Questions for our VERIFIED LAWYERS*~*~*NO DISCUSSIONS*~*~*

[KikiWanBaniki]

RLynne,

Thanks so much for contributing your valuable skills to Zahra's discussion. I have had a nagging question ever since reading about the plea deal, and am hoping you'd be willing to offer your personal impressions/opinion:

Are you aware (via official records, anecdotally, or your own personal perceptions) of any DA's ever using a strategy of offering a plea deal to a suspect/defendant, pretty much knowing in advance that it would likely be thrown out due to a foreseen technicality, or nullifying behavior on the defendant's part? I know that in many professions, there are loophole approaches that are unofficial but frequently used 'tools of the trade'.

Do you think it's possible that the DA offered EB a deal because he wanted information from her, and was willing to take the gamble that she would engage in actions that would render it invalid? (Or perhaps even already had evidence he could use to that advantage later?)

NOTE: I want to make it very clear that I am asking for your personal opinions of whether anything like the above has ever happened, and/or, if you feel it could be possible in this specific situation.

Sincere thanks in advance for any insight you're willing to provide, and again, much appreciation for contributing to Zahra's cause.

 

[RLynne]

KikiWanBaniki: I think that would be pretty unethical on a DA's part. With that said...yeah, I think it happens (and I think both prosecutors and defendants sometimes enter into agreements without really intending to follow through).

eyes4crime: It's totally possible that AB has entered into some kind of agreement...but I kind of doubt it. If LE/prosecutors don't have enough on him to even arrest him at this point, there's not much to deal with. As to the other part of your question....hmmm. I'm not familiar with that sort of agreement, but don't know enough to rule it out.

 

[tlcya]

Given the potential multiple bigamy charges EB faces can you clear up for which marital unions bigamy charges might apply? We are all very confused as to which marriages would be considered legal ones and which ones would/could be considered bigamy? Below is a timeline and conversation regarding this confusion snipped from the bigamy charges thread. tia RLynne!

QUOTE tlcox

AP constructed its profile through interviews with former husbands, relatives and acquaintances, while also drawing on county documents including divorce records and marriage licences. The records show that when she married Mr Baker, in July 2008, she was already married to Jeffrey Allred (October 1997) and Aaron Young (August 1998). She divorced Mr Young a year after marrying Mr Baker, but her marriage to Mr Allred was never dissolved.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/zahras-s...204-1agut.html

their timeline (just to muddy waters a bit more)

Elisa Baker's marriage trail

Sept 14, 1985: married Jerry Allen Winkler, Lenoir, North Carolina.

Jan 29, 1986: Winkler marriage annulled.

Sept 5, 1987: married Joseph Proctor, Gaffney, South Carolina.

Feb 6, 1992: divorced from Proctor.

April 17, 1992: married Andrew Harris jnr, Gaffney, SC.

Feb 4, 1995: married Darrell Putnam, Gaffney, SC.

Dec 14, 1995: divorced from Harris.

Oct 3, 1997: married Jeffrey Allred, Lenoir, NC.; never legally dissolved.

Aug 8, 1998: married Aaron Young, Gaffney, SC.

Nov 22, 1999: Putnam marriage annulled.

July 8, 2008: married Adam Baker in Australia.

Aug 21, 2009: divorced from Young.

from this timeline, it would appear that you are correct MK, if the Putnam marriage of 95 wasn't anulled until December 99, then I would think her marriages to Allred and Young were not valid and therefore would think her marraige to Adam Baker was (since the above would invalidate her marriage to AY, there would be no need for a divorce since it was never a legal union to begin with). So I disagree with the text of the article based on their very own timeline, the article supposes that she was never divorced from Allred but based on their own timeline I see no need for one as the union wasn't a legal marriage in teh first place based on the lack of divorce/anullment from Putnam at the time.

arrggggggg This is a mess.

QUOTE Hickory Born

Just looked up the NC law on annulment.

http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/leg...riageAnnul.htm

Therefore, if an annulment declares the marriage never existed (Putman & Elisa), then her marriage to Jeffrey Allred would be legal. I feel a headache coming on!!!! BUT, since EB remarried before the annulment was granted, would this be applicable?

So once again I am confused.

 

[RLynne]

....

arrggggggg This is a mess.

...

I feel a headache coming on!!!!

...

So once again I am confused.

Me too! My internet access has been super spotty the past week or two, so I'm massively behind. And honestly, this whole thing reads like a law school exam questions.

