RDI and IDI

[GuruJosh]

thanks narla i'm moving back to the USA with my wife and daughter in 2 months for a period of 3 years (then we're coming back home to Australia), and i'm getting a similar travelling job that i had last time. i used to fall asleep in distant holiday inn's reading about the JBR case, so i thought i'd better get back into it

ok i take your point, kids can say interesting things, and are constantly developing their ingenuity, making them full of surprises. i'm learning this with my own daughter. But "do roses know their thorns can hurt" seems so sickly sweet, cliche'd and pre-prepared that it surely was invented by some woman in a fantasy-world of candy canes, sweet baby jesus and miracles, maybe even a woman prone to bestowing pretentious francophile names on her daughter

remember that JBR was also an accomplished violinist and bi-lingualist according to Patricia.

i think i've argued before that it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to entertain the possibility that Burke wrote the RN (far fetched but possible) so dont get me wrong. And in this instance i admit that perhaps it's true that JonBenet said she "didn't feel pretty". That's something many people have thought for all kinds of reasons at many stages in life.

so i suppose i took tipper's suggestion out of context there, sorry about that. i have a tendency to hone in on my own little obsessions and miss the real point of arguments oh well.

you know we're even thinking of moving to Boulder. We'll be in Indianapolis for a year, but after that we want to move somewhere beautiful (apologies to any hoosiers here). I've been to Boulder and it was so beautiful...

 

[narlacat]

Was it Patsy who said that about the roses?
I know one story that springs to mind, is the cupcake one....and that wasn't from Patsy that was from JonBenets teacher, or maybe one of the kids I can't remember...

If you go back to Boulder, drive by the house for me lol
Boulder is beautiful, not that I have been there but I know how to google
Good luck with the new job and the amazing questions your daughter may ask

 

[aussiesheila]

This is off topic but that's one of about 5 stories I think are rubbish (maybe for diff reasons than you do, tipper - i dont know). Some other ones that spring to mind are that JonBenet said that she wanted to "feel the rhythm of the earth" under her feet, and the insipid "do roses know their thorns can hurt"? (come ON)

This cutesy fairy-tale mythology tarnishes all the sources that we, sleuthers on this forum, rely on. It's a shame. The death (accidental or otherwise) of a little girl is a disaster and a sickening tragedy. No need to embellish it with BS.

I agree.

 

[rashomon]

Was it Patsy who said that about the roses?

In PMPT the gardener is quoted saying that JB asked him this.

JB asking such a question would not surprise me at all. Kids do ask questions like that (I'm a kindergarten teacher). Not every kid, but the more thoughtful ones do. And I can imagine that beneath the superficial beauty queen facade, JB was a child who asked a lot of questions about life. I don't see the quote (and also that one about the rythm of the earth under her feet), as embellishing at all. It just makes you feel the tragedy even more - what JonBenet could have been, and what she was never allowed to become because she was killed.

 

[rashomon]

Was it Patsy who said that about the roses?

In PMPT the gardener is quoted saying that JB asked him this.

JB asking such a question would not surprise me at all. Kids do ask questions like that (I'm a kindergarten teacher). Not every kid does, but the more thoughtful ones do. And I can imagine that beneath the superficial beauty queen facade, JB was a child who asked a lot of questions about life. I don't see the quote (and also that one about the rythm of the earth under her feet), as, like GuruJosh said, 'embellishing BS' at all. It just makes you feel the tragedy even more - what JonBenet could have been, and what she was never allowed to become because she was so tragically killed.

 

[Toltec]

Six-year-olds tend to be inquisitive, and they will talk up a storm if anyone is around to listen. I remember my son would talk and talk and talk at that age and sometimes I would pretend to be listening because it became too overwhelming for me.

I'm sure Patsy or someone else informed JonBenet that if she were barefoot, she would be able to feel the rythm of the earth. I don't believe it was an original thought by JonBenet.

