Raven Says . . .

[mysteriew]

Why would she have cramps when she was pregnant? She didn't have a miscarriage according to what I've read.

That is just the point. Now that we know she was pregnant, we know she probably wasn't in that position due to cramps. But someone who was trying to reason away the position, might have used that as the excuse. But didn't think far enough ahead to realize that her pregnancy would be picked up in the autopsy.
Either that or they (or he) hadn't realized she was pregnant yet (it was still early, and they could have just been thinking she was "late"). Being that early in pregnancy- we don't really know for sure that they had realized she was pregnant yet. Some women know right away. Me I was always irregular, and didn't really try to keep track. So both times I was a couple of months along before I realized I was pregnant.
One possibility is that Janet had just found out, told Raven that night, he went to the game and thought about it. Then went home and...........
Since he had just found out, he might not have realized it would be picked up in the autopsy and therefore thought that was a safe excuse. Esp. since he probably assumed no one else knew she was pregnant.

 

[golfmom]

myst, my understanding is that a pregnancy test is not performed routinely. It wouldn't have been performed unless LE and the ME had some reason to suspect that Janet was pregnant.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

SES, you're good at this kind of thing. When you have the time, maybe you can list the possible reasons for why Raven still hasn't been arrested. For the sake of this list, maybe we can assume that LE knows that he is the guilty party, he placed himself at the house at the TOD, etc. What is the reason for no arrest? I'd make the list myself but I'm currently wrapped up in surveying the neighborhood from the satellite images. Because if he is the guilty party, and if the timeline is even nearly as tight as the documents imply, the murder weapon can't be very far from the house.

Assuming the TOD is even relatively accurate, THE critical piece of information becomes WHAT TIME RAVEN TOLD LE HE ARRIVED HOME FROM THE SOCCER GAME.

If TOD is correct, and Raven is innocent, the he arrived home AT OR AFTER 1055pm (assuming as per the ME report narrative, that Raven came in, saw Janet kneeling, etc., moves her, sees she not breathing, etc., then calls 911) and BEFORE 1058pm (when the 911 call was logged). If he arrived home at 1055pm-ish, then, he had 3 minutes to make the phone call - and during those three minutes, he finds Janet, moves her, sees she's not breathing, then, he does all that running around, as explained by Rooster, to find a phone, run out to the Durango, etc., etc. Seems entirely farfetched, to me anyway.

So it comes back to what he said to LE, "I got home around ___________."

Let's say he says I got home around 1030pm. Ok, so there's obviously the issue then with TOD. Can the ME testify that yes, Janet died at 1055 exactly? Doubtful. But, according to the report, there is obviously SOMETHING that will allow them to testify, "she died ABOUT 1055pm." So let's say "about" means, give or take 30 minutes. Ok, so then for example, we say Janet died at 1025pm.... even then, if Raven SAYS he got home at 1030, and Janet died at 1025, the timeframe is realllllllllly tight.

IMO, it's all about one thing - TIMING.

My guess is, as has been discussed here already, that in all his careful planning, Raven never counted on having to CHANGE HIS PLANS for that night. And when was faced with a change of plans - he never in a million years could have guessed that TOD could be that closely estimated. And that mistake will cost him big time...and IMO, will be the factor that has him in handcuffs, yet again, very, very soon.

I think LE knows exactly who killed Janet. I think they have suspected it from day one. The delay then? Getting the ducks all in a row. Why? When this case is taken to the DA, I think LE wants one charge and one charge only - premeditated murder in the 1st Degree!!

 

[golfmom]

I think LE knows exactly who killed Janet. I think they have suspected it from day one. The delay then? Getting the ducks all in a row. Why? When this case is taken to the DA, I think LE wants one charge and one charge only - premeditated murder in the 1st Degree!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If he arrived home at 1055pm-ish, then, he had 3 minutes to make the phone call - and during those three minutes, he finds Janet, moves her, sees she's not breathing, then, he does all that running around, as explained by Rooster, to find a phone, run out to the Durango, etc., etc.

Oops, you forgot - he went in to kiss the sleeping Kaiden first.

 

[mysteriew]

And I really do think that he probably planned this for earlier in the evening, like SES said. He's a planner, and not because he's that way naturally but because he NEEDS to be. When his plan changed, I don't think he could handle it in his manic mind. He started to make poor decisions, and probably didn't even think about TOD. I wonder how many people that don't follow crime even know much about TOD.

