Questions for our VERIFIED LAWYERS*~*~*NO DISCUSSIONS*~*~*

I have a question that someone answered but I am not sure they were a lawyer. If TH doesn't contest the RO she can't see her baby for a year. Can she still go to family court for the divorce and ask for custody or visitation? I heard that family court will abide by the RO and not change the parenting time.

Eta, I just read this:
On Tuesday, a judge consolidated the restraining order and divorce into one case.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html

Does that change the way things are done with the parenting time? So even if TH doesn't contest the terms of the restraining order she can still ask for parenting time in the divorce? Does this make sense?
 
On the off chance that Terri is never charged with Kyron's disappearance could Terri sue anyone like the Youngs for statements they had made to the media about her alleged involvement in the crime?

Thanks!!
 
I have a question that someone answered but I am not sure they were a lawyer.

IANAL :) but here's a listing of the verified professionals:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4902946&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Professional Posters[/ame]
 
The amended order (if thats what it's called...lol thats why I rely on you professionals) it states that the only persons or entities allowed access to the court files are as follows: 1)Oregon courts and court staff 2)any governmental agency, 3) the parties (KAH and TMH) 4) The attorney of record for the respondent and 5)the law firm of ____________ or the attorney of record for petitioner.

So hypothertically if KH showed the order to DY or anyone else, would he be subject to the same sanctions?

Or not, because he was the petitioner and he and baby K were considered to be the ones at risk.

TIA
 
That would probably work. I think he would rather have his return be calm and noneventful, however, for the sake of the baby.

I'm assuming the order works both ways judging by remarks made by DY and KH in an interview.(something along the lines of them not being able to ask TH any questions because of the RO)

So if KH came within X feet of TH, would he be violating the order?

What if they by pure coincidence both happen to be at the same grocery store at the same time?
What happens then?

If they are not in contact, but know to stay away from the others residence, how can they avoid someone when they don't known their movements?


TIA again. You guys are the best!
 
I have a question that someone answered but I am not sure they were a lawyer. If TH doesn't contest the RO she can't see her baby for a year. Can she still go to family court for the divorce and ask for custody or visitation? I heard that family court will abide by the RO and not change the parenting time.

Eta, I just read this:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html

Does that change the way things are done with the parenting time? So even if TH doesn't contest the terms of the restraining order she can still ask for parenting time in the divorce? Does this make sense?

Now that the matters are consolidated, everything should be simpler. The RO is only for a limited time anyway, and certainly does not preclude TH from arguing long-term custody and visitation. If the court determines that visitation/custody with TH is appropriate, the RO will simply be vacated in part or amended to be consistent with the divorce court orders.

On the off chance that Terri is never charged with Kyron's disappearance could Terri sue anyone like the Youngs for statements they had made to the media about her alleged involvement in the crime?

Thanks!!

It would depend on exactly which statements you're talking about. It would have to be a statement of FACT rather than OPINION, it would have to be FALSE, and there would have to be some level of carelessness on the part of the Youngs as to the truth of the statements they made. And of course TH would have to be able to PROVE that the things they said were false.

The amended order (if thats what it's called...lol thats why I rely on you professionals) it states that the only persons or entities allowed access to the court files are as follows: 1)Oregon courts and court staff 2)any governmental agency, 3) the parties (KAH and TMH) 4) The attorney of record for the respondent and 5)the law firm of ____________ or the attorney of record for petitioner.

So hypothertically if KH showed the order to DY or anyone else, would he be subject to the same sanctions?

Or not, because he was the petitioner and he and baby K were considered to be the ones at risk.

TIA

The order said that "neither party" could disclose the application or the basis for the order to anyone else. But KH certainly could have, and probably did, disclose that information to DY before the order was issued.

I'm assuming the order works both ways judging by remarks made by DY and KH in an interview.(something along the lines of them not being able to ask TH any questions because of the RO)

So if KH came within X feet of TH, would he be violating the order?

What if they by pure coincidence both happen to be at the same grocery store at the same time?
What happens then?

If they are not in contact, but know to stay away from the others residence, how can they avoid someone when they don't known their movements?


