Possible Connections

[zensiert]

I am just stunned by the similarities, proximity and the timing of this case...

According to the list of persons who will give testimony in the trial of LLW2, there is a woman named G. D. She says she was assaulted in August 30, 1974 in St. Cloud Minnesota at knifepoint by LLW2, before she was able to break free and run away from him.

So we know LLW2 was in St. Cloud MN on August 30, 1974, and he had a knife.

Three days later on Monday / Labor Day, September, 2, 1974, two SISTERS Mary and Susanne Reker, ages 15 and 12 left their house around 11:15am and walked about a mile from their house to a local shopping center Zayre's store to go shopping for school supplies. They supposedly were seen talking to a creepy male, and the younger sister was overheard saying to the older sister, "I don't want to go with that man, I don't like him, let's not."

Around 6pm when they had not returned home, their parents went to the police. 26 days later their bodies were found stabbed in an abandoned quarry. Mary's clothing had been cut up into pieces.

I'm having a hard time thinking this is all just a coincidence that LLW2 happened to be in St. Cloud, Minnesota, with a knife at the same time two young sisters disappeared after walking from their home to a shopping center.

 

[sub]

I went to school in media from 1974-1979 and remember a situation in about 1978 or 1979. I was 9 or 10. I had to stay after school for a performance later and for some reason my mother allowed me to go get dinner by myself in the cute town of Media. Media is the county seat and was pretty safe at the time. I walked downtown from school (a couple of blocks) got a scotties sub, visited the costume store, and headed back towards school.

About a block away a man pulled his car up next to me. He called out to me and asked me where I was going. I said I was going back to school. He asked me a couple of more questions and at some point he told me he would give me a ride. At this point I became afraid and RAN down the street towards my school, stopping at the corner to make sure it was safe to cross. He pulled up next to me again and asked me why I "took off like that". I was very scared at this point but from this corner I could actually see my school and I mumbled something about how I was back at school now, ran across the street and into the very safe feeling lobby of my wonderful little school.

I have some recollection of this mans car and what he looked like. I wonder if this person is related to Wendy Eatons disappearance. Its a small town, you know?

This is eerily similar what happened to me in northern New Jersey in 1974 when a man asked me directions while I was on the way to school, followed me to stranger's house where I'd told him I lived, and then circled the block multiple times while I hid in bushes. He was angry and shouted that he knew I was there.

 

[Schipperke]

Amazing the things we do as children out of fear, not knowing what to do, thinking we will be accused of doing something to cause it, or being afraid we will not be believed if we tell. I have a similar story from the mid 60's as a teen in Maryland and again in the early 70's as a young adult in Maryland. There were a lot of missing young girls/ladies in those years up and down the eastern seaboard states. I wonder how many events went unreported?

 

[dogmatixx]

Looking at Maryland State Police cold cases, I recently found the case of 14 y/o Paul J. Lentz, who was last seen alive (according to a period newspaper article from the Frederick newspaper, The News) leaving his home in Rockville on June 18, 1975, on his way to a "nearby bowling center". Does anyone remember what bowling alleys were closest to the area where he lived (on Duke Street, Rockville, according to the article), which I assume from the address number was actually South Duke Street? It's about 3/4 mile west of 355 in a neighborhood just south of Gude Drive (I don't remember Gude Drive existing west of 355 in 1975). His badly decomposed body was found 6 days after his disappearance, west of Urbana (in Frederick County) in a ditch near the intersection of Park Mills Road and Md. 80. He had been stabbed, and a hunting knife was found near the body.

I grew up next door to the Lentz family. I was four years old when he was murdered. I actually haven't thought about Paul Lentz in probably 20 years, but tonight I thought about him and figured I might be able to find something about him on the internet, since the information I know is barely-remembered details from my mom, who was friends with Paul's mom. She was actually one of the last people to see him alive. She saw him walking on the street a few blocks from him house, presumably on the way to go bowling. I always got the impression from my mom that they assumed he was picked up while walking on the street somewhere. Of course, I don't remember him personally, but all of the kids in the neighborhood knew about what happened to him. I hadn't realized that it was a cold case.