Here's my best analysis, fwiw, after reading through the NC statutes on marriage, divorce, and bigamy. The marriage to Putnam was never a valid marriage, since she was still married to Harris at the time (the later annulment doesn't really matter, IMO. Since she wasn't able to marry at the time she married Putnam, she didn't really *need* the annulment, but it's sometimes a good idea to go ahead and get one in that sort of situation, just so the record is clear...ha.). (I base this on the NC statute on void marriages, which is here).

I *think* that means the marriage to Allred is valid (and seems to remain so). The marriages to AB and AY were never valid.

Now, as to bigamy charges: my understanding (again, I'm a bit behind on things) is that EY has been charged only with one count of bigamy, for her marriage to AB. I took at look at the statute for bigamy (here) . I think this is the relevant section:

Nothing contained in this section shall extend to any person marrying a second time, whose husband or wife shall have been continually absent from such person for the space of seven years then last past, and shall not have been known by such person to have been living within that time; nor to any person who at the time of such second marriage shall have been lawfully divorced from the bond of the first marriage; nor to any person whose former marriage shall have been declared void by the sentence of any court of competent jurisdiction.

My analysis of this is that if a marriage was declared void (e.g. annulled, not a divorce) then you can't charge someone with bigamy, even if they got married *before* the prior marriage was annulled (I would argue that the last segment, which deals with void marriages, does not have language that requires an annulment to be granted prior to a subsequent marriage, while the previous section, dealing with remarriage after divorce, does).

So, by my reasoning, she could be charged with bigamy only for her marriages to AY and AB. So why is she charged with bigamy only for her marriage to AB?

I can think of three possibilities:
1. I'm wrong in my analysis (e.g. maybe there's some case law or something out there that specifies that if a divorce is granted, even after the subsequent marriage, you can't charge someone with bigamy).
2. The DA is thinking that charging EB with bigamy for her marriage to AY would be questionable (for the reason above, or maybe there's some other reason I can't think of offhand).
3. The DA charged the most egregious example of bigamy, and is holding the other charge back for some sort of strategic reason.

Whew. What a mess.

Honestly, I was first going to just post an answer along the lines of "eh, not sure!" but then I got sucked into all the possibilities/analysis. I do tend to geek out about law questions, sometimes. Hopefully this is all somewhat clear. Again, this is all coming from someone without a background in NC law, so this really is just my opinion, not necessarily a legal opinion!

...aaaand....after writing all of this out, I just realized: a bunch of her marriages were in South Carolina, not North Carolina. I have no idea if that changes anything. Where it would affect my analysis is whether SC has a similar law that if you don't have the capacity to marry (e.g. you're already married, and you don't later get the first marriage annulled--because that would kick in between the Harris and Putnam marriages. Carp!

 

[RLynne]

Whew. I think I'm in the clear. SC Statute Section 20-1-80 states, I think, basically the same thing--if you are already married and haven't gotten a divorce from a previous marriage, then the marriage is automatically void. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t20c001.htm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Here is her marriage history and how I worked it out, in terms of legality. I can't for the life of me see where my reasoning is flawed.

married Jerry Winkler 85-86 (legal, annulled)
married Douglas Proctor 87-92 (legal)
married Andrew Harris 91-95 (not legal, since it overlaps marriage to Proctor)
married Wayne Putnam 94-99 (legal, since marriage to Harris was not valid, and she legally divorced Proctor in 92)
married Jeffery Allred 97-2000 (not legal, since marriage to Putnam was still vaild)
married Aaron Young 98-09 (not legal, since marriage to Putnam was still valid)
married Adam Baker in 2008 (legal, since she was legally divorced from Putnam in 99, and the marriages to Allred and Young were never valid.)

I hate to be a pain, Rlynn, but if you could point out where my error is in the above, it would be greatly appreciated, because I'm literally pulling my hair out over here.

 

[RLynne]

I *think* the Harris marriage was in 92, not 91, and therefore did not overlap the Procter marriage, meaning the Harris marriage was legal.

Man. She gets married a lot.

 

[Jacie Estes]

It has been reported that a man in England, KF, sent 10 thousand dollars to Elisa via her daughter. IF that money was for child *advertiser censored* pertaining to Zahra what agency would investigate, considering the England to US money transfer and the fact that Zahra was an Australian citizen? Interpol? FBI?

Thank you for your assistance.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I *think* the Harris marriage was in 92, not 91, and therefore did not overlap the Procter marriage, meaning the Harris marriage was legal.

Man. She gets married a lot.

Thank you.

Earlier reports had her marriage to Harris in 91, so that seems to be the source of the confusion.

Now I guess we have to decide which "report" to believe...91 or 92. Clear as mud, eh?

