Post sentencing discussion

[Paul_1900]

Vansleuths, with all the contradictory info out there, I'm sure we'll hear:

1) Reports that OP just stays in his cell sobbing day & night.
2) Reports that OP is the social butterfly of the hospital wing, out & about, flirting with the nurses.
3) And.. everything in between!

Excerpt from article:
“Since his arrival at Kgosi Mampuru II on Tuesday, other prisoners claim a lot of work had been done to improve certain facilities, including installation of rails in his bathroom. There are unconfirmed reports that Pistorius’s cell was cleaned by another inmate yesterday morning and plans are afoot to install a carpet outside his cell. :biggrin:
Officials have since moved another inmate who is suffering from TB away from the section where Pistorius is held out of fear of exposing him to the disease. The main cause of unhappiness among fellow inmates is largely due to the fact that they have been calling for improvements to the facilities and their cells to no avail.
“This Pistorius issue has put senior correctional services officials under serious pressure. They find themselves between a rock and a hard place because it appears they are doing everything to make sure that he is comfortable,” the informant, who wished to remain anonymous, said.
It was also revealed that Pistorius also wore his orange prison overalls for the first time yesterday, after they could not find a suitable size for him when he arrived.”

http://www.ann7.com/article/20567-2410201424102014-oscar-fuels-jail-tensions.html#.VFCx5TSG-Sp

I frankly don’t know how much truth is in it – but it makes an amusing read

 

[AW2B]

That sounds right until you read further down the WSJ article (I managed to keep a copy of it) where it says:

First, the Supreme Court has to approve the move to appeal, a decision based on whether it is likely that a different judge would have reached a different verdict from Judge Masipa.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/south-african-prosecutors-to-appeal-pistorius-verdict-and-sentence-1414417054

I guess we'll know soon enough.

BBM

That's exactly what I was wondering about..

 

[AW2B]

The Wall Street Journal article was last updated Oct. 27, 2014 12:29 p.m. ET

http://online.wsj.com/articles/sout...eal-pistorius-verdict-and-sentence-1414417054

The SABC interview on YouTube was also 27 Oct and the interviewer says "good evening" at the start. That's the best I can do!

I guess you could ask Nathi Mncube via his twitter account https://twitter.com/mncube_nathi

That would make the article last update at 17:29 SA time..

 

[Paul_1900]

Thanks..but from the TV interview ..you get the impression that it would be up to Massipa to grant or reject the application..then what? Also ..what's the difference between "leave to appeal" and "move to appeal"? TIA

This is what I was referring to in the article:

And this

Could not read the article . .

But could it be the Supreme Court will firstly consider if they allow the appeal once the papers are filed ??? Meaning there would be a third step before they go ahead in dealing with the contents of appeal.

You may like to have a look at Ulrich Rouxs twitter, he is answering a lot of questions right now.

EDIT It's the same thing as Mr. Fossil is refering to above, so I guess there is kind of 3rd step

 

[Estelle]

Over 90% of human beings that have displayed an interest in the trial are against the verdict.

The defenders of the verdict inevitably rely on the right of the Court to decide, as a matter of fact, that OP had no intention to kill when he fired four times through the door believing that there was a human(s) behind the door, because he did not foresee that he MIGHT kill a human.

They are forced to contend that the decision is only supportable on the basis that this claimed lack of foresight on OP"s part "may reasonably, possibly be true".

Certainly there is full legal support for the proposition that a Court is constrained to accept an exculpatory explanation that "may reasonably, possibly be true", in the absence of controverting evidence.

The point that this camp and the Court, with respect, has missed is that :-

1. FIRST there actually has to be an exculpatory explanation;

2. and ONLY then does the Court examine that explanation to test if it is "reasonably possibly true".

If what is served up to the Court is no more, no less than a miss-mash of contradictory, irrational, convoluted statements that are largely incomprehensible---you don't have AN EXCULPATORY EXPLANATION.