What's amazing to me now is that, despite the fact that a kid from our street was MURDERED by persons unknown, it didn't seem to affect our parents' willingness to allow us all to roam freely from a young age with no supervision and no contact with home for hours at a time. It really drives home the fact that kids today live in a much safer world but are nevertheless much more restricted about what they can do unsupervised. We got the "dont' get into cars with strangers, or you'll end up like poor Paul Lentz" talk, but that was about it, at least as far as I could tell as a kid.

 

[Fukiyama]

Interesting story. Welcome.

 

[Gruffin]

What's amazing to me now is that, despite the fact that a kid from our street was MURDERED by persons unknown, it didn't seem to affect our parents' willingness to allow us all to roam freely from a young age with no supervision and no contact with home for hours at a time. It really drives home the fact that kids today live in a much safer world but are nevertheless much more restricted about what they can do unsupervised. We got the "dont' get into cars with strangers, or you'll end up like poor Paul Lentz" talk, but that was about it, at least as far as I could tell as a kid.

Kids are less likely to be abducted or murdered nowadays, but then there are a lot less kids "out there" unattended walking to or from the school bus stop or mall or bowling alley, etc. The fewer the vulnerable kids, the more likely any particular vulnerable kid is to be chosen as a victim. The Lyon Sisters' disappearance got much media attention, prompting many parents to be more restrictive with their kids and making kids think twice before putting themselves at risk. As I see it, this sort of thing caused a positive feedback loop, causing parents to become even more restrictive the more they emulated their peers and the more they sensed there weren't as many easy targets for child snatchers/murderers as there used to be. You don't hear parents saying that they don't mind giving their children freedom because it is a step to claim the neighborhood for kids, thereby making other free children safer, but that is a reasonable consideration for unselfish parents to make.

The publicity surrounding the Kathy Beatty and Paul Lentz murders was dwarfed by that given to the Lyon sisters. I lived in the general area of those murders at the time, and was of an age between that of you and Paul Lentz, and I had never heard of either of those murders until I started reading the Websleuths forum on the Lyon Sisters, whereas I presume almost everyone in our neighborhood knew about the Lyon Sisters' disappearance.

I think part of the obscurity of the Lentz murder stems from his body having been dumped in Frederick County while he was last seen alive in Montgomery County. Somehow it ended up a Maryland State Police case, apparently (as opposed to Montgomery County Police or Frederick County Police). Perhaps the reporters from the Washington Post didn't have the same everyday familiarity with people from Maryland State Police that they might have had with Montgomery County Police.

Do you know any particulars about the Lentz case that you wish to share? In particular, I'm curious what bowling alley he likely was going to and how he was to get there. Was he going to walk the whole way? take a bus? hitchhike? In a way the basic details of name, age, location, and time are especially important for amateur sleuths, because such is basically what ordinary people almost always have access to as much as law enforcement, and so looking for patterns in these details gives us something we can do about as well as law enforcement. Lacking the basic knowledge of the location of the bowling alley where Lentz was going makes for difficulty. It's also sad there's no publicly available photograph of him. After a while, in chasing a murderer, one gets a feel from photographs what kind of victim the murderer prefers.

 

[Peskymosquito]

So LLW2 says, "Yes, I led them out of the shopping center, but I didn't kill them." End of story? Why? How do we know that the Lyon family and the Welch family do not know each other? There was information posted here on WS showing that there were Welch family members living very close to the Lyon house. Why is the investigation ending without answers? Where is LLW2 incarcerated now? In Bedford? Or was he returned to finish his sentence in Delaware? Is he even still in prison? Did they ever get to Taylor's Mountain? Were they in the station wagon? If lloyd wasn't driving, who was? Remember, we now know that Lloyd was involved in other cases near where the station wagon reports were filed. Where was the prosecution's head when this case was being handled? Excuse-- the family wanted it to end? Since when does a family desire trump justice? Just hard to believe that a family would give up without the answers, and another why tacks to the end of that. Not a thing to be proud of here! Only unquelled fear for the children who lived though the nightmare of day that turned into decades, and resulted in a self-confessed participant still holding all the keys.