 

[RLynne]

It has been reported that a man in England, KF, sent 10 thousand dollars to Elisa via her daughter. IF that money was for child *advertiser censored* pertaining to Zahra what agency would investigate, considering the England to US money transfer and the fact that Zahra was an Australian citizen? Interpol? FBI?

Thank you for your assistance.

Honestly, I'm not sure. My best guess would be FBI, probably in conjunction with Interpol and British authorities.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Honestly, I'm not sure. My best guess would be FBI, probably in conjunction with Interpol and British authorities.

Thank you.

FYI, I found this link after posting the question, it pertains to an international
investigation of child *advertiser censored*:

http://public.shns.com/content/agen...ker-child-*advertiser censored*-investigation

Here are the lead partners in "Project Flicker," an international child *advertiser censored* dragnet that identified 30,000 purchasers in 132 countries, led to hundreds of convictions, put the criminal ring behind bars, and shut down 230 websites.
United States:
-- Child Exploitation Section, Cyber Crimes Center, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), U.S. Department of Homeland Security
-- Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section, U.S. Department of Justice
-- U.S. Attorneys office for the Northern District of Alabama
-- Innocent Images National Initiative, FBI
-- Various ICE, FBI and U.S. Attorneys offices around the country
International agencies:
-- International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL)
-- European Police Office (EUROPOL)
-- Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, United Kingdom
-- Metropolitan Police Service in London (Scotland Yard)
-- Postal and Communications Police Service, Italy
-- Australian Federal Police
-- Royal Canadian Mounted Police
-- Ministry of Interior, Republic of Belarus
-- Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ukraine
Source: Matt Dunn, Section Chief and Supervisory Special Agent, Child Exploitation Section of the Cyber Crimes Center, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

 

[Allusonz]

Could she then be technically charged in both SC and NC? thus only the one bigamy charge to date?


ETA: Thank you for all your answers and time!!!

What a mess is right

 

[tlcya]

I just wanted to thank you again, for offering your opinions on this case, I really appreciate it RLynn.

 

[westsidefox64]

Is dismembering a Corpse against the law in NC ? Im asking because if it cant be proven that Zahra was murdered or COD is determined to be natural im wondering if charges can and will be brought for the dismemberment. Im pretty sure its against the law to conceal a death but not so sure the dismemberment in itself will bring charges. Hope this makes sense and someone can answer it. TIA

 

[Aedrys]

Do Grand Juries make decisions purely based on law alone? I ask because it floors me that they wouldn't think dismemberment doesn't show premeditation. I would think the act itself is evidence of premeditiation - no one decides on the spur of the moment to dismember a body, IMO. And honestly, with the description of what happened to her - she was dismembered for crying out loud, why couldn't the DA get any higher than second degree murder? I don't understand the confusion surrounding this. Is it the law that makes this so confusing, that doesn't allow for interpretation of the facts? Are they needing the dang murder weapon to get to murder one? Or was some kind of deal struck before the GJ handed down anything, so all they could consider was up to murder in the second degree? I just don't want to see this monster ever get out of jail, and there's the possibility of parole with murder in the second degree - that terrifies me!

 

[Marsha]

Does anyone know why the charges against EB are second degree murder and not 1st degree murder? It seems with the aggrevating circumstances it would for sure be 1st degree.

Oops, sorry, Aedrys......I hadn't read your entire post before posting mine.

 

[Hickory Born]

IF it is proven there was kiddie *advertiser censored*, will the charges be made by the FBI versus local or state?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

At the bottom of this news report http://www.live5news.com/Global/story.asp?S=14067437 is the following comment made in reference to Adam Baker's interview on Australia's 60 Minutes:

Because of ongoing legal issues here in the U.S., WBTV is not able to provide a full transcript, or the full video, of the interview.

I have never seen a statement like that from a news agency. Can one of our legal eagles shed any light on what these "legal issues" might be? To be more specific, I guess I am inquiring as to whether these legal issues pertain to the station itself, or is this a reference to the murder investigation?

(Sorry if this is a dense question. I'm just completely confused by the whole thing.)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

From everything I have read, the state of NC views step parents as "legal strangers" (except in cases of legal adoption). Would a step parent (one who didn't adopt a child) have any legal right to enroll or withdraw a child from school without the custodial parent's consent? And if not, doesn't the school have a legal obligation to ensure that only a legal, custodial parent be permitted to do this?

Also, in cases where reports of child abuse are being investigated, wouldn't the agency conducting the investigation be obligated, by law, to notify the legal custodial parent in every instance where a report of abuse was made?

 

[tiredblondy]

FYI I absolutely believe he knew about the abuse. Didn't one of EB's daughters say she observed him ignoring it when it was happening? That's what I don't understand???? They could certainly get him on child abuse and neglect.