 

[rashomon]

I'm sure Patsy or someone else informed JonBenet that if she were barefoot, she would be able to feel the rythm of the earth. I don't believe it was an original thought by JonBenet.

Even if it was not an original thought by JonBenet, she obviously picked this thought up. And since she did not have to 'reproduce' this thought like in a 'rote learning' situation, having to spit out what had been drummed into her, I do think that this truly meant something to her.
I don't believe JB got this thought from Patsy either. Not to sound nasty, but imo if Patsy had seen JB barefoot, she probably would have thought more about the toothnail polish her daughter was going to wear on her next pageant than about what JB would be able to feel if she were barefoot.

Which is why I think JB got this idea from her kindergarten teachers, who let the childen walk barefoot and then talked with them about the feelings they had.

 

[Rupert]

Getting a little bit back to the idea of this thread, can anyone post the picture of JAR at the Bank Machine?

Wouldn't the cops even see his clothes and height and ascertain reasonably that it was him? Surely they would have had corroboration on his alibi?

I thought also that the "forgiveness" remark was a little too kind to the garroter. Maybe JAR knows something we don't.

The fact that his suitcase got connected to this case with micro fibres suggests something weird.

JAR was not PR's own. Why would she cover for him?

Definitely makes this case interesting. That's why we're here.

 

[narlacat]

Rupert
I've never seen that pic of JAR at the atm.
I hope someone posts it or has a link, would be interesting for a look.

 

[aussiesheila]

In PMPT the gardener is quoted saying that JB asked him this.

JB asking such a question would not surprise me at all. Kids do ask questions like that (I'm a kindergarten teacher). Not every kid does, but the more thoughtful ones do. And I can imagine that beneath the superficial beauty queen facade, JB was a child who asked a lot of questions about life. I don't see the quote (and also that one about the rythm of the earth under her feet), as, like GuruJosh said, 'embellishing BS' at all. It just makes you feel the tragedy even more - what JonBenet could have been, and what she was never allowed to become because she was so tragically killed.

agreed, children do ask interesting questions rashomon, but the word 'rhythm' is not in the average or even above average english-speaking 6 year old's lexicon of words believe me, that is why GuruJosh and I think that particular quote was BS.

 

[Paradox]

Who says what between Patsy and JonBenet? Is it Patsy? Is it JonBenet? Maybe it's that "we" thingy again. Wherever we go, whatever we do, we're gonna go through it together ... we, we, we, all the home, all the way to heaven.

 

[rashomon]

agreed, children do ask interesting questions rashomon, but the word 'rhythm' is not in the average or even above average english-speaking 6 year old's lexicon of words believe me, that is why GuruJosh and I think that particular quote was BS.

But it could have been if JonBenet had musical education for example.

Another possibility is that Pam Paugh translated something JB had told her about wanting to feel the earth under her feet by using the word 'rhythm'.

 

[UKGuy]

ok i take your point, kids can say interesting things, and are constantly developing their ingenuity, making them full of surprises. i'm learning this with my own daughter. But "do roses know their thorns can hurt" seems so sickly sweet, cliche'd and pre-prepared that it surely was invented by some woman in a fantasy-world of candy canes, sweet baby jesus and miracles, maybe even a woman prone to bestowing pretentious francophile names on her daughter

GuruJosh,

Or an author seeking to characterise a child victim, he never knew personally!


.

 

[icedtea4me]

I've always had the opinion that JonBenet was molested at the party on the 23rd, and read somewhere that there were about 100 people there, not just the ones in the snapshot some of us saw years ago at, I think, Justice Watch.

The party on the 23rd had maybe 20 or so people there, tops. I believe you may be thinking of a party the Ramseys had earlier that month.

I think something so bad happened that JonBenet was crying and tried to call 911 because none of the adults would help.

From what I have read, it was said that Fleet was trying to make a call regarding his mother's (who was in Aspen) medication. Isn't it possible that he didn't know the number he needed to dial off-hand, meant to dial 411 for information, and inadvertently dialed 911?