TIA again. You guys are the best!

The order is only against TH. However, the Court would be seriously ticked off if KH chased her around trying to put her in violation of the order.

If they happened to be at the grocery store at the same time, TH would have to leave as soon as she became aware that KH was within 500 feet of her.
 
For our verified lawyers I NEED to know the answer to just one question...

Today did Terri Moulton Horman terminate her parental rights to baby K? And if she did NOT then exactly what did she do?

TIA so much to those professionals that take the time for our questions it is very much appreciated.
 
Oregon is NOT a community property state.

My question is this:

Can LE add a tracking device to TH's car if Kaine is on the title and gives them permission?
 
Now that the matters are consolidated, everything should be simpler. The RO is only for a limited time anyway, and certainly does not preclude TH from arguing long-term custody and visitation. If the court determines that visitation/custody with TH is appropriate, the RO will simply be vacated in part or amended to be consistent with the divorce court orders.



It would depend on exactly which statements you're talking about. It would have to be a statement of FACT rather than OPINION, it would have to be FALSE, and there would have to be some level of carelessness on the part of the Youngs as to the truth of the statements they made. And of course TH would have to be able to PROVE that the things they said were false.



The order said that "neither party" could disclose the application or the basis for the order to anyone else. But KH certainly could have, and probably did, disclose that information to DY before the order was issued.



The order is only against TH. However, the Court would be seriously ticked off if KH chased her around trying to put her in violation of the order.

If they happened to be at the grocery store at the same time, TH would have to leave as soon as she became aware that KH was within 500 feet of her.

According to the RO, if Kaine believes Terri is there, HE must leave, or HE will be violating the RO. He cannot knowingly force a showdown which would effectively act as harassment of Terri's right to freedom to be where she has every right to be.
 
Question. In the motion for contempt, it seems to me that all the allegations of any sexual affair, the details of sexting, pictures, etc., serve no purpose but to further assassinate the character of Terri Horman; as well as stating information that LE allegedly told them regarding the similarities of the conversations between TH and MC being the same as in the alleged murder for hire.

Stating the details of the alleged contempt, when showing MC the RO would seem to be all that is needed. Also, I don't see the point of detailing her (TH's) visit to the gym to inquire about her husband and daughter, at that point she had not been served with divorce papers or RO. At that point, she was a mother looking for her child that her husband had snatched from the marital home without her persmission.

Question is - 1) what purpose does the information about the gym visit serve?
2) When TH retains counsel for the domestic issues, or if the current attorney is handling the RO issues, can they ask for sanctions against Petitioner and his counsel for the unnecessary character attack? TIA

AZlawyer answered this I think. I'd like to elaborate. The fact that TH may have tried to sneak the baby away from Kaine, by asking the gym staff to alert her when the baby was there (while not contempt if done before being served), would be something I would use in court papers to show her state of mind/behavior. I would use that to show the court the way she operates and to argue that she is someone who may be at risk of kidnapping. This is because the alternative is to confront Kaine and demand the baby, or to seek court orders herself, granting her custody of the baby. The fact that she instead wanted to surreptitiously take the baby when Kaine was unaware, would be a fact I would use to show that she does not operate above-board. The court may simply see that behavior as game playing in the context of a domestic custody dispute, but in context with Kyron's disappearance, it could be beneficial information for the court to know and I would certainly use it.
I have a question that someone answered but I am not sure they were a lawyer. If TH doesn't contest the RO she can't see her baby for a year. Can she still go to family court for the divorce and ask for custody or visitation? I heard that family court will abide by the RO and not change the parenting time.

Eta, I just read this:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html

Does that change the way things are done with the parenting time? So even if TH doesn't contest the terms of the restraining order she can still ask for parenting time in the divorce? Does this make sense?

