Post sentencing discussion

[Paul_1900]

last one - UR on Seekoie and petition to SCA

@ulrichroux Will the Seekoei case be a big hurdle to overcome in the OP Appeal and will they also App ammo verdict,as he was acquitted?
@Bielie47 Seekoei case shouldn't be too big a hurdle. I believe State will only appeal main charge, but let's wait and see
@ulrichroux @Bielie47 why? Thought Seekoie said no appeal if competent verdict given?
@SusannaDirom @Bielie47 Seekoei decision is open for interpretation IMO, could be used for or against the argument for right to appeal.
@ulrichroux But if right to Appeal granted or obtained by petition to SCA, could the Seekoei case still affect the actual Appeal?
@Bielie47 No, because then the court would have already found that they are entitled to an appeal, and Seekoei would've been overcome

Sorry, I have to rush get some stuff done

 

[Cherwell]

Sorry I didn't get it.

That a person threatening (on the telephone) to break the legs of someone like MB might risk incurring a black eye.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

he was found guilty of two offences that happened at different times, so how can he be a first time offender for both. the tasha's offence came first... so surely for the ch he is not a first time offender. baffling.

That's what I thought too, the other offence happened before the murder. So it's to his advantage he was found guilty at this trial, it shouldn't be so, imo. Doesn't seem fair.:gaah:

 

[james83]

he was found guilty of two offences that happened at different times, so how can he be a first time offender for both. the tasha's offence came first... so surely for the ch he is not a first time offender. baffling.

Yes and it is insane that the Tasha's sentence was suspended when he went on to blow somebodys brains out a month later, total joke.

 

[jay-jay]

Yes and it is insane that the Tasha's sentence was suspended when he went on to blow somebodys brains out a month later, total joke.

It was a bit blinking pointless anyway, considering it was to run concurrently with the CH one .. no wonder OP eventually admitted to it, seeing as there was to likely be no penance to pay for it.

 

[JudgeJudi]

<Respectfully snipped>

BBM Nov 4 2012: Divaris introduced Reeva to OP at the Kyalami racetrack. That same day was when he had the altercation with Quentin van der Burgh. Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the Sports Awards. [This is incorrect]

So this should now read: Should be ...
17 Sept 2012 not 4 Nov- Enraged by jealousy, confronts and swears at Quinton van der Burgh at Kyalami racetrack about his relationship with Sam Taylor.

Sept 2012: Started sending threatening SMSes to Van der Burgh.

Sept 2012: Marc Batchelor, a friend of van der Burgh got involved and he and OP exchanged threatening SMSes with OP threatening to break his legs.

I checked the Daytona Group Blog website, their FB and even some car sites. . .

[*]17[SUP]th[/SUP] September FB entry with pic of OP and Aston Martin

So I wonder, did they delete some data ? Would not make much sense to me, why should they do it? But then it could not have been on the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] November that Reeva met OP first time.

„Daytona Group 17. September 2012
The legend Mr Oscar Pistorius was in Cape town last week, and Daytona Group had given him the Aston Martin Vantage to drive, he was blown away by the performance and new 7 speed Paddle box “

Hi Paul and Estelle, I nearly forgot about this post but just found my note. I think the mystery is solved. I found this:

"During an event at Kyalami racetrack in 17 September, which Van der Burgh and Pistorius both attended, Pistorius reportedly confronted Van der Burgh in the VIP room about the situation".

http://www.channel24.co.za/News/Local/Clifton-Shores-mogul-steals-Oscars-girl-20121121

And as you pointed out Paul, Divaris' statement says:

“On 4 November I hosted a track day at Kyalami Race Track. I independently invited Oscar and Reeva to come”

Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the SA Sports Awards. Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the Sports Awards".

I'm not concerned about dates, only months. Let me know if you're both happy and I'll amend it.

 

[Estelle]

<Respectfully snipped>Hi Paul and Estelle, I nearly forgot about this post but just found my note. I think the mystery is solved. I found this:

"During an event at Kyalami racetrack in 17 September, which Van der Burgh and Pistorius both attended, Pistorius reportedly confronted Van der Burgh in the VIP room about the situation".

http://www.channel24.co.za/News/Local/Clifton-Shores-mogul-steals-Oscars-girl-20121121

And as you pointed out Paul, Divaris' statement says:

&#8220;On 4 November I hosted a track day at Kyalami Race Track. I independently invited Oscar and Reeva to come&#8221;

Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the SA Sports Awards. Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the Sports Awards".

I'm not concerned about dates, only months. Let me know if you're both happy and I'll amend it.

My only reservation is this:

In September Sam Taylor and Oscar appeared on the beaches of the Seychelles in the SABC3 magazine show Top Billing.

[video=youtube;b4GYXxz1b58]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4GYXxz1b58[/video]

I do not know the exact dates but sunroof incident occurred on 30 September, 2012.

I have often wondered this and that is why I thought the altercations with Van Der Burgh and Batchelor occurred in November because other media reports seemed to be dated in November.

"In other manifestations of his capacity for violence, Pistorius allegedly threatened in November 2012 to "break the legs" of Mark Batchelor, the South African football player whom he believed had slept with his then girlfriend. Batchelor accused the athlete of intimidation, but no charge was ever brought.

In a separate incident at the Kyalami racetrack, Pistorius confronted Quinton van der Burgh, a Cape Town coal-mining magnate, after hearing that he had been intimate with one of his former girlfriends. Van der Burgh claimed Pistorius had been so aggressive that he enlisted a lawyer to obtain a restraining order."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/oth...gainst-his-tragic-fallibilities-30582424.html

Clifton Shores mogul 'steals' Oscar's girl PUBLISHED ON 21ST NOVEMBER, 2012
2012-11-21 12:31

http://www.channel24.co.za/News/Local/Clifton-Shores-mogul-steals-Oscars-girl-20121121

 

[Cherwell]

He went to the Seychelles with Samantha Taylor, not Reeva.

 

[Estelle]

He went to the Seychelles with Samantha Taylor, not Reeva.

Where did I state that he went with Reeva? I said "she" but will edit it to read Sam Taylor as I assumed everyone knew it was Sam Taylor.

 

[Cherwell]

Where did I state that he went with Reeva? I said "she" but will edit it to read Sam Taylor as I assumed everyone knew it was Sam Taylor.

You didn't, but Reeva was mentioned in the preceding posts, whereas Sam Taylor wasn't. I didn't quote any of them because the quotes have got mixed up. It was all a bit confusing.

 

[Mr Fossil]

How many bullets are left in the magazine?

Witness testimony analysis 2 re-presents the sequence of events of 14 Feb based upon the supposition that Johnson's phone time is incorrect (see event comments for rationale). This then allows for the possibility that the 3 loud bangs that the Stipps hear some time after Annette Stipp wakes at 03:02 (less 3/4 minutes) are prior to the 4 shots that kill Reeva, which most ear witnesses then hear. One possibility for this first set of sounds is OP firing out of the balcony doors or bathroom window.

The photo of the magazine at the scene shows us that there are at least 10 bullets (of 17) in it but not whether there are more (except there aren't 17 as can be seen from the viewing hole marked '17' which is empty). If there are more than 10 bullets in the magazine then it is unlikely that the first sounds were gunshots. If there are 10, that leaves open the possibility that 7 shots were fired and perhaps the initial 3 cartridge casings were then removed from the scene (via Reeva's bag being one possibility). This also assumes that OP kept the magazine fully loaded, a reasonable assumption?

As there doesn't appear to be any evidence given on how many bullets are left in the magazine, I've had a go at figuring it myself.

From this picture of a disassembled 17 round magazine taken from a Taurus PT917CS (same gun) we can see that there are 12 complete coils in the spring.



Closer inspection of OP's magazine below shows two coils of the spring visible in the bottom right 'viewing hole'. The first is easy to see, and you can see the edge of the second to its right if you look carefully.



If the gap between these two coils is measured and then multiplied by 12 (the total number of coils) this then gives us an approximation for the extent to which the spring is extended within the magazine. Add the piece of yellow plastic that is used as a seat for the last bullet (see top photo) and we have an idea of where the bottom bullet sits in the magazine and therefore how many bullets remain.



The estimating method is inexact but I come to two conclusions assuming the magazine was full to start with:

1) It looks like there are only 10 bullets remaining in the magazine which implies 7 may have been fired
2) Even allowing for the inaccuracies of this approach it still looks like more than 4 bullets are missing, which again supports the 7 bullets used hypothesis

Would anyone else care to have a go at this exercise to see if you agree or not?

 

[BritsKate]

Yes and it is insane that the Tasha's sentence was suspended when he went on to blow somebodys brains out a month later, total joke.

And one of the reasons a judge sentences someone to incarceration is the interest of public safety. So, who's looking out for the best interests of the child who could have been hit sitting right next to their table?

As a parent, I find that one action just so horrific. The lad's lad mentality of he and his friends could have caused a(nother) parent's worst nightmare and there's just no sense of actual understanding on their part of how reckless they truly were.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

What I find most disturbing is that Katie Price has a newspaper column!

:floorlaugh:

awww, I've got a soft heart for her, but she's supporting OP, silly billy.

 

[jay-jay]

:floorlaugh:

awww, I've got a soft heart for her, but she's supporting OP, silly billy.

To be fair, she did say that she 'wasn't exactly supporting him' (not that I'm a fan of hers!) .. just that she was saying that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

A source close to the Pistorius family said his lawyers spent a considerable amount of time preparing the athlete for a prison sentence.

And a source close to the legal team said Pistorius received the sentence Roux expected, and that Roux told Pistorius the public would never forgive him if he did not serve some time behind bars.

Pistorius, the family source said, has also accepted that his athletics career is over and that he will never participate again. He hasn&#8217;t trained for 18 months.
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-r17-5million-legal-headache

Ah! ... No wonder OP and family were so stoic and quiet when the sentence was delivered.

Roux is delusional - excellent chance the public will NEVER forgive OP, regardless how much time he serves.

No big surprise that Uncle Arnie&#8217;s trying to skate on Roux&#8217;s bill. Little Ozzie&#8217;s destitute, essentially unemployable for the rest of his life and with zero income, he can never repay the outstanding legal fees. OP sold all his real and personal property, including a car and set of wheels/tires ... that turnip&#8217;s been wrung dry.

Uncle Arnie sure didn&#8217;t offer any of his personal money towards that insultingly paltry (REJECTED) Steenkamp settlement, did he? He wants to make sure he&#8217;s not out anything. Really makes you wonder if he even believes OP&#8217;s &#8220;version&#8221; of &#8220;self-defense&#8221; and &#8220;terrible accident&#8221;? Seems like he&#8217;d be a bit more generous financially if he actually believed it was genuinely a tragic case of mistaken identity. Perhaps forcing OP to foot all expenses till he&#8217;s broke was his &#8216;punishment&#8217; for recklessly murdering Reeva and bringing shame and notoriety to the family name.

I doubt the arrogant, belligerent OP is fearful of many people (any?) but I imagine at the top of that list is Uncle Arnie. LOL

But even worse for Uncle Arnie - though the trials&#8217;s over and OP&#8217;s sitting in VIP Prison (not the VIP Room) - Uncle Arnie&#8217;s looking at MORE legal fees with the looming appeal. Man, he must be ticked. LOL

My friggin heart just breaks. He must be incensed at being so inconvenienced! Defending the &#8220;innocent&#8221; nephew he very likely knows(?) is guilty of murder - as well as defending the family honor - must be a bitter pill to choke down.

Just take a hammer to the Cartier piggy bank on your night stand, Uncle Arnie. You&#8217;ll never miss it.

 

[KarenUK]

And one of the reasons a judge sentences someone to incarceration is the interest of public safety. So, who's looking out for the best interests of the child who could have been hit sitting right next to their table?

As a parent, I find that one action just so horrific. The lad's lad mentality of he and his friends could have caused a(nother) parent's worst nightmare and there's just no sense of actual understanding on their part of how reckless they truly were.

I dare say if anyone had been hit in the Tasha "incident" OP would have made it out to be their own fault - much in the way it's Reeva's fault he shot her (in his version of events) because she didnt shout out to him! The mans arrogance knows no bounds...

 

[Lux et Veritas]

&#8220;What you do defines who you are. If you do brave, then you are brave. It&#8217;s as simple as that.&#8221;
- Oscar Pistorius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZRh6OxwA5E

We know what he did before prison.

Let us watch what Oscar Pistorius does after prison.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Another example of MiLady's confusion: quoted OP that he didn't intend to kill otherwise he would have aimed higher.
Huh?
When she said that I thought - Milady it's already been acknowledged that "intruder" could have been a child so would still have been hit at that position, plus, a highly knowledgeable and trained gun user would surely have known to shoot midway when the position of the target is unknown as they may be crouching, avoiding etc ... ?

One shot and OP might have argued a weak, still-unbelievable, still-indefensible case of alleged self-defense.

Four shots put him into the realm of executioner.

In this instance, with such lethal ammo, aiming higher or lower is 100% meaningless.

He fired FOUR shots into that tiny deathtrap - at some point, physics and gravity take over ... her head was going to be in the line of fire (exactly as Mangena&#8217;s bullet sequence and trajectories illustrated).

Black Talon bullets have no other purpose than to KILL.

Prof. Saayman himself said that even without the head wound, the devastating arm and/or hip wound would have killed her without IMMEDIATE medical treatment.

In such a tight scenario, aiming four Black Talons higher or lower makes zero difference - someone was going to be horrifically maimed for life or more likely, certainly killed.

On his version, he had no idea who was behind that door.

7'2" Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?
4'11" Danny DeVito?
4'5" Game of Thrones actor Peter Dinklage?

Yes, two guys actually shorter than OP on stumps - 5'2".

He claims he didn&#8217;t intend to kill anyone- but that&#8217;s exactly what he did (Derman&#8217;s &#8220;neutralize the threat&#8221; was a fascinating choice of words, wasn&#8217;t it?).

Just who did OP think was behind that door that he would need to aim &#8220;higher&#8221; to &#8220;kill&#8221;? Why would he automatically assume the person behind the door was not jammed into a tiny corner, face-first or kneeling, head down, on the floor or even sitting on the toilet? In those positions, aiming higher wouldn&#8217;t kill them.

That Reeva was first shot in the hip while standing facing the door does NOT exclude the possibility that at some point(s) during the arguing and screaming, she could have actually been sitting on the toilet while talking to him (injured foot/ankle from running? finally felt relatively &#8220;safe&#8221;? ... attempting to frantically dial police?) or maybe crouching in fear. If he was tracking her voice, his shots were actually aimed at HEAD/chest level. Unable to see her, he couldn&#8217;t have known she had quietly stood up (maybe when he disappeared to get his gun?). When he returned, he fired where he last heard her voice (i.e. head) - hence the hip shot. Had she known a 9mm was on the way, she certainly wouldn&#8217;t have been standing in front of the door.

Hard to tell who&#8217;s more delusional - OP for spewing such garbage or Masipa for buying it.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2013/05/oscar-pistorius-murder-case-he-shot-her


Seal reports that some of Steenkamp’s friends noticed warning signs prior to her murder.

“I thought, What the hell is she doing with him?” says Pepi Dimevski, owner of SA Hardcore Tattoos, who tattooed the word “lioness” on Reeva’s ankle. “I told her, ‘It doesn’t matter how famous he is. His name is not good around people on the street.’”

I'm always searching a single detail and then I'm finding another, which impresses me again ... Nothing more to it.

 

[Mr Fossil]

NPA pushes ahead with Oscar Pistorius appeal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNx7xQKK-a8&feature=youtu.be

Includes another brief interview with Nathi Mncube