Looking at Raven's personality, I would be more inclined to say that Raven is impulsive. Think of his toys, his financial disasters. He plans yes- but they are more grandiose plans. Not much practicality to them.
But he is also a think on your feet type of person. Used to making impulsive decisions, a quick plan to carry it out, doesn't look at the long term picture.

 

[mysteriew]

Does anyone know how long it takes to bleed out from a neck wound? I keep wondering about the time that it takes to bleed out and the fact that by the second wound she was already dead. 2-3 min. in a struggle is not a long time, but yet it is a long time. What could have been occuring in that 2-3 min. between the wounds?

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

I think there may very well be an impulsive side of Raven, but, I think he's also a big planner, as evidenced by this excerpt from his blog, written the day before Janet's murder:


"A strength which is evident in this writing is my ability to recognize weakness. Through this recognition of weakness I am able to focus on changing behaviors to better prepare myself for a successful future. I do not like to spend time reflecting on weakness, but as I acknowledge what my weaknesses are I also identify ways to improve on them. To help me keep focused I use Franklin Covey software to organize my projects, goals, tasks, and calendar down to the simplest of steps."

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Looking at Raven's personality, I would be more inclined to say that Raven is impulsive. Think of his toys, his financial disasters. He plans yes- but they are more grandiose plans. Not much practicality to them.
But he is also a think on your feet type of person. Used to making impulsive decisions, a quick plan to carry it out, doesn't look at the long term picture.

I agree with this to a degree. Let me try to explain the way that I see him. He's a very disorganized thinker. He's got so many thoughts flying around in his head at all times that it's hard to keep them straight. He loses interest in things quickly. So he realized that he needed to find a way to stay focused. He found the Franklin Covey software that has helped him to learn how to plan and focus and keep track. He probably uses it to the point of obsessive-compulsive behavior. Because lots of things with him seem to be to the extreme. So he relies heavily on that kind of organization just to keep his own life straight. He's manic, he's not on medication, and he knows that he needs help to keep his thoughts and his life from spinning out of control.

He begins to organize his life to the point of even telling Janet what she can wear, what and when she can eat, who she can talk to and when - probably had a tight fist around the schedule in that household. Extremely difficult type to live with.

As for the murder, he probably had it planned well. From beginning to end. He didn't think of the consequences, no. He didn't think of five years down the road. He had an impulse to murder, but controlled the impulse at least temporarily while he planned it out as perfectly as possible, and then as the day approached, he probably became more frenzied. Sleeping less, distant. I'd love to hear from people what type of mood Raven was in over those last few days. (Maybe it was a plan he had come up with only one or two days in advance even.)

In any case, my point is that even though he's implusive, he's controlled enough to do what he needs to do with that impulse to try to avoid getting caught. So he planned it out meticulously. Picking up Kaiden from the sitter was part of the plan. Taking the cars to the shop was part of the plan. In his mind, his plan was already in motion because he had picked Kaiden up, had dropped the car(s) off, etc. So to not go through with it that night would seem to him to be a failure of the plan. If it didn't happen that night, he would lose his chance. (This is all in HIS mind (perhaps)). He felt like he had to go through with it. If he is indeed manic, and he is indeed adult ADD like he half-joked in the past - I can see him completely flipping out if something happened to alter his plan that he had worked out so carefully. Once the wheels were in motion, he either couldn't turn back or refused to. He had to keep moving forward with it even if it meant improvising. The impulsive, quick-on-his-feet Raven came in to play, and prevented him from realizing the mistakes of this new and quickly changing plan. Once he made up his mind to do this, I don't think that he could have stopped himself if he wanted to.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

I agree with this to a degree. Let me try to explain the way that I see him. He's a very disorganized thinker. He's got so many thoughts flying around in his head at all times that it's hard to keep them straight. He loses interest in things quickly. So he realized that he needed to find a way to stay focused. He found the Franklin Covey software that has helped him to learn how to plan and focus and keep track. He probably uses it to the point of obsessive-compulsive behavior. Because lots of things with him seem to be to the extreme. So he relies heavily on that kind of organization just to keep his own life straight. He's manic, he's not on medication, and he knows that he needs help to stay "on track".

He begins to organize his life to the point of even telling Janet what she can wear, what and when she can eat, who she can talk to and when - probably had a tight fist around the schedule in that household. Extremely difficult type to live with.

As for the murder, he probably had it planned well. From beginning to end. He didn't think of the consequences, no. He didn't think of five years down the road. He had an impulse to murder, but controlled the impulse at least temporarily while he planned it out as perfectly as possible, and then as the day approached, he probably became more frenzied. Sleeping less, irritable. I'd love to hear from people what type of mood Raven was in over those last few days.

