Prosecutor Juan Martinez releases new book, February 2016 - #2

[TrialWatcher]

It makes me question whether Knurmi or Jennifer Wildebeest ever warned their witnesses not to mince words with Juan. Great lawyers that they are... probably not! lol

I've wondered about that too. They should have started with Arias. One of the funniest moments was when she finished her woeful, victim-almost-virginal Mormon act - led and coached by Nurmi. Days of her droning on, soft voice, testifying nonsense. First minutes of Juan crossing and she boasts about how great the sex was. The camera shifts to Nurmi - who had built his defense on how Travis had pushed her into sex. Juan mentions this section in his book. She is so smug and arrogant, not realising she just smashed her own defense efforts.

 

[GigiG]

I saw that question asked about the X-Ray - was it Jen's Trial Diaries? That was the best interview I've yet seen. He said that they could have asked for a medical examination but didn't learn until quite late that she would allege Travis broke it. This might be one for the excellent lawyers on the forum, re appeals or new trial evidence. Have you seen the ask the lawyers section? It might be worth posting there too.

BBM

That was a great interview! I loved how loose and funny he was at the end. IIRC, when Jen said "one last question," he said, "Yes, I am six feet tall." Then when they had the drawing, he joked about it being for a copy of the book? And not to go on vacation with him?

His quick mind and self-deprecating humor are really endearing traits...

 

[TexMex]

TexMex:

That's why I like this forum. No matter how much you think you know, someone always knows ten times more or has a faster, clearer recall - meaning that looking things up is not always a necessary chore. We can all disagree on theories, have different opinions but that fast access to evidence is unrivalled.

Lol. I wish I had as much recall of the evidence as I had during the trial. I'd almost pushed it out of my head then Martinez book comes out.

 

[Hope4More]

I specified the 80,000 was total communications.

There absolutely was communication between them post May 26...all the way up to June 3.

On May 30 she texts him. Hey, I saw I missed your call. I'm at work. Let's talk tonight.

There are more texts after that, some of which refer to setting up further phone communication

We do not know if he apologized or not in one of the calls.

The photos they took for whatever purposes suggest that, in fact, Travis had fallen back into the pattern of anger then forgiveness and friendship (with benefits).

June 2, 2008:


Phone records show several calls between Arias and Alexander in the early morning hours:

Arias called Alexander four times between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m.

These calls were all very short, the longest 17 seconds.

Alexander called Arias twice during the 3 a.m. hour:

The first call was just under 18 minutes,

the second about 41 minutes.

Arias called Travis at 4:03 a.m. The call lasted 2 minutes, 48 seconds.


June 3


A 17-second call at 12:57 p.m.

A 2-minute, 50-second call at 1:51 pm

At 8:16 p.m., Arias calls Alexander. The call lasted 2 minutes, 9 seconds.


At 8:34 p.m., Arias calls Alexander again and the call lasts 49 seconds

She'd manipulated him into communicating again and instead of calling the police when she arrived they tragically went upstairs.

I wish I could post those few texts from after May 26.

Because she said she missed his call doesn't mean he actually called her. If you look at those few texts it is obvious she's trying to make it look like everything was still normal between them, just as she did in her journal. (Hey, he was so rude on the 26th and then we had make up phone sex!). And in her VM after killing him...(hey! Can't wait to see you in Yreka).

She THOUGHT about all this ahead of time. She knew it would look bad if the reality of the break was obvious, as in....no texts exchanged between the two of them from May 26 on.

The photos...nope.

The phone calls. Yes..one long one (brief interruption) morning of June 2, as I said.

The other calls....all made by her, no indication he picked up, almost certainly were VM's she left for him, which is why it took her 17-18 minutes of listening to his VM's after killing him, to make sure they were all erased.

From what you are saying you seem to be suggesting you think he knew she was coming? She was checking in along the way? Totally don't believe that for a minute.

 

[Hope4More]

You've misunderstood. I said a few days ago (?) that I had reconsidered and do believe they had sex that day.


OK, I see that your theory has changed to that they did have sex that day, perhaps for 'insurance' purposes. He had to be aroused just to have the sex. All the claims about him not being aroused didn't make sense - especially when they defied the photographic evidence and Juan asserting otherwise.

Whatever reasons they had sex can't be proven. I felt strongly that Juan did enough in court to prove they had sex. So did the jury. That's why I have countered the arguments otherwise.

The non-arousal comments I've seen are about a single photo of that poor man where he is.....clearly not.