 

[Richard]

Which of the many cases discussed over the years in this thread might have been connected to the abduction of the Lyon sisters - in light of more current revelations regarding Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. and possible associates?

 

[Fukiyama]

Which of the many cases discussed over the years in this thread might have been connected to the abduction of the Lyon sisters - in light of more current revelations regarding Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. and possible associates?

Honestly, my gut feeling is that LLWJr. and his family are not linked to any of the cases discussed here based on the info that has been gleaned since LE first identified him. I certainly don't claim to be versed on all the family dynamics that have been unearthed and where and when LLWJr. or his elders were and when, but I tend to avoid the "let's make a connection" game unless there is more to go on than just "Oh, he could have done it maybe."

One case I would say I am pretty sure about is Kathy Lynn Beatty: while I've always thought Coffey made a good suspect due to his leaving town right away, I've also always wanted to see Kathy's fellow students reinterviewed now that they're adults if they haven't been already.

 

[Richard]

IF the Lyon sisters were abducted by a group (and there is no doubt in my mind that Lloyd Welch did not act alone), then there would be other cases both before and after 25 March 1975.

Lloyd Welch DID commit other crimes, as noted in his record, but those were the ones he was convicted of. How many others were there, and how many resulted in victims now missing or known to be murdered?

Certainly not all of the cases discussed here involved Welch or his associates, but some may very well be their work. The case of Eileen Kelly (December 1974) is one which I think has many similarities and parallels.

Although not much has been mentioned by police or press recently, regarding potential accomplices or conspirators, looking into possible links with Raymond Mileski and his known associates might prove fruitful. Again, there are many coincidental parallels between the Mileski story and what LE has put forth as gospel regarding Lloyd Welch.

 

[Richard]

A factor to be considered in Kathy Lynn Beatty's murder is the utter brutality with which the attack on her was carried out. This was not a case of her accidentally falling off a bicycle, or being shoved or hit by other children.

The person who killed her was well versed and practiced in abducting children, inflicting pain, and wontonaly killing them. He had done this sort of thing before and afterward.

It is very likely that the attacker had a vehicle which was used in the abduction, assault, and transportation of his victim.

She was left for dead in a trash strewn area where her body would fairly quickly be found. I am certain he believed that he had killed her. He did not care about her or her family at all - a true psychopath.

In considering potential suspects, one has to look for persons whose crimes fit the MO in this case. Age and sex of the victim, remote locations, methods, actions before and after, etc.

I have always considered Fred Howard Coffey, Jr. to be a close match in all ways.

A major difference between Kathy's murder and the Lyon case is that their bodies have never been found.

 

[Richard]

This unsolved murder occurred only three months prior to the disappearance of the Lyon Sisters. Could there be a connection?


------------------------------------------------


Eileen Kelly, 18, Unsolved Murder December 1974, Washington DC

Eileen Kelly, 18 years old, disappeared on 14 December 1974. Nine days later, on 22 December 1974, her body was found in the 17 block of R Street Northeast, Washington DC.

The Coroner stated that she had been dead between 24 and 36 hours when she was found. This would mean that someone had held her captive for several days prior to her murder.

Eileen's killer has never been identified and the case is unsolved. The case is under investigation by the Metropolitan Police.

If you have any information concerning this case, please call:

Detective James Trainum 202-727-5037

Or the Metropolitan Police Operations Center at 202-727-9099

Or e-mail them at: unsolved.murder@dc.gov

Source: District of Columbia: Metropolitan Police Department

LINK:

http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/frames.asp?d...pdf&group=1533



LINK to Websleuths Cold Case discussion on this case...


Eileen Kelly, 18, Unsolved Murder December 1974, Washington DC - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

It is now exactly 44 years since the Abduction and subsequent murder of Eileen Kelly.

Her case was first mentioned in this thread back in 2010 as being possibly connected to the disappearance of the Lyon sisters. At that time, the only possible connection was that she went missing 3 months before the Lyon girls did, and in the same general vicinity.