In any case, my point is that even though he's implusive, he's controlled enough to do what he needs to do with that impulse to try to avoid getting caught. So he planned it out meticulously. Picking up Kaiden from the sitter was part of the plan. Taking the cars to the shop was part of the plan. In his mind, his plan was already in motion because he had picked Kaiden up, had dropped the car(s) off, etc. So to not go through with it that night would seem to him to be a failure of the plan. If it didn't happen that night, he would lose his chance. (This is all in HIS mind (perhaps)). He felt like he had to go through with it. If he is indeed manic, and he is indeed adult ADD like he half-joked in the past - I can see him completely flipping out if something happened to alter his plan that he had worked out so carefully. Once the wheels were in motion, he either couldn't turn back or refused to. He had to keep moving forward with it even if it meant improvising. The impulsive, quick-on-his-feet Raven came in to play, and prevented him from realizing the mistakes of this new and quickly changing plan. Once he made up his mind to do this, I don't think that he could have stopped himself if he wanted to.

This is hardly babble JG - I think it makes perfect sense...well said!

 

[golfmom]

JG outstanding post! Don't forget too that at heart he is a salesman. He would feel that he could sell any loose ends if needed.

 

[golfmom]

This is hardly babble JG - I think it makes perfect sense...well said!

She has been on quite the roll lately! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

She has been on quite the roll lately! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

It's funny; it sounds so incoherent to me! lol. But as long as you all understand, that's what matters. I know what I'm trying to say yet just can't get it out right. Of course, I edited 3 times already! lol.

 

[newkid]

I think that this scenario is entirely likely.

 

[Tammie63]

So much of the information we have now completely contradicts what Rooster had initially told us. It occurs to me that either Rooster was trying to mislead us with incorrect information or Raven misled Rooster. I wonder which it was?

EXACTLY GM, I felt this from the beginning. Whenever one of you full timers hit a little to close to what might have actually happened then something would be thrown in to try to lead you into a different direction and then the way he came across so strong when he defended Ravens emotions at the funeral.

Anyone know if Raven is right or left-handed?

Just an observation and not a proven fact but I would guess that Raven is right handed just because of the hand he uses to pick the knife up in the Christmas Video.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh:

Can anyone say "BINGO!"

Alright, it looks like I'm in the minority here.....anyone else having a hard time fathoming all of this? If so, come help me please!

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I think LE knows exactly who killed Janet. I think they have suspected it from day one. The delay then? Getting the ducks all in a row. Why? When this case is taken to the DA, I think LE wants one charge and one charge only - premeditated murder in the 1st Degree!!

How many ducks do they need? You have infidelity, embezzlement, pregnancy, marriage problems, financial problems, starting over blog, no rape, no breaking and entering, he collects knives, home at TOD, misinformation about that night to family and friends...gee the pond seems full here!

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I obviously have not read far enough back. What was Raven teaching ? was it connected with his church ? Was he paid for it ? and when did he fit it into his schedule ?
Perhaps you can point me to a thread so I can read up on it. Thanks

Jennifred could probably answer this best. From what I've read, home teachers are 2 or 3 people from the church that visit with families to check on them. I do not think they are paid. I'm not sure raven actually was a home teacher but alluded to the fact that he was preparing a lesson to be a home teacher in a caption under a picture of him and Kaiden. Jennifred?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

How many ducks do they need? You have infidelity, embezzlement, pregnancy, marriage problems, financial problems, starting over blog, no rape, no breaking and entering, he collects knives, home at TOD, misinformation about that night to family and friends...gee the pond seems full here!

Except that most of the things that you've mentioned above are circumstantial. If they don't have cold, hard facts to back them up at trial, they could end up seeing a guilty man acquitted even with a thousand pieces of circumstantial evidence. Juries aren't easy, and they are full of heart. They don't want to convict unless they are certain. In these days of CSI, Court TV, etc., juries are beginning to want forensics to match the theories. That isn't always available. In any situation, any and all evidence, especially hard evidence better be lined up as clearly as possible before even thinking about approaching the DA.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Jennifred could probably answer this best. From what I've read, home teachers are 2 or 3 people from the church that visit with families to check on them. I do not think they are paid. I'm not sure raven actually was a home teacher but alluded to the fact that he was preparing a lesson to be a home teacher in a caption under a picture of him and Kaiden. Jennifred?

Do hometeachers give "homework"? Is there any chance that Raven was doing homework of sorts before his hometeachers arrived?