Not interested at all in an extended discussion about various kinds and degrees of TA's arousal that day, but will just this. Even some rape victims report becoming aroused while being raped, which BTW obviously can greatly increase of feelings of confusion and self-blame, etc. Point being, physical arousal is mechanical, especially for men, and says very little if anything about state of mind.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Juan Martinez details that Travis was aroused in one of the pics. He states so in his book. The pic of her seconds before indicate sexual interaction - all the pics do. They are time stamped (exceptions sequentially sensible) and date stamped. Neither prosecution or defense dispute sexual contact took place. Yet some here are disputing the very evidence that got her convicted. Everyone is entitled to theories but in face of very strong evidence, the no sex one doesn't stack up.

I have my opinion, and am sticking with it. NO SEX! One person or a hundred is not going to come on here and change how I feel. You say sex, I say no sex. Agree to disagree I guess. I watched the trial, I have read the book. I am aware that Juan may have felt there was sex.. I don't. Possibly there were pics of them in the act, we don't know and that could be why Juan says it.

 

[Hope4More]

Hope4More:
"8. The only time he spoke with her between May 26 and June 2 is on the morning of June 2 after she had tried incessantly for hours, and I suspect the only reason he did then was she said she had something she needed to tell him and he assumed it was related to whatever she was holding over his head."

The pattern is broken right here. Above. Your theory that he would have nothing more to do with her barely lasted seven days, from your reply. There was no room to judge for how long (or if) he would banish Arias for because she slaughtered him days later. TexMex points out that he usually forgave her. Even after strongly suspecting she slashed his tires - he gave in to sex.

On June 4, regardless of the intensity and nastiness of the argument in May the prosecution evidence showed Travis had sex with her. So, within eight days of his resolution, he broke it - for whatever reasons. Do I think he wanted anything to do with her beyond June 4? No. The sex session was a goodbye. He thought she was moving on to Ryan Burns and that they had ended things in a more civilised way. That is merely my opinion, nothing more. I don't think anyone is misrepresenting what you are saying. Some disagree with some of your posts, agree with others. Seems very fair to me.

I was replying to the " single chat" vs pattern post, which was indeed a misrepresentation of what I said.

I've been posting and discussing here about May 26 and afterwards for going on 2 years now, including bringing over paraphrased texts from BK for May and June...well, all of them.


I've changed my mind and theories a hundred times, unapologetically, and might well again. There probably isn't a single opinion being posted now that I didn't hold at one point or another, so meh, doesn't bother me whether or not anyone agrees with my current opinion or not, but yes, I do prefer to have my current opinion accurately described if it is being discussed.

The reason I thought for awhile (and still can be convinced) that they did not have sex is because I'm as sure as it is possible to be--based on a whole of analysis of all available evidence, not idle opinion, of TA 's state of mind on June 4.

That a bunch of first rate sleuthing minds here are convinced they did not have sex on the 4th is reason enough for me to consider that possibility seriously. That JM says they did, given what his focus was and wasn't, isn't a definitive answer, IMO.

Beyond that.....wait for me, CayleeA et al!!

 

[Hope4More]

I have my opinion, and am sticking with it. NO SEX! One person or a hundred is not going to come on here and change how I feel. You say sex, I say no sex. Agree to disagree I guess. I watched the trial, I have read the book. I am aware that Juan may have felt there was sex.. I don't. Possibly there were pics of them in the act, we don't know and that could be why Juan says it.

There were no other sex photos. And no video taken that day on his camera, which was part of an explanation, if I recall, why so much data file info from deleted photos was lost.

 

[Wing Ding]

A few minutes later he used the same picture against her

She had testified the pic was taken in May. He asked her to recall that testimony then showed her that her left ring finger he had her display to the jury again was perfectly fine and could have not been injured by Travis in January as she had testified to on direct. That the injury had to have been from June 4. He also played back her Flores interrogation where she said the female ninja had cut her hand during a struggle

The guy is good

He is very good. But JA certainly gave Juan a run for his money. Thankfully she was smacked down at nearly every turn. It took him five minutes (minus any sidebars) just to get her to concede something as minor as she hadn't written anything in her stupid journal for four calendar days.

