Post sentencing discussion

[foxbluff]

he was found guilty of two offences that happened at different times, so how can he be a first time offender for both. the tasha's offence came first... so surely for the ch he is not a first time offender. baffling.

BBM - During this case I read somewhere where a lawyer was quoted (can't recall now if it was Roux or one of the talking heads) saying that the only reason Nel had coupled the gun charges in with the charge of murder was in hopes that the gun charges might help sway the Judge's opinion on the murder charge.

Lawyer being quoted stated that when different crimes are coupled together in the same charge pleading, then neither can be used to prove or disprove the other.

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM - During this case I read somewhere where a lawyer was quoted (can't recall now if it was Roux or one of the talking heads) saying that the only reason Nel had coupled the gun charges in with the charge of murder was in hopes that the gun charges might help sway the Judge's opinion on the murder charge.

Lawyer being quoted stated that when different crimes are coupled together in the same charge pleading, then neither can be used to prove or disprove the other.

I understood that it was a clever way of introducing character evidence.

 

[jilly]

Thanks..but from the TV interview ..you get the impression that it would be up to Massipa to grant or reject the application..then what? Also ..what's the difference between "leave to appeal" and "move to appeal"? TIA

This is what I was referring to in the article:

And this

I hope this is no indication of how the appeal will go when we can't even get clarity on the process.

 

[Interested Bystander]

O/T Is anyone having trouble with the Messaging system on the forum? I have just tried to send half a dozen messages (or rather one message half a dozen times). Each time I hit submit the page hangs and eventually times out. I have a 100mb cable connection so I don't think it is anything my end.

 

[AW2B]

NPA pushes ahead with Oscar Pistorius appeal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNx7xQKK-a8&feature=youtu.be

Includes another brief interview with Nathi Mncube

Thanks..it looks like that interview was the latest...so they have to go thru Masipa first..
However, he said that they are confident she will grant it..good! I hope so..

Maybe they changed their plan...

 

[AW2B]

I hope this is no indication of how the appeal will go when we can't even get clarity on the process.

I think it's that wsj article that caused the confusion..you know I sent the author an email asking her to confirm what she said in the article..she insisted that they will not go thru Masipa..that she was told they will file the appeal directly at SCA. It's possible they changed their mind..

 

[Interested Bystander]

I am not sure if this has been posted before. Apologies if it has. It is re the possible "sticking point" of the The Seekoei-barrier and is by Prof Grant

https://criminallaw101andbeyond.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/seekoei-beeld.pdf

 

[vansleuths]

Excerpt from article:
“Since his arrival at Kgosi Mampuru II on Tuesday, other prisoners claim a lot of work had been done to improve certain facilities, including installation of rails in his bathroom. There are unconfirmed reports that Pistorius’s cell was cleaned by another inmate yesterday morning and plans are afoot to install a carpet outside his cell. :biggrin:
Officials have since moved another inmate who is suffering from TB away from the section where Pistorius is held out of fear of exposing him to the disease. The main cause of unhappiness among fellow inmates is largely due to the fact that they have been calling for improvements to the facilities and their cells to no avail.
“This Pistorius issue has put senior correctional services officials under serious pressure. They find themselves between a rock and a hard place because it appears they are doing everything to make sure that he is comfortable,” the informant, who wished to remain anonymous, said.
It was also revealed that Pistorius also wore his orange prison overalls for the first time yesterday, after they could not find a suitable size for him when he arrived.”

http://www.ann7.com/article/20567-2410201424102014-oscar-fuels-jail-tensions.html#.VFCx5TSG-Sp

I frankly don’t know how much truth is in it – but it makes an amusing read

Thanks for this information, it's one of the few tidbits that I have seen on his short time in prison.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29793210

Twitter Q&A: Milton Nkosi answers questions on the killing of Senzo Meyiwa

Riche Juif Joel emails a question: How can they stop killing each other, when sentences are as short as five years in jail?

Miltons says: True, if you use the Pistorius case as an example, but there are many more inmates who are serving longer sentences behind bars.

 

[Cherwell]

I am not sure if this has been posted before. Apologies if it has. It is re the possible "sticking point" of the The Seekoei-barrier and is by Prof Grant

https://criminallaw101andbeyond.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/seekoei-beeld.pdf

Thanks, I hadn't seen it explained in such detail before.

Now presumably it shouldn't be up to Masipa to grant leave to appeal Seekoei. So perhaps this is the appeal that the State is taking straight to the appeal court. Would that make sense?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

How many bullets are left in the magazine?