In CA, even if consolidated, if a person fails to contest an RO and any requested orders in it that pertain to custody, they could not file a new action in the context of the dissolution action as a means of vacating or superceding the child custody orders in the DV case. In any case, DV, disso or guardianship, one can file a motion to modify custody orders that were issued, but one must have a good reason why those orders should be changed. In CA, the standard is "a substantial change in circumstances such that the custody orders should be modified". A substantial change would not be that one changed his or her mind. They could state that now they are in a better position to have custody, such as they just moved closer, but they would have to otherwise show that a modification is in the child's best interest.
Further, the reasons for the prior orders would bear on any modification. Also, the status quo as created by the orders the party wants to modify, would come into play and make it more difficult to obtain a modification.
In this case, TH cannot use the dissolution case as a means of bypassing the allegations in the RO petition. She would have to address those allegations in order to modify the current court orders.
Finally, although ROs do not last forever (in CA they can be from one to five years), once you obtain an RO and other associated court orders, at the regularly scheduled hearing on the RO (not the ex parte hearing), those orders are considered "permanent" orders, not temporary, even though they do not continue past the term of the RO.
The protected party would generally seek child custody court orders in connection with a divorce or paternity action, that mirror those issued in connection with the RO, so that there are custody orders lasting past the life of the RO.
In CA, there is a legal presumption that a person found by the court to have committed DV, should not have sole or joint legal or physical custody of a child. Thus, not contesting a RO application could be fatal to a parent who wants to have some sort of significant custodial time with their child. The basis for the RO child custody orders does not disappear when the RO ends.

For our verified lawyers I NEED to know the answer to just one question...

Today did Terri Moulton Horman terminate her parental rights to baby K? And if she did NOT then exactly what did she do?

TIA so much to those professionals that take the time for our questions it is very much appreciated.

TH did not terminate her parental rights. She gave up custodial rights today, meaning she does not have joint or sole legal or physical custody of her child or visitation rights. She can always go back into court to change the current court orders but those orders create a status quo and set a precedent that makes a modification of the orders tricky. She would have to answer the allegations in the RO if she wanted to modify and otherwise have a good reason why the court orders are no longer in the best interest of her child.
 
The RO states she cannot intimidate, molest, interfere or menace Kaine directly or through third parties; but the part where she is specifically instructed to remain 500 feet from him and 150 feet from certain places (his home, job, the gym) does not mention 3rd parties. Would it be a violation of the RO if she were to get a friend to drive by his home, go to the gym, or his place of employment? For example, what if a friend *just happened* to join Kaine's gym? What about friends who already belong to the gym? Would they have to leave when Kaine arrived?

Would any of this fall into the category of menacing, etc. by third party? I ask because they are listed as separate orders. What if a friend did this on their own without Terri asking them to do so? Would Kaine have to prove she knew what they were doing?

I guess I'm asking how much of the order can be applied to her family or friends being near Kaine or baby --- even if Terri isn't involved with them being there --- as the risk exists that they will provide info to Terri regarding his movements and whereabouts.

(hope this makes sense; I haven't slept today)
 
The RO states she cannot intimidate, molest, interfere or menace Kaine directly or through third parties; but the part where she is specifically instructed to remain 500 feet from him and 150 feet from certain places (his home, job, the gym) does not mention 3rd parties. Would it be a violation of the RO if she were to get a friend to drive by his home, go to the gym, or his place of employment? For example, what if a friend *just happened* to join Kaine's gym? What about friends who already belong to the gym? Would they have to leave when Kaine arrived?

Would any of this fall into the category of menacing, etc. by third party? I ask because they are listed as separate orders. What if a friend did this on their own without Terri asking them to do so? Would Kaine have to prove she knew what they were doing?

I guess I'm asking how much of the order can be applied to her family or friends being near Kaine or baby --- even if Terri isn't involved with them being there --- as the risk exists that they will provide info to Terri regarding his movements and whereabouts.

(hope this makes sense; I haven't slept today)

A lot of this is left up to the interpretation and discretion of the judge. IMO, any judge would find it intimidating if TH asked someone to follow Kaine around. But the only person the judge could take any action against for violating the order would be TH, so there's not much anyone can do if a third party decides to follow Kaine around on hisown--except get a new RO against any that person, if the requirements can be met.
 