Regarding that photo of JA and her dumb (and stupid) sister, Angela... when Juan challenged her that her left ring finger wasn't bent in that May photo (as it was when she held her hand up for the jury to see that same bent finger), she argued that her left ring finger was bent in the photo. And, of course, she was right. Her finger is bent in the photo. It appeared bent in the photo (as did all the other fingers on her left hand) because her hand was draped over Angela's left shoulder. It just wasn't bent because she deflected one of Travis' kicks with her left hand and broke it four months earlier as she claimed. So even when battling over a bent finger... she may not be right, but she's never wrong.

Oh well, I'm off to go to the hardware store. And then maybe get a haircut.

 

[Wing Ding]

Lol. I wish I had as much recall of the evidence as I had during the trial. I'd almost pushed it out of my head then Martinez book comes out.

View attachment 89897

[Sidebar] TexMex, what movie is that meme from that you posted? I know that's a George Costanza line on Seinfeld... is that movie where the line came from? [/sidebar]

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I was replying to the " single chat" vs pattern post, which was indeed a misrepresentation of what I said.

I've been posting and discussing here about May 26 and afterwards for going on 2 years now, including bringing over paraphrased texts from BK for May and June...well, all of them.


I've changed my mind and theories a hundred times, unapologetically, and might well again. There probably isn't a single opinion being posted now that I didn't hold at one point or another, so meh, doesn't bother me whether or not anyone agrees with my current opinion or not, but yes, I do prefer to have my current opinion accurately described if it is being discussed.

Beyond that.....wait for me, CayleeA et al!!

In the words of Sarah Palin...You Betcha'. I for one appreciate everyone's opinion, I am just vocal when it comes to week long bantering about who is right and who is wrong as NONE of us really know what happened that day. Really at this point does it even matter whether there was no sex, or sex and whether he was aroused or not? Travis is still dead and at peace now. The butcheress is locked in a cage for life, and hopefully she never feels at peace. With that, I am done discussing any sex.

I do want to say that Hope has taken us on a long journey through Textville,& Journalville, and I appreciate her devotion and endless hours of research in trying to figure this all out with us. I want to say thanks Hope.. :yourock:

Everyone has added their own little spin on things, and I feel we are all correct in spitting out how we have seen and interpreted the evidence as well as non evidence. :takeabow:

 

[TexMex]

I wish I could post those few texts from after May 26.

Because she said she missed his call doesn't mean he actually called her. If you look at those few texts it is obvious she's trying to make it look like everything was still normal between them, just as she did in her journal. (Hey, he was so rude on the 26th and then we had make up phone sex!). And in her VM after killing him...(hey! Can't wait to see you in Yreka).

She THOUGHT about all this ahead of time. She knew it would look bad if the reality of the break was obvious, as in....no texts exchanged between the two of them from May 26 on.

The photos...nope.

The phone calls. Yes..one long one (brief interruption) morning of June 2, as I said.

The other calls....all made by her, no indication he picked up, almost certainly were VM's she left for him, which is why it took her 17-18 minutes of listening to his VM's after killing him, to make sure they were all erased.

From what you are saying you seem to be suggesting you think he knew she was coming? She was checking in along the way? Totally don't believe that for a minute.

I did look at the (18 texts I think). I do think he tried to call her on May 30. She was trying to keep him off guard with texts about pics etc. Why fight with him and get him mad again when she's on a mission to worm her way into his house and kill him? IMO she apologized again over the phone. Travis, being a nice guy, realized some of the things he'd said were hurtful and per his religion (forgive 7 times 70) forgave her.

I don't really know if he was expecting her. But they talked for 59 minutes when she was on her way when he called her.
The photos prove he let his guard down once again. Pattern.

 

[TexMex]

[Sidebar] TexMex, what movie is that meme from that you posted? I know that's a George Costanza line on Seinfeld... is that movie where the line came from? [/sidebar]

Yes. Godfather Part II

 

[GigiG]

In the words of Sarah Palin...You Betcha'. I for one appreciate everyone's opinion, I am just vocal when it comes to week long bantering about who is right and who is wrong as NONE of us really know what happened that day. Really at this point does it even matter whether there was no sex, or sex and whether he was aroused or not? Travis is still dead and at peace now. The butcheress is locked in a cage for life, and hopefully she never feels at peace. With that, I am done discussing any sex.

I do want to say that Hope has taken us on a long journey through Textville,& Journalville, and I appreciate her devotion and endless hours of research in trying to figure this all out with us. I want to say thanks Hope.. :yourock:

Everyone has added their own little spin on things, and I feel we are all correct in spitting out how we have seen and interpreted the evidence as well as non evidence. :takeabow:

Oh behalf of everyone who still had sooo many questions long after the trials were over, I, too, want to express my appreciation to all the posters who spent time and attention on this case after the fact. Thanks, all!

