Post Verdict - Ross Harris Trial

[NCTeacher]

NCTeacher -

I don't find anything sinister in the "hot car" chatter with Stoddard, but I may need to re-watch that footage. To me it sounds like "Ross being Ross" and talking at length about the subject at hand. His time at Cobb HQ looks much more to me like someone on the Asperger's Spectrum - talking away, often out of context with the situation at hand.

Obviously he was also trying to cast events in the best light possible. The talk of double checking and being obsessed with hot car deaths was probably improvised, and he may have thought that mentioning the trip to the car after lunch would make him look like a total idiot.

I did have trouble with is behavior after getting in the car, but it can still fit the accident theory. What if he realized, as soon as he got in the car, what had happened? What if he sped off, freaking out, trying to figure out what to do? What if his fear at that point was "what will other people think of me? Leanna?? My Brother???" His demeanor at the scene and at Cobb are consistent with such a scenario.

I just can't bridge the gap between this being a well planned murder and literally everything that happened that day pointing to zero planning whatsoever. Even his reaction when Stoddard told him to wait in a cell - Ross's "say, what?!!" double-take is classic. It was the reaction of someone who had no clue he was ever going to be charged with a crime. I find it hard to believe that he planned and carried this heinous crime with zero consideration of consequences. Look at Jodi's first hours custody - she was shucking and jiving, but harbored no allusions as to the long road ahead.

Well, *if* that is what he did (saw him, and then drove off trying to figure out what to do) then by logical deduction his behavior at the scene of the "discovery" was staged and his defense was rife with lies.

Just the same, I really consider that a far-fetched theory. If this was unintentional, a normal, loving parent (as Ross seems to have been) would've FLIPPED OUT and done everything he could to attempt to save his child's life at the moment of discovery. A parent doesn't think rationally in those situations, he doesn't think "oh, he's been in here seven hours. He's dead. What the hell do I do now? Okay, let me race out of here and pull into a busy shopping place and act like I just discovered him..." Instead a parent thinks "OMG, OMFG, my baby, Cooper, Cooper-- (runs to the back seat to get him) wake up, please wake up, wake up ---HELP, somebody HELP, call 911--no, no, please be okay, Cooper---look at me, please, (check for breathing, check for pulse) SOMEONE CALL 911 NOW (he might throw an F-bomb in here, that would be a normal reaction)." Okay, I concede, everybody reacts differently, but NO loving parent would risk the chance of their child still being alive and getting him medical attention so they can drive off and hatch a plan.

No,Ross didn't react that way when he arrived at his car because he was fully rational---he wasn't overwrought with grief and anguish. He came to the car and found it exactly as he expected, smelling of the rancid odor of baking pee and sweat, feeling of repressive saturation. He drove to a busy place to stage the discovery because he himself had stated a few weeks prior that the only reason he believed a certain person was not guilty was because of the witnesses---and Ross felt he too needed witnesses, strangers attesting to how emotional and sorrowful he was upon realizing his child was dead.

If this was unintentional--as I said before, unless his car always reeked of urine, he would've looked for the source of the smell. He would've saw Cooper, and he would've freaked in the lot. Had he freaked in the lot, his story would have been a lot more believable.

His story would've also been more believable if he had gone through the CFA drive thru that morning---he could've said "oh, I meant to take Cooper to CFA but he fell asleep right before we go there, so I decided to let him sleep and get my food in the drive thru, and then out of habit I just drove on to work, carried my breakfast in like I always do--I meant to take him to daycare, I can't believe I forgot" Then, if he avoided the car during the day and then discovered Cooper after work in the lot---this story would've been quite credible.

Then, I would've believed his story, and I wouldn't have followed it--and I wouldn't be here today. Hubris destroyed Ross.

As far as Ross at the police station, he did a double take because he thought he had this planned out hook, line, sinker. He never thought for one second, in all of his arrogance, loving and doting fatherly ways, and charm (yes, he has it, he is very likeable), that anyone would question or doubt his story.

 

[monkeypants]

Well, *if* that is what he did (saw him, and then drove off trying to figure out what to do) then by logical deduction his behavior at the scene of the "discovery" was staged and his defense was rife with lies.