Witness testimony analysis 2 re-presents the sequence of events of 14 Feb based upon the supposition that Johnson's phone time is incorrect (see event comments for rationale). This then allows for the possibility that the 3 loud bangs that the Stipps hear some time after Annette Stipp wakes at 03:02 (less 3/4 minutes) are prior to the 4 shots that kill Reeva, which most ear witnesses then hear. One possibility for this first set of sounds is OP firing out of the balcony doors or bathroom window.

The photo of the magazine at the scene shows us that there are at least 10 bullets (of 17) in it but not whether there are more (except there aren't 17 as can be seen from the viewing hole marked '17' which is empty). If there are more than 10 bullets in the magazine then it is unlikely that the first sounds were gunshots. If there are 10, that leaves open the possibility that 7 shots were fired and perhaps the initial 3 cartridge casings were then removed from the scene (via Reeva's bag being one possibility). This also assumes that OP kept the magazine fully loaded, a reasonable assumption?

As there doesn't appear to be any evidence given on how many bullets are left in the magazine, I've had a go at figuring it myself.

From this picture of a disassembled 17 round magazine taken from a Taurus PT917CS (same gun) we can see that there are 12 complete coils in the spring.

View attachment 62408

Closer inspection of OP's magazine below shows two coils of the spring visible in the bottom right 'viewing hole'. The first is easy to see, and you can see the edge of the second to its right if you look carefully.

View attachment 62409

If the gap between these two coils is measured and then multiplied by 12 (the total number of coils) this then gives us an approximation for the extent to which the spring is extended within the magazine. Add the piece of yellow plastic that is used as a seat for the last bullet (see top photo) and we have an idea of where the bottom bullet sits in the magazine and therefore how many bullets remain.

View attachment 62412

The estimating method is inexact but I come to two conclusions assuming the magazine was full to start with:

1) It looks like there are only 10 bullets remaining in the magazine which implies 7 may have been fired
2) Even allowing for the inaccuracies of this approach it still looks like more than 4 bullets are missing, which again supports the 7 bullets used hypothesis

Would anyone else care to have a go at this exercise to see if you agree or not?

I agree with your exercise without checking, because there were early statements after the murder, that neighbours heard 6-8 shots. When I remember, newspapers also wrote so. - Generally I think, the news on 14./15.2.2013 and the following days weren't as wrong as asserted later (I think of the shot to Reeva's hip, perhaps before she had entered the toilet ... etc.).

 

[Paul_1900]

<Respectfully snipped>Hi Paul and Estelle, I nearly forgot about this post but just found my note. I think the mystery is solved. I found this:

"During an event at Kyalami racetrack in 17 September, which Van der Burgh and Pistorius both attended, Pistorius reportedly confronted Van der Burgh in the VIP room about the situation".

http://www.channel24.co.za/News/Local/Clifton-Shores-mogul-steals-Oscars-girl-20121121

And as you pointed out Paul, Divaris' statement says:

&#8220;On 4 November I hosted a track day at Kyalami Race Track. I independently invited Oscar and Reeva to come&#8221;

Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the SA Sports Awards. Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the Sports Awards".

I'm not concerned about dates, only months. Let me know if you're both happy and I'll amend it.

Hi JJ,

thanks a lot for following up :smile:- I was too busy these days. sorry.

Agree that most probably altercation with Van der Burgh and OP took place in September.

Still I could not find any event mentioned on the Daytona Group blog site for neither Sept. 17 nor Nov. 4th. That was the thing so surprising to me . . why no entry if they were hosting these events ? . . but assume SAPS/NPA will have checked the dates. In the end 4th November is confirmed as 1st meeting of OP with Reeva by several accounts.

Maybe we have to leave it at that . .

 

[jilly]

I think it's that wsj article that caused the confusion..you know I sent the author an email asking her to confirm what she said in the article..she insisted that they will not go thru Masipa..that she was told they will file the appeal directly at SCA. It's possible they changed their mind..

Yes...thanks for questioning the author. It just doesn't seem logical to me that a Judge would determine whether his or her verdict/sentence could be appealed.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Hi JJ,

thanks a lot for following up :smile:- I was too busy these days. sorry.

Agree that most probably altercation with Van der Burgh and OP took place in September.

Still I could not find any event mentioned on the Daytona Group blog site for neither Sept. 17 nor Nov. 4th. That was the thing so surprising to me . . why no entry if they were hosting these events ? . . but assume SAPS/NPA will have checked the dates. In the end 4th November is confirmed as 1st meeting of OP with Reeva by several accounts.

Maybe we have to leave it at that . .

I think, Divaris has decided to delete all appointments, that had to do with the murderer OP.