-Tea

 

[icedtea4me]

I wonder what type of activities were planned for the children at the party on the 23rd?

On pg 43 of PMPT (pb version) it is mentioned "There were gingerbread houses for each family to decorate with gumdrops." Patsy purchased these pre-fab gingerbread houses along with tubs of white icing and assorted candies for the party on the 23rd. There is even a pic of JonBenet in her blue velvet party dress by one of these houses in the kitchen. The other activity, which may have occurred first, was the visit by Santa and Mrs. Claus. Patsy had hand-written a personal note about each child/guest for Santa/Mrs. Claus to read as they passed out the party gifts.

-Tea

 

[Camper]

On pg 43 of PMPT (pb version) it is mentioned "There were gingerbread houses for each family to decorate with gumdrops." Patsy purchased these pre-fab gingerbread houses along with tubs of white icing and assorted candies for the party on the 23rd. There is even a pic of JonBenet in her blue velvet party dress by one of these houses in the kitchen. The other activity, which may have occurred first, was the visit by Santa and Mrs. Claus. Patsy had hand-written a personal note about each child/guest for Santa/Mrs. Claus to read as they passed out the party gifts.

-Tea

----->>>Welcome to the forum, thank you for responding.

I am wondering if Fleet did make a call and dial wrong trying to get info for his mother. The 911 operator would have tried to call the R number RIGHT BACK, but no one answered. So my thought is wouldn't the number have been BUSY when 911 tried to call back IF he were on the phone?

I wonder if Caller ID was a function for 911 operator in 1996 so that they could ID the number to call back OR OR IF when the 911 connection was not broken from the 911 end, IF they can re ring the caller? Anyone know that?

.

 

[icedtea4me]

The party on the 23rd had maybe 20 or so people there, tops. I believe you may be thinking of a party the Ramseys had earlier that month.
From what I have read, it was said that Fleet was trying to make a call regarding his mother's (who was in Aspen) medication. Isn't it possible that he didn't know the number he needed to dial off-hand, meant to dial 411 for information, and inadvertently dialed 911?

-Tea

DOI pg. 95- On December 23 thirty-one people arrived for the party: the Whites, the Barnhills, the Fernies, the Stines, and the Barbers, and all their children, plus their assorted house guests.

DOI pg. 97- During the party Fleet White used our phone to make a series of calls, trying to get some medicine to his mother in a hospital in Aspen. Apparently he dialed wrong and got 911. The police called back, but after checking with Fleet and the rest of the people in the house, Susan Stine informed them that the call was a mistake. The 911 call still remains somewhat of a mystery.

-Tea

 

[Toltec]

DOI pg. 95- On December 23 thirty-one people arrived for the party: the Whites, the Barnhills, the Fernies, the Stines, and the Barbers, and all their children, plus their assorted house guests.

DOI pg. 97- During the party Fleet White used our phone to make a series of calls, trying to get some medicine to his mother in a hospital in Aspen. Apparently he dialed wrong and got 911. The police called back, but after checking with Fleet and the rest of the people in the house, Susan Stine informed them that the call was a mistake. The 911 call still remains somewhat of a mystery.

-Tea

It could be a simple mistake....Fleet was calling overseas and instead of punching 011...he punches 911. He was attempting to talk to someone regarding his mothers medication which was coming in through some airline.

 

[aussiesheila]

It could be a simple mistake....Fleet was calling overseas and instead of punching 011...he punches 911. He was attempting to talk to someone regarding his mothers medication which was coming in through some airline.

When did FW reveal this bit of info and to whom? I don't suppose he said which phone he called from. Was if from the kitchen phone in full view of other guests? Or was if from one of the phones up on the second floor or somewhere else out of sight of the adults at the party?

 

[Toltec]

When did FW reveal this bit of info and to whom? I don't suppose he said which phone he called from. Was if from the kitchen phone in full view of other guests? Or was if from one of the phones up on the second floor or somewhere else out of sight of the adults at the party?

I believe it was in the den.