 

[TexMex]

There were no other sex photos. And no video taken that day on his camera, which was part of an explanation, if I recall, why so much data file info from deleted photos was lost.

We do not know for certain there was no video. She has claimed it was taken on his camera. Then later she claimed it was taken, viewed then deleted on her Olympus.
Melendez says video files are almost impossible to recover once deleted because they take up so much space
The time/date was not available on two sex pics was because it was overridden by the shower and accidental pics per Melendez.

 

[pocketaccent]

I didn't see it either. I also think JM misinterpreted what was happening in the Flores interrogation when the said they'd done a video that day. JM writes-- wow, she told us something LE didn't even know! And the only explanation he could think of was that she and Flores had "shared a moment.

The other explanation is that the had been settting up that tied to a tree video story since the last week of April, and when confronted with the pics, saw an opportunity to stir it into her lies.
There was no video.

I'm getting the sense that JM didn't investigate very far into possible forged/manufactured electronic evidence. He didn't even examine the Helio until after the trial, so couldn't have been trying to figure out if the sex tape was spliced or what emails/texts he might have sent to herself in TA's name.

It worked just fine for JM to run with sex on June 4, and when Flores saw the pics first and showed them to JM, and even after the interrogation, neither had the slightest clue the lengths she'd gone to all along to create a false electronic trail.

I entirely understand, CayleeA, that you don't believe they had sex that day, and why. The photo evidence is not 100% conclusive, no matter the assertions otherwise.

And IMO it is a misreading both of the evidence and of what can be known about TA to think he reacted to his despised stalker surprising him in his own house by shrugging his shoulders and saying- hey, why not?

BBM
I absolutely agree he didn't investigate very far. It was his choice and strategy not to and I applaud and respect his decision.

Reading his book, I sensed that the one extra gas can was the most damning piece of evidence to him to prove premeditation. He did all the calculations proving JA needed the extra can for her murder trip, but he didn't even need to expound on it. Instead he chose to induce JA to lie. A lie he can definitely prove with Chelsea Young's testimony. What a splendid strategy and sweet victory that was!

Re June 4th, I conclude it is impossible to figure out what exactly happened on that day without more information. ie, I would love it if Dworkin could re-examine T's memory card and tell us his opinion. I believe he is well trained in the area of electronic forensics.

Listening to various interviews, I heard at least a couple times when asked about details, JM said- Well, we can ask JA what happened, but can we believe her?

I think JM is not interested in digging into fine details like we are here because to him, what he presented in the courtroom was more than enough to convict JA.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

There were no other sex photos. And no video taken that day on his camera, which was part of an explanation, if I recall, why so much data file info from deleted photos was lost.

But wasn't there some pics that were not used in the trial? Not saying they were "nudes", but IIRC, more pics were retrieved.

 

[GigiG]

BBM
I absolutely agree he didn't investigate very far. It was his choice and strategy not to and I applaud and respect his decision.

Reading his book, I sensed that the one extra gas can was the most damning piece of evidence to him to prove premeditation. He did all the calculations proving JA needed the extra can for her murder trip, but he didn't even need to expound on it. Instead he chose to induce JA to lie. A lie he can definitely prove with Chelsea Young's testimony. What a splendid strategy and sweet victory that was!

Re June 4th, I conclude it is impossible to figure out what exactly happened on that day without more information. ie, I would love it if Dworkin could re-examine T's memory card and tell us his opinion. I believe he is well trained in the area of electronic forensics.

Listening to various interviews, I heard at least a couple times when asked about details, JM said- Well, we can ask JA what happened, but can we believe her?

I think JM is not interested in digging into fine details like we are here because to him, what he presented in the courtroom was more than enough to convict JA.

BBM

And that's really all he cared about. How stupid would it have been of him to get caught up in the weeds with Arias? He saw that trap for what it was and kept clear of giving her any further opportunity to manipulate things.

She kept adding superfluous information (lies), and he did a fine job of keeping the questioning on-track.

Not to say the back-and-forth about what the ABSOLUTE truths of the matter are aren't interesting for us to consider, but I get why JM wanted no part in letting speculation cloud matters even further...

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Okay Tex, I'm hungry so what's for dinner?

 

[TexMex]

Okay Tex, I'm hungry so what's for dinner?

Crawfish and lots of beer, all afternoon