In the past four years, Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. has been accused and convicted of abducting and murdering the Lyon sisters. Many of the elements of the story leaked out by LE seem to bear a strong connection to the fate of Eileen Kelly. Could the two cases actually be linked?

 

[Richard]

There have been quite a number of cases discussed in this thread over the years as possibly being related to the missing Lyon sisters.

In light of recent information regarding Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. and his possible connections to a group which kidnapped and trafficked with children, I would suggest the following cases be examined for possible connections and similarities.

These cases are from adjacent states and within a two year time span around the disappearance of the Lyon sisters.

Brenda Sue Davidson Missing March 4, 1974 from Woodbridge, Prince William County, Virginia Age: 13
LINK: 3634DFVA - Brenda Sue Davidson

Eileen Kelly, Missing between Washington DC and Hyattsville, MD 14 December 1974, found murdered 9 days later. Age 18
LINK:
DC - DC - Eileen Kelly, 18, Washington DC, 14 Dec 1974

Steven Anderson, 17, & David Williams, 12, missing 7 April 1975 from New Lisbon, NJ.
LINK: NJ - NJ - Steven Anderson, 17, & David Williams, 12, New Lisbon, 7 April 1975

Wendy Eaton Missing May 17, 1975 from Media, Delaware County, PA, age 15.
LINK: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/90dfpa.html

Edna Christine Thorne, Missing June 24, 1975 from Philadelphia, Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania, age 15.
LINK: The Doe Network: Case File 74DFPA

Tracy Anne King, Missing July 8, 1975 from Littlestown, Adams County, Pennsylvania, age 14.
LINK: The Doe Network: Case File 342DFPA

Teresa Lynn Rhodes Missing September 27, 1975 from Greensburg, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania, age 13.
LINK: The Doe Network: Case File 2610DFPA

Karen Beth Kamsch Missing June 01, 1976 from Pasadena, Anne Arundel County, Maryland Age: 14
LINK: CASE NUMBER - Karen Beth Kamsch

 

[Richard]

Quote from Skipper (December 2010): "I was one of their victims."

When the Lyon Sisters featured case first appeared on Websleuths, this thread, titled "Possible Connections" was started by a poster called Skipper. This thread became one of the more popular ones on the site.

Skipper only posted a few times, usually hinting at having inside information on the case. When questioned, no further information was forthcoming.

Then, in December 2010, Skipper posted a long story of how she/he had been abducted by a gang of traffickers who operated in the Montgomery County area, and how there was a connection with the Lyon case. That post was subsequently deleted or withheld by Websleuths moderators for some reason.

In light of more recent information which has come out regarding Lloyd Welch, Jr. and his possible connections with such a group, Skipper's revelations might not seem so far fetched or questionable.

 

[Fukiyama]

I agree that it is certainly possible. I always felt that despite the outlandishness of a lot of Skipper's allegations, there were kernels of truth. That was what drove my careful questioning of her, attempting to draw out more details and encourage her to elaborate on the consistent points she had raised over time in her various posts.

 

[zensiert]

I agree that it is certainly possible. I always felt that despite the outlandishness of a lot of Skipper's allegations, there were kernels of truth. That was what drove my careful questioning of her, attempting to draw out more details and encourage her to elaborate on the consistent points she had raised over time in her various posts.

I remember her posts also. One thing that was unusual was her specific knowledge of the long haired man (LHM) at the mall following the girls (LLW Jr.). She posted about this BEFORE LLW Jr. was ever named as a suspect. Skipper said "Along with other information that was not released that should have been investigated such as the man that was stalking the girls at the mall - and it wasn't the tape record man who was interviewed by police and was not considered a suspect by the police only the media." She KNEW the TRM was not a suspect, and felt MCP should have been looking at the LHM. She knew this way before there was any information available to the public on LLW Jr. Consider how she would know this. Then Fukiyama responded back to her "I don't think I've read about the stalker at the mall. Do you know any details about that?" Well, we all know now the "stalker" at the mall was Lloyd Lee Welch Jr.