A lot of this is left up to the interpretation and discretion of the judge. IMO, any judge would find it intimidating if TH asked someone to follow Kaine around. But the only person the judge could take any action against for violating the order would be TH, so there's not much anyone can do if a third party decides to follow Kaine around on hisown--except get a new RO against any that person, if the requirements can be met.

Regarding the gym scenario, it's probably safe to say that Terri has friends who have memberships there too. Assuming Terri did NOT ask them to 'spy' on Kaine, then he wouldn't have any say regarding their presence? Even if he suspected they were providing information to Terri? Also, could Terri be held in violation of the order if others give her unsolicited information on Kaine and baby?
 
Wondering if LE need a warrant to put GPS on a car for tracking? If not, is there criteria used to decide who gets a GPS? TIA

Thanks again to all who have kindly answered our legal questions! :blowkiss:
 
Wondering if LE need a warrant to put GPS on a car for tracking? If not, is there criteria used to decide who gets a GPS? TIA

Thanks again to all who have kindly answered our legal questions! :blowkiss:

Who would have to give permission if there was no warrant issued? IOW, the car was a gift to Terri so it belongs to her, but if Kaine's name is on the title (or loan) does that give him the right to allow LE to plant such a device?
 
Regarding the gym scenario, it's probably safe to say that Terri has friends who have memberships there too. Assuming Terri did NOT ask them to 'spy' on Kaine, then he wouldn't have any say regarding their presence? Even if he suspected they were providing information to Terri? Also, could Terri be held in violation of the order if others give her unsolicited information on Kaine and baby?

TH is not barred from knowing things about Kaine, and her friends are not defendants in the case, so the judge could not do anything about her friends reporting back to her.

Wondering if LE need a warrant to put GPS on a car for tracking? If not, is there criteria used to decide who gets a GPS? TIA

Thanks again to all who have kindly answered our legal questions! :blowkiss:

Yes, they would need a warrant or consent.

Who would have to give permission if there was no warrant issued? IOW, the car was a gift to Terri so it belongs to her, but if Kaine's name is on the title (or loan) does that give him the right to allow LE to plant such a device?

If Kaine is on the title, he should be able to give consent.
 
1. What does it mean when a person says, "We have been BRIEFED" by Law Enforcement?

I am asking because it was stated in a post today that Kaine and Desiree being briefed by LE means that they are not being told very much at all. (Not the poster's exact words).

2. Is there a standard legal definition of "briefing?"

3. Could this couple, whose son is missing in a very high-profile case, state that they have been "briefed" by LE, and this is what they base their assertions on, get away with lying? Meaning, wouldn't LE come out with a statement refuting them, if what they were telling the media was a lie?

Thanks in advance.
 
1. What does it mean when a person says, "We have been BRIEFED" by Law Enforcement?

I am asking because it was stated in a post today that Kaine and Desiree being briefed by LE means that they are not being told very much at all. (Not the poster's exact words).

2. Is there a standard legal definition of "briefing?"

3. Could this couple, whose son is missing in a very high-profile case, state that they have been "briefed" by LE, and this is what they base their assertions on, get away with lying? Meaning, wouldn't LE come out with a statement refuting them, if what they were telling the media was a lie?

Thanks in advance.

It just means LE is giving you info; they call it a "briefing" when they call you in for a meeting to give you information (rather than to get information from you). You certainly can't tell from the use of that word whether or not it was a very informative briefing.

I think, if KH and DY were lying about getting info at a briefing, then either (1) LE asked them to spread misinformation for some strategic reason, or (2) LE would privately tell KH and DY to correct their statements, and if KH and DY did not do so, then LE would do it for them.

In reading this article http://marinadedave.com/2010/07/09/frink-on-crime/ it apppears that with the RO A Family Law Notice Of Nondisclosure of CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION Form was also filed.

Does it mean that there is some information in the RO that hasn't been released?

Yes, but just the usual "confidential information"--should be things like Social Security numbers.
 
According to the following article, TH's defense team spent about 2 hours in the Horman home after TH moved and before KH and Baby K returned.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24301734/detail.html

Why would the defense team do this? Prevent planting of evidence? Other?

Thanks!
 

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