I could write a whole tome to prove that what Oscar had to say about the shooting was more nonsensical than sentient. Nonsense can never constitute an explanation.

So in my respectful view the Court never did have an explanation that it could then determine as "reasonably possibly true"

For instance had OP stated with reasonably clarity that he covered the door with the firearm, not intending to fire unless this became necessary, but stumbled causing his elbow to hit the wall setting off a chain reaction in his arm, resulting in him firing, that would have been an explanation that could be tested for being "reasonably possibly true".

In my respectful view the Court had nothing to test except so much gobbledygook.

https://www.facebook.com/chris.greenland.9

 

[Estelle]

Ulrich Roux ‏@ulrichroux Oct 27
To succeed with appl for leave 2 appeal, State must convince J Masipa that DIFF COURT could reach diff verdict upon re-assessing the case

 

[Estelle]

William Booth Interview:

I did not realise this before but the Defence can argue against the Appeal as well as Judge Masipa.

IMO the State could end up petitioning the Supreme Court which I think they might prefer to do anyway.

[video=youtube;AjP4BuIMRAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjP4BuIMRAs[/video]

 

[Estelle]

Interview with Dan Abrahams and Nancy Grace

They make some interesting comments about the verdict.

[video=youtube;qyxZXfx1GWo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyxZXfx1GWo[/video]

 

[Estelle]

OP ignored gun rules: Expert
[video=youtube;eu0mI1zgWFs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu0mI1zgWFs[/video]

 

[AW2B]

I think this article made it clear to me that wsj article was saying that the prosecution was going to SKIP the filing of the appeal at the high court. They were going to directly file an appeal at the Supreme Court of Appeals. This would explain Kelly Phelps's comment in the wsj article ---> "The move will expedite the process and raise its profile, according to Kelly Phelps".

If leave to appeal is granted, the appeal will take the form of legal argument, and whether Judge Masipa was correct in her application of the law. It is unlikely in its initial stages to involve fresh witness testimony, or for Oscar Pistorius to return to court.

If Judge Masipa rejects the application for leave to appeal, the NPA can turn to South Africa’s Supreme Court.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...entence-of-disgraced-paralympian-9820975.html

 

[Estelle]

OP can compete in Rio!

Although South Africa's Olympic and Paralympic officials said Pistorius would not be able to compete in any events for his full sentence, Rio communications director Mario Andreda said Pistorius was judged by the South Africa justice system, and he would be eligible to compete once he fulfilled his obligations with it.

http://www.msn.com/en-za/news/featured/oscar-pistorius-can-compete-in-rio/ar-BBbRBT3

 

[Estelle]

I think this article made it clear to me that wsj article was saying that the prosecution was going to SKIP the filing of the appeal at the high court. They were going to directly file an appeal at the Supreme Court of Appeals. This would explain Kelly Phelps's comment in the wsj article ---> "The move will expedite the process and raise its profile, according to Kelly Phelps".




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...entence-of-disgraced-paralympian-9820975.html

I agree as this is what I have begun to understand tonight. The NPA will then not have to involve Judge Masipa or Roux and can file papers direct to the Supreme Court which will then expedite the Appeal and it will go in front of five Judges.

 

[jay-jay]

OP can compete in Rio!

Although South Africa's Olympic and Paralympic officials said Pistorius would not be able to compete in any events for his full sentence, Rio communications director Mario Andreda said Pistorius was judged by the South Africa justice system, and he would be eligible to compete once he fulfilled his obligations with it.

http://www.msn.com/en-za/news/featured/oscar-pistorius-can-compete-in-rio/ar-BBbRBT3

They've got that wrong because he would not be able to attend/compete under the terms of his house arrest for the remainder of the 5 year term (that's, of course, assuming he isn't allowed some sort of special dispensation during that time in order to allow him to compete, but I was under the impression that the house arrest meant that he was only allowed to attend church and one or two other essential things, and didn't include any sporting activities).

