That's LE being professionals at their jobs. I mean no disrespect and you're certainly entitled to think anything you'd wish, but that's the threshold LE must adhere to, not your guessing game.

 

[Macushla]

Her smiling wasn't the issue. If you reread, you'll see I was just stating the facts I observed, the most important of which was her eyes were not on her job, they were on the person she was talking to as she sifted. That is important. Yes, to the best of my ability, I hold myself to those standards. If my eyes are important for quality, they are fixed. I don't watch my hands while I type, but I watch what is important, the result on the screen. So, please don't trow stones at me. I've done nothing to deserve that.

She also was watching what was important - anything left on the 'screen' she was sifting the dirt through. She may have looked at someone, chatted, etc, but when she looked back - any bone fragment was sitting on the screen, only the dirt had gone through. I have watched anthropologists and crime scene people do this kind of work. What they are looking for stays on the 'screen' while the dust, sand, dirt, etc. falls through onto the ground. Check around on the internet for any video of someone on a 'dig' doing this kind of work and you will see what I mean. the sifting 'screen' (and I know that isn't the correct word, I just can't think of it right now) is designed to let the dirt/sand fall through but catch even the smallest of bone fragments or pottery shards, etc. In fact a lot of the time, they use a set of screens with smaller and smaller 'holes' to make sure they don't miss anything. Sorry, if this sounded like a lecture, but I did want you to know that glancing away for a minute or two, in this instance, would not lead to lost evidence.

 

[NancyT]

If this is the case, then Tim started the rumor. I heard him say so in a lengthy interview. He also said they had grown quite close and they hugged, sharing their sorrow. He said he say where the bag lay, the dented ground and lack of plant life growing in that spot.

I don't believe Tim ever said he went into the tented areas. While it's only my guess, I think he was showed the area, but not taken directly to the actual spot where the remains were found.

I could be wrong and have been before, but I won't point fingers when I don't have the entire story.

These investigators are being methodical and leaving nothing to chance. I don't think they'd do anything to compromise this investigation. If they do however, the defense can tackle that in a court of law and it can only be a win for Casey (at least that particular point will be a win for the defense, perhaps not the entire case - though that could happen too). That's why I don't think they'll allow that to happen.

The burden is on the state, not the defense.

 

[laurieann]

Hey! That's the good stuff, not a cheapy brand. Wonder whose paying for it?

You mean it's not a Sh***y brand??????