In response to Richard's comment #494 about Skipper's post regarding a "gang of traffickers" - If you read Mark Bowden's book "The Last Stone", there is a section in the last Chapter 13 called "Theories" which includes the opinions of the 4 main detectives who interviewed LLW Jr. 3 of the 4 detectives believe that "...Lee Welch and his brothers were involved in a pedophile ring..." Very plausible, although after several years of investigations and millions of dollars spent, there is no way to definitively prove this. Just so many things we'll never know. btw, I do recommend reading the book. A lot of things we believed here on WS are confirmed and many missing pieces are filled in.

 

[Richard]

If Sheila and Katherine Lyon were the victims of a Kidnapping/Trafficking Ring, then there would most certainly have been other connected cases - just by the very definition of such an organization.

In 2013, MCP finally decided to release information and a sketch regarding the Long Haired Man (LHM) whom they subsequently have identified as Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. However, again with the idea that more were involved, I do not think that this completely eliminates the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) from the mix.

It is entirely possible that both were involved in the girls' disappearance. Remember that early on, the TRM was seen by other witnesses operating at other area malls on other days prior to 25 March 1975.

 

[Richard]

Here is a Timeline Of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.’s Known Whereabouts at given times. It was probably posted somewhere in this topic area in the past, but for consideration of other crimes possibly linked to Welch, I am posting it here. Welch was known to travel around the country, so these dates and places are just "snap shots" of where he was.

Date, Location
January 9, 1974, Austin, Texas
March 25, 1975, Wheaton Plaza in Wheaton, Maryland
April 1, 1975, 4714 Baltimore Ave. Hyattsville, Maryland
April 9, 1977, Takoma Park, Maryland
November 1977, Orlando, Florida
November 24,1977, Montgomery County, Maryland
March 6, 1979, 18407 Lost Knife Circle #202, Gaithersburg, (Montgomery County) MD
March 10, 1980, North Miami Beach, Florida
September 15, 1981, 4714 Baltimore Ave. Hyattsville, MD
April 15, 1982 to Sept 11, 1984, Incarcerated, Maryland
March 18, 1987, Los Angeles, CA
April 27, 1987, Sioux City, Iowa
January 10, 1988, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
February 4, 1988, Sioux City, Iowa
December 20, 1988, Horry County, South Carolina
March 17, 1989, Horry County, South Carolina
September 1992, Lockhart, SC
November 16, 1992, Clover, SC
May 19, 1990, Union County, SC
May 01, 1994, Union County, SC
June 13, 1994, Baltimore, MD
June 21, 1994, Road 3 Box 65, Bedford, PA
July 13, 1994, 1800 Elmerton Ave. Harrisburg, PA
1995, Prince William County, VA
June 1996, 2242 Sussex Court Woodbridge, VA
March 1997, New Castle County, DE
July 1997 to 2015, Incarcerated, Delaware
2015 to Present, Incarcerated in Virginia

Welch is also believed to have spent time at various unknown dates in California.

 

[Falcon500]

Richard your research is unparalleled. About the Lost Knife Circle apartment ....who was on the lease and do you know if he was working in Gaithersbug during that time?

 

[Richard]

An interesting coincidence (if it was) which I noticed in typing up the previous post regarding Welch's timeline was that he was incarcerated starting in April 1982 in Maryland - I believe in Jessup Prison.

It was also in April of 1982 that Montgomery County Police received a tip from Jessup prison inmates which connected Raymond Mileski to the Lyon Case. His former Suitland Road backyard was searched for buried bodies as a result of that tip but nothing was found.

Mileski was, at that time, also incarcerated and had been since murdering his wife and son in November 1977. In 2001, Mileski claimed in a letter to have known the abductor of the Lyon sisters, a person he referred to as "C.D." whom he claimed to have met "in the Pen".

In 2001, an informant reported having heard information connecting Mileski and a man named Peele to the Lyon sisters abduction as early as 1977. It was determined that the information was accurate in many details and probably was obtained in December 1977.