 

[Estelle]

June Steenkamp: Oscar Pistorius is a pathetic figure

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ne-calls-Oscar-Pistorius-is-a-pathetic-figure

Nothing new in this article but I love June's use of the word, "pathetic" to describe OP!

 

[44ALLAN]

I have followed it since June, 2007 but rarely these days. I just lurk now to keep up to date with what is going on. Yes Gerry McCann is the father of Madeleine McCann who IMO is a much better liar and a more seriously narcissistic than even OP!

Really?
I haven't followed the case apart from in the newspapers.
Without saying anything libelous are you saying you think the parents are involved in her disappearance?
Sorry for off topic I'll probably get my wrist slapped lol

 

[Estelle]

They've got that wrong because he would not be able to attend/compete under the terms of his house arrest for the remainder of the 5 year term (that's, of course, assuming he isn't allowed some sort of special dispensation during that time in order to allow him to compete, but I was under the impression that the house arrest meant that he was only allowed to attend church and one or two other essential things, and didn't include any sporting activities).

I thought that he would be able to "work" during his house arrest and as he is an international athlete that has been his "job". However, SA might not allow him to travel overseas even if Brazil does not mind if he has a criminal record and gives him a visa. But which country would he represent and what if he has no sponsors?

 

[Estelle]

Really?
I haven't followed the case apart from in the newspapers.
Without saying anything libelous are you saying you think the parents are involved in her disappearance?
Sorry for off topic I'll probably get my wrist slapped lol

Yes.....pm me if you want to know more.

 

[44ALLAN]

THAT must be what got you so fired up in post #1002! Ha!

Fundamentally, I agree with you, bro, but some people sincerely don't agree with either of us.

It's always been interesting to me how people can look at exactly the same thing and come to two diametrically opposite conclusions about it - like this face/vase picture/optical illusion thing.

I haven't seen many posts from them in awhile but there's a group (albeit rather smaller) of brave folks who were active in this forum before the verdict, who strongly voiced the minority opinion.

I was always mystified about what they were seeing in every twist and turn of the trial, that I was 100% not seeing.

They may have been asking themselves the same thing about what I wrote.

Sorry sis..............I got a bit carried away there for a minute with all these leggy blondes :crosseyed:

 

[Paul_1900]

Ulrich Roux today - on role of defence in appeal (bolded his replies)

@ulrichroux So the defense team can only wait and see atm or what is their job after the state appeals?!
@kati_soph Defence will in all probability oppose the appeal, as OP got a favourable verdict and sentence IMO.
@ulrichroux @kati_soph But can defence stop the appeal. I do not think so, Unfortunately it may really happen.
@ulrichroux I see.. Yeah, a favourable verdict and sentence indeed.. Thank you!
@ulrichroux Which would result in bail appl?
@ShirinDabir @kati_soph Def cant stop appeal, can only oppose it.Only be stopped if State withdraws, leave2appeal's refused or petition fails
@laura_lee62 No, def can only apply for bail pending appeal if they successfully launch an appeal on behalf of OP
@ulrichroux @laura_lee62 But do you think the Def. will do this since this was a light sentence for OP under current circumstances
@ulrichroux @kati_soph Thank you, I was just double checking SA legal system.
@marthavn777 @laura_lee62 No, IMO they won't.
@ulrichroux @laura_lee62 Yes, I have the same feel on that thanks Ulrich

 

[Paul_1900]

Ulrich Roux today - if Masipa doesn't grant leave to appeal


@ulrichroux if Masipa does not grant leave to appeal, can Nel go directly to the Supreme Court of Appeal! What are his chances?
@LynneRBaker he will have to launch a petition to the Supreme Court of Appeal in BFN. Chances good that a petition will succeed
@ulrichroux @LynneRBaker . I believe Judge Masipa will provide leave to appeal anycase.
@smuts_johan @LynneRBaker I agree
@ulrichroux ulrich, when does the state file the application?
@MarileWyk State has 14 court days from sentence to file notice of application for leave to appeal, so on or before 10 Nov