Just the same, I really consider that a far-fetched theory. If this was unintentional, a normal, loving parent (as Ross seems to have been) would've FLIPPED OUT and done everything he could to attempt to save his child's life at the moment of discovery. A parent doesn't think rationally in those situations, he doesn't think "oh, he's been in here seven hours. He's dead. What the hell do I do now? Okay, let me race out of here and pull into a busy shopping place and act like I just discovered him..." Instead a parent thinks "OMG, OMFG, my baby, Cooper, Cooper-- (runs to the back seat to get him) wake up, please wake up, wake up ---HELP, somebody HELP, call 911--no, no, please be okay, Cooper---look at me, please, (check for breathing, check for pulse) SOMEONE CALL 911 NOW (he might throw an F-bomb in here, that would be a normal reaction)." Okay, I concede, everybody reacts differently, but NO loving parent would risk the chance of their child still being alive and getting him medical attention so they can drive off and hatch a plan.

No,Ross didn't react that way when he arrived at his car because he was fully rational---he wasn't overwrought with grief and anguish. He came to the car and found it exactly as he expected, smelling of the rancid odor of baking pee and sweat, feeling of repressive saturation. He drove to a busy place to stage the discovery because he himself had stated a few weeks prior that the only reason he believed a certain person was not guilty was because of the witnesses---and Ross felt he too needed witnesses, strangers attesting to how emotional and sorrowful he was upon realizing his child was dead.

If this was unintentional--as I said before, unless his car always reeked of urine, he would've looked for the source of the smell. He would've saw Cooper, and he would've freaked in the lot. Had he freaked in the lot, his story would have been a lot more believable.

His story would've also been more believable if he had gone through the CFA drive thru that morning---he could've said "oh, I meant to take Cooper to CFA but he fell asleep right before we go there, so I decided to let him sleep and get my food in the drive thru, and then out of habit I just drove on to work, carried my breakfast in like I always do--I meant to take him to daycare, I can't believe I forgot" Then, if he avoided the car during the day and then discovered Cooper after work in the lot---this story would've been quite credible.

Then, I would've believed his story, and I wouldn't have followed it--and I wouldn't be here today. Hubris destroyed Ross.

As far as Ross at the police station, he did a double take because he thought he had this planned out hook, line, sinker. He never thought for one second, in all of his arrogance, loving and doting fatherly ways, and charm (yes, he has it, he is very likeable), that anyone would question or doubt his story.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MsMtOlympus]

NCTeacher -

I don't find anything sinister in the "hot car" chatter with Stoddard, but I may need to re-watch that footage. To me it sounds like "Ross being Ross" and talking at length about the subject at hand. His time at Cobb HQ looks much more to me like someone on the Asperger's Spectrum - talking away, often out of context with the situation at hand.

Obviously he was also trying to cast events in the best light possible. The talk of double checking and being obsessed with hot car deaths was probably improvised, and he may have thought that mentioning the trip to the car after lunch would make him look like a total idiot.

I did have trouble with is behavior after getting in the car, but it can still fit the accident theory. What if he realized, as soon as he got in the car, what had happened? What if he sped off, freaking out, trying to figure out what to do? What if his fear at that point was "what will other people think of me? Leanna?? My Brother???" His demeanor at the scene and at Cobb are consistent with such a scenario.

I just can't bridge the gap between this being a well planned murder and literally everything that happened that day pointing to zero planning whatsoever. Even his reaction when Stoddard told him to wait in a cell - Ross's "say, what?!!" double-take is classic. It was the reaction of someone who had no clue he was ever going to be charged with a crime. I find it hard to believe that he planned and carried this heinous crime with zero consideration of consequences. Look at Jodi's first hours custody - she was shucking and jiving, but harbored no allusions as to the long road ahead.

Definitely re-watch not only that particular footage but all the interrogation tapes with Stoddard as well (including the one with Leanna - and even though it's hard because Leanna herself is so bizarre, really focus on Harris and his words and emotions). The footage as a whole is what helped pushed me to believe that this was an act of intentional murder. Of course, the tapes are not the only factor as it is as members of jury said, the totality of the evidence that points to guilt.

I agree that the double-take was "the reaction of someone who had no clue he was ever going to charged with a crime." That's because Harris was convinced that after the public performance (i.e. the "discovery" of Cooper's body) he would be questioned, maybe even at length, then released that same night. He never thought he'd have to use a metal toilet or lie on a hard cot even once during his time with the police. To me, this is truly "Ross being Ross". (As for Asperger's, if he had been diagnosed as being on the Spectrum then I think that would have played a part in the trial by his defense to explain his off-putting behavior during interrogation. Once you take away the Asperger's angle, what exactly is the explanation for his behavior?)

 

[MsMtOlympus]

NCTeacher, had I not already believed Harris was guilty your points and arguments would have definitely convinced me. Great insight on your part!

 

[MrX]

For the record, I'm not saying that I believe he is innocent, but that, as a juror, I don't know that I could have voted to convict, based on the evidence presented at trial.


The prosecution struck me as desperately resorting to character assasination and miss-representing facts. I found Leanna to be extremely credible on the stand and, as the closest thing to a living victim, her belief that it was an accident carried immense weight for me (as an armchair juror).


I simply can't balance torturing one's own child to death in a public place with any of the motives given:


1) 20K insurance???
2) A divorce that his wife freely offered? People have mentioned the financial burden but Leanna strikes me as someone who would have been more than willing to take Cooper to Alabama and start a new life. If Ross wanted out, I think she have traded full custody for minimal or no financial support.
3) "Life Style?" That was a creation of the Prosecution. I can't believe he committed murder to be with any of the women paraded before the jury. I suspect he would have grown old seeing the same prostitute once every other month for decades.


Cap it off with making no effort to cover his online tracks, and choosing a crime scene surrounded by people and security cameras.


I know the explaination for this is that "he thought he was smarter than everyone." Jodi acted that way her whole life - she still acts like that, if you follow her tweets. I simply don't see it in Ross.


If I had to pick an option, I think it was an experiment in thrill seeking that went wrong. I don't believe he was consciously aware that he was being filmed at Cobb HQ. When he put his head in his hands and said "what were you thinkng," it wasn't an act, it was a confession. He had been spiraling into ever more dangerous behavior - watching *advertiser censored* in bed next to his sleeping wife, chatting with strangers, meeting with strangers, seeing prostitutes, sexting underage girls, talking about hooking up with men, etc. Scott Peterson was a sex-fiend - he ordered *advertiser censored* channels on his TV within days of Laci's murder. For all the "danger" in Ross's behavior, there really wasn't that much actual "sex." I can see a situation where thrills were getting harder to come by and he left Cooper in the car to take it up a notch. He either didn't have an "end game," or he was unable to stop what he started.

 

[monkeypants]

You're spinning your wheels. He has been convicted by a jury of his peers and none of your list of items will be a reason for appeal.

 

[NCTeacher]

For the record, I'm not saying that I believe he is innocent, but that, as a juror, I don't know that I could have voted to convict, based on the evidence presented at trial.


The prosecution struck me as desperately resorting to character assasination and miss-representing facts. I found Leanna to be extremely credible on the stand and, as the closest thing to a living victim, her belief that it was an accident carried immense weight for me (as an armchair juror).


I simply can't balance torturing one's own child to death in a public place with any of the motives given:


1) 20K insurance???
2) A divorce that his wife freely offered? People have mentioned the financial burden but Leanna strikes me as someone who would have been more than willing to take Cooper to Alabama and start a new life. If Ross wanted out, I think she have traded full custody for minimal or no financial support.
3) "Life Style?" That was a creation of the Prosecution. I can't believe he committed murder to be with any of the women paraded before the jury. I suspect he would have grown old seeing the same prostitute once every other month for decades.


Cap it off with making no effort to cover his online tracks, and choosing a crime scene surrounded by people and security cameras.


I know the explaination for this is that "he thought he was smarter than everyone." Jodi acted that way her whole life - she still acts like that, if you follow her tweets. I simply don't see it in Ross.


If I had to pick an option, I think it was an experiment in thrill seeking that went wrong. I don't believe he was consciously aware that he was being filmed at Cobb HQ. When he put his head in his hands and said "what were you thinkng," it wasn't an act, it was a confession. He had been spiraling into ever more dangerous behavior - watching *advertiser censored* in bed next to his sleeping wife, chatting with strangers, meeting with strangers, seeing prostitutes, sexting underage girls, talking about hooking up with men, etc. Scott Peterson was a sex-fiend - he ordered *advertiser censored* channels on his TV within days of Laci's murder. For all the "danger" in Ross's behavior, there really wasn't that much actual "sex." I can see a situation where thrills were getting harder to come by and he left Cooper in the car to take it up a notch. He either didn't have an "end game," or he was unable to stop what he started.

I also found Leanna very credible, I don't think she had any involvement whatsoever (although my good friends on here would beg to differ )

She's very intelligent and intuitive---she was able to think quickly on her feet and recognize when she was getting boxed in a corner. Yet, her maneuvering and attempt to disarm the prosecution (somewhat combatively) did not sneak past me. Perceptive people would say the prosecution nailed it with her. Basically, she admitted (without directly stating or conceding) that Ross is capable of doing the unimaginable.This entire fiasco revealed a side of Ross to her that she just didn't know existed and he was capable of doing things she never imagined he would do: cheat, sext other women, sext minors, have sex with men, etc.. The prosecution got defense witnesses to admit that Ross was a loving, devoted husband---but clearly had no problem violating that love and trust.

The jurors and armchair jurors alike were left to ask themselves: If Ross can put on good show of a loving, devoted husband and violate that love and trust so deceptively leaving everyone in a state of disbelief, does it not stand to reason he can also put on good show of a loving, devoted father and violate that love and trust equally deceptively and equally beyond belief?? After all, he, himself, said he had no conscience.

Good move by the prosecution. .

Leanna's lack of belief in his intent means little. She cannot reconcile what he made himself out to be as a father with a intentionally, murderous demon that he actually is. I have spoken to her, I know how she feels about him, and I disagree wholeheartedly

As for motive---I don't think it really matters if we don't know WHAT the final, pushed-him-over-the-edge impetus was---it was not one single thing, but a combination of many. He wanted out of his marital and parental duties in order to pursue a playboy lifestyle. He wanted to do it in a way that was permanent in an indirect, hands-off kind of way that could be considered an "accident" and elicit sympathy from others to appease his grandiose, self-aggrandizing ego. He had worked hard to create an image of himself (Church band-leader, father, husband, pillar of the community sort)--he couldn't just bail without tarnishing that image. For him, the only solution was to "forget" Cooper and leave it in God's hands, let nature take its course in facilitating his son's demise so he would play the part of victim whose marriage would then fall apart without the bond of their child holding them together. Leanna probably inadvertently planted the seed because of fears of this manner of death. As someone said earlier on this forum, the manner of death was also probably an attempt to kick Leanna in the face.

 

[NCTeacher]

NCTeacher, had I not already believed Harris was guilty your points and arguments would have definitely convinced me. Great insight on your part!

Thank you!!! This is a case that my brain has mulled through continuously

 

[neesaki]

I also found Leanna very credible, I don't think she had any involvement whatsoever (although my good friends on here would beg to differ )

She's very intelligent and intuitive---she was able to think quickly on her feet and recognize when she was getting boxed in a corner. Yet, her maneuvering and attempt to disarm the prosecution (somewhat combatively) did not sneak past me. Perceptive people would say the prosecution nailed it with her. Basically, she admitted (without directly stating or conceding) that Ross is capable of doing the unimaginable.This entire fiasco revealed a side of Ross to her that she just didn't know existed and he was capable of doing things she never imagined he would do: cheat, sext other women, sext minors, have sex with men, etc.. The prosecution got defense witnesses to admit that Ross was a loving, devoted husband---but clearly had no problem violating that love and trust.

The jurors and armchair jurors alike were left to ask themselves: If Ross can put on good show of a loving, devoted husband and violate that love and trust so deceptively leaving everyone in a state of disbelief, does it not stand to reason he can also put on good show of a loving, devoted father and violate that love and trust equally deceptively and equally beyond belief?? After all, he, himself, said he had no conscience.

Good move by the prosecution. .

Leanna's lack of belief in his intent means little. She cannot reconcile what he made himself out to be as a father with a intentionally, murderous demon that he actually is. I have spoken to her, I know how she feels about him, and I disagree wholeheartedly

As for motive---I don't think it really matters if we don't know WHAT the final, pushed-him-over-the-edge impetus was---it was not one single thing, but a combination of many. He wanted out of his marital and parental duties in order to pursue a playboy lifestyle. He wanted to do it in a way that was permanent in an indirect, hands-off kind of way that could be considered an "accident" and elicit sympathy from others to appease his grandiose, self-aggrandizing ego. He had worked hard to create an image of himself (Church band-leader, father, husband, pillar of the community sort)--he couldn't just bail without tarnishing that image. For him, the only solution was to "forget" Cooper and leave it in God's hands, let nature take its course in facilitating his son's demise so he would play the part of victim whose marriage would then fall apart without the bond of their child holding them together. Leanna probably inadvertently planted the seed because of fears of this manner of death. As someone said earlier on this forum, the manner of death was also probably an attempt to kick Leanna in the face.

Im trying to remember, did he actually admit he had no conscience? And why would he do that?! BTW, I totally agree with your post!

 

[NCTeacher]

This is Vinnie Politan's analysis of the visit to the car at lunch. Begin at 13 min mark. I can clearly see Ross Harris stop, turn to see if the man is walking past his car. He takes a couple steps forward, puts phone in selfie pose (presumably to watch the person walking by his car) and then once the man clears the car, puts the phone down and proceeds to walk back into work. Defense and friends would like us to think this is just yet another coincidence, just another one of the strange "innocent" circumstances that aligned against him.
https://www.facebook.com/11Alive/videos/10153968151355496/

 

[NCTeacher]

Im trying to remember, did he actually admit he had no conscience? And why would he do that?! BTW, I totally agree with your post!

In trial, evidence was presented that while engaging in a conversation with another woman he admitted he had no conscience. The context was: conversation was taking place while his wife and baby were in the room and the woman asked him how he could do such a thing, and he said he had conscience.

Context though, I think, is irrelevant when one says "I have no conscience." I have never said that, and I never will because there is always a line I will not cross.

I truly believe there is NO line Ross will not cross to fulfill his selfish desires.

 

[monkeypants]

Im trying to remember, did he actually admit he had no conscience? And why would he do that?! BTW, I totally agree with your post!

It was his one moment of honesty apparently....they all slip at some point and reveal themselves

 

[agentorange90]

I think I read somewhere there is going to be a special on one of the news shows about the Ross Harris trial. I am sure curiousity will get the best of me and I will watch it. I just wonder how this can be all that compelling. It seems like there's really nothing else to say about the case. The prosecution presented a good case even though it was circumstantial evidence. Looking back at the case, I think the lunchtime car visit was ultimately what swayed the jury.

 

[monkeypants]

I think I read somewhere there is going to be a special on one of the news shows about the Ross Harris trial. I am sure curiousity will get the best of me and I will watch it. I just wonder how this can be all that compelling. It seems like there's really nothing else to say about the case. The prosecution presented a good case even though it was circumstantial evidence. Looking back at the case, I think the lunchtime car visit was ultimately what swayed the jury.

After watching every second of the trial I can't name something I'd want to watch less than that show lol

 

[NCTeacher]

After watching every second of the trial I can't name something I'd want to watch less than that show lol

You know I'm gonna watch it, lol. It's like a train wreck, I don't want to--I know I'll get pissed off watching it, but I won't be able to keep myself from watching

 

[monkeypants]

You know I'm gonna watch it, lol. It's like a train wreck, I don't want to--I know I'll get pissed off watching it, but I won't be able to keep myself from watching

lol I know you will!

I'm old now, I've learned my aggravation limits....it will just make me crazy

 

[NCTeacher]

:loveyou:For those of you interested, the Tuscaloosa Memorial Park announced on Friday that the 1800.00 needed for Cooper's grave marker has been paid in full! Lots of great people contributed to make this happen for Cooper's memorial and it's a cause to which I was personally dedicated. In fact, I know of one person who sent in 1000.00, which is phenomenal. As far as I know, no family members contributed to the fund---it was pushed by a group on facebook set on properly memorializing Cooper. The marker is a footstone with a vase, apparently the owner of Cooper's plot has not paid for all of the plots (or plot) at the cemetery and until that is done he can't have a headstone placed. Anywho, it is fantastic that the production of his footstone will be taking place in the next few weeks and hopefully will be placed by Easter. It was a longtime coming, Cooper has been deceased for nearly 2 1/2 years.

 

[monkeypants]

:loveyou:For those of you interested, the Tuscaloosa Memorial Park announced on Friday that the 1800.00 needed for Cooper's grave marker has been paid in full! Lots of great people contributed to make this happen for Cooper's memorial and it's a cause to which I was personally dedicated. In fact, I know of one person who sent in 1000.00, which is phenomenal. As far as I know, no family members contributed to the fund---it was pushed by a group on facebook set on properly memorializing Cooper. The marker is a footstone with a vase, apparently the owner of Cooper's plot has not paid for all of the plots (or plot) at the cemetery and until that is done he can't have a headstone placed. Anywho, it is fantastic that the production of his footstone will be taking place in the next few weeks and hopefully will be placed by Easter. It was a longtime coming, Cooper has been deceased for nearly 2 1/2 years.

Congrats that's wonderful!!!

But not gonna lie, it makes me sick to my stomach knowing it was all strangers. What is wrong with that family......

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Congrats that's wonderful!!!

But not gonna lie, it makes me sick to my stomach knowing it was all strangers. What is wrong with that family......

Obviously, a LOT. :sick:

 

[NCTeacher]

Congrats that's wonderful!!!

But not gonna lie, it makes me sick to my stomach knowing it was all strangers. What is wrong with that family......

I know...I agree.

I wasn't able to send much---$125 in all, but I sent every dime I could spare. I could've sent more if I didn't make the trek to Atlanta back in December, but I felt being there was just as (if not more) important. When you step back and consider that I am a stranger--never once in my lifetime met Cooper (same is true for the person who sent 1000), it really puts things into perspective. So many of the family and friends like to criticize naysayers saying "you never knew Cooper, you don't know Ross." I want to say "You knew Cooper! What have you done for him in all this? Weren't you suppose to love him? Why does it seem random strangers loved him more than you??"