 

[foxbluff]

http://theafricaneye.com/2014/10/29...unces-appeal-against-conviction-and-sentence/

Its official! South Africa’s National Prosecution Authority has announced on Twitter that it will appeal against both the conviction and judgement in the celebrated Oscar Pistorius case. The post on the NPA’s official Twitter handle says: ‘Oscar Pistorius judgement, NPA will be appealing both the conviction and sentence’.

You’ll recall that THE AFRICAN EYE indicated the possibility of an appeal in a report on 25 October. (Catch-up here).

Pistorius was given a five-year sentence for the culpable homicide of Miss Steenkamp, 29, last week with a strong possibility that he could serve as little as ten months in prison before carrying out the rest of the sentence under house arrest.

Thank you, FromGermany!

I've copied/pasted subject tweets:

Nathi Mncube @mncube_nathi · Oct 27 Oscar Pistorius judgement , NPA will be appealing both the conviction and sentence

Nathi Mncube @mncube_nathi · Oct 26 The matter is under serious consideration and the announcement will be made in due course.

Nathi Mncube @mncube_nathi · Oct 26 decision on whether or not 2 appeal the Oscar Pistorius Judgement has NOT been taken. Anything contrary 2 dat is baseless n devoid of truth

 

[Errrr]

I suspect he appealed to her maternal instincts. She probably thought that, deep down, he was a decent guy - just a bit moody and wild on the outside - perhaps, due to the prosthetics and the loss of his mother.

Also, when someone is so adored by the public, it's quite easy to be influenced into thinking they must be decent or so many would not have been fooled.

I read somewhere that her mother thought she must have been flattered by all the attention and I agree that this obviously must have played its part.

I suspect he only wanted her for showing off in front of his friends and to bug the ex he keeps texting all the time.

 

[Paul_1900]

I think, Divaris has decided to delete all appointments, that had to do with the murderer OP.

Might be, but they didn't delete e.g. the October 2012 blog entry of OP visiting McLaren HQ in England.

It's just odd there is NO ENTRY at all on their blog (or anywhere else on the internet) for certain dates mentioned in the trial - and J.Divaris is the CEO of the company, but there is other members of board, so I assume he can't decide on his own.

I remember reading a comment on an article long long time ago, suggesting Divaris had retracted from OP - along the lines of "he did not want to get involved in a murder case" . . . for the life of me I cannot find that comment now

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.norddeutsche-nachrichten.de/urteil-pistorius-wird-5-jahre-in-badezimmer-gesperrt/

Urteil: Pistorius wird 5 Jahre in Badezimmer gesperrt

Die Richterin verfügte, dass der ehemalige Sportstar die Strafe in einem Badezimmer verbringen muss: ”Angesichts des Tatverlaufs halten wir diese Variante für angemessen”.

Des weiteren entschied sie, dass für die gesamte Zeit der Strafe schwer bewaffnete Bewacher vor dem Badezimmer postiert werden, um bei verdächtigen Geräuschen sofort das Feuer auf die Tür zu eröffnen. Dies sei ein Zugeständnis an das starke Sicherheitsgefühl des Verurteilten, der sich bekanntlich sehr vor Einbrechern ängstige.

Google translation:
Verdict: Pistorius is five years locked in bathroom

The judge ordered that the former sports star must spend the punishment in a bathroom: "Given the Tatverlaufs we consider this variant to be appropriate".

Furthermore, they decided that for the entire time the punishment heavily armed guards are stationed outside the bathroom to open at suspicious noises immediately fire on the door. This was a concession to the strong sense of security convicts, who famously frightens himself greatly before burglars.

 

[vansleuths]

They've got that wrong because he would not be able to attend/compete under the terms of his house arrest for the remainder of the 5 year term (that's, of course, assuming he isn't allowed some sort of special dispensation during that time in order to allow him to compete, but I was under the impression that the house arrest meant that he was only allowed to attend church and one or two other essential things, and didn't include any sporting activities).

It's not a sporting event, it is his job/career and under the terms of house arrest, he needs to have a job. The question will be whether all of the different Olympic bodies will allow him to compete.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Might be, but they didn't delete e.g. the October 2012 blog entry of OP visiting McLaren HQ in England.

It's just odd there is NO ENTRY at all on their blog (or anywhere else on the internet) for certain dates mentioned in the trial - and J.Divaris is the CEO of the company, but there is other members of board, so I assume he can't decide on his own.

I remember reading a comment on an article long long time ago, suggesting Divaris had retracted from OP - along the lines of "he did not want to get involved in a murder case" . . . for the life of me I cannot find that comment now

That's exactly what I do also: searching the old things, I remember - but finding NOTHING except other things, nobody wants to know. :smile: