RN Keywords

[coloradokares]

Why is it I have to explain the unusual actions of a unknown "perpetrator" yet so many can believe that otherwise wonderful parents can suddenly bash their daughters head in because she wet her bed, wipe her down and change her into the wrong underware, dye and style her hair and then proceed to tie her up, strangle her, molest her with a paint brush, leave her in the basement for dead while then composing a three page ransome note based on hit movies, call ploice to the house, invite friends over to contaminate evidence and six hours later find the body themselves to contaminate more evidence as part of their ingenious plan?

I don't know why a perpetrator would return the body to the house besides suspecting that something unexpected happend to foreshawdow the event.

Wonderful parents instill a strong sense of appropriate boundaries in their childrens lives. It starts very young with teaching them self esteem yet responsibility. I don't know what kind of parent Patsy would have been without the cancer. I think about the same perhaps as she was with cancer actually. You teach children NO you don't whittle all over the house or you clean it up. You don't teach them beauty is everything. You teach them to whom much is given much is expected in this world. Did it occur what dying JB's hair taught JB. That to be beautiful you must alter your appearance. That does not teach self acceptance. If good boundaries were being taught JB would not have kicked Patsy at one of the Paegents. If Patsy was listening perhaps JonBenet could have been a normal kid.

 

[4sure]

Wonderful parents instill a strong sense of appropriate boundaries in their childrens lives. It starts very young with teaching them self esteem yet responsibility. I don't know what kind of parent Patsy would have been without the cancer. I think about the same perhaps as she was with cancer actually. You teach children NO you don't whittle all over the house or you clean it up. You don't teach them beauty is everything. You teach them to whom much is given much is expected in this world. Did it occur what dying JB's hair taught JB. That to be beautiful you must alter your appearance. That does not teach self acceptance. If good boundaries were being taught JB would not have kicked Patsy at one of the Paegents. If Patsy was listening perhaps JonBenet could have been a normal kid.

At the moment the only thing that comes to mind is a word.
Presumptuous

 

[coloradokares]

At the moment the only thing that comes to mind is a word.
Presumptuous

Another word comes to my mind. Because my parents were wonderful parents and I learned boundaries I do not use that word Let your imagination go wild. You'll get there eventually!

 

[cynpat2000]

:clap:

"Otherwise wonderful parents"...

Here's where I disagree. One parent was never home and had very little idea what was going on in his own home, and the other ignored her child's recurring health issues to focus on a life of junior pageantry and riding on floats in parades.

Personally, I think they were both neglectful, self-centered parents who valued themselves over their own daughter.

Desperate people do desperate things. I don't think they needed to strangle JonBenet - the intruder could have killed her by striking her on the head. I assume the strangling needed to cover up previous injury to the neck, and that's why they felt they needed to tie a cord around her neck. I think the paintbrush injury is meant to raise doubt or misdirect from previous molestation. They had to call police eventually, and the friends provided a buffer as well as contamination. I think they thought JonBenet's body would be found by police before the calls from the 'napper were supposed to come.

I can't see a perp who kidnapped a child from her home taking the risk of being caught returning her for any reason. He could just stop on any lonely road and dump her in a ditch. Why would he take the chance of being caught putting her back in the house? He certainly isn't going to be getting the ransom the RN claims the crime is about.

:clap: :clap: :clap: My thoughts exactly , no perpetrator is going to take the body back,Plus leave no dna.

 

[coloradokares]

What perpetrator would take his victim out of the house and then bring it back????!

If the body had left the home wouldn't there have been forensic evidence acquired from the area the body was left at outside the home then brought back. Vehicle carpet fibers something ..... Random particles if nothing else that had to come from out of the home.

 

[cynpat2000]

If the body had left the home wouldn't there have been forensic evidence acquired from the area the body was left at outside the home then brought back. Vehicle carpet fibers something ..... Random particles if nothing else that had to come from out of the home.

Exactly!!!and theres not even any evidence that their was any intruder near her much less have taken her outside....

 

[4sure]

Another word comes to my mind. Because my parents were wonderful parents and I learned boundaries I do not use that word Let your imagination go wild. You'll get there eventually!

If one would presume to draw conclusions on another person life then one would have shown no boundaries.

 

[4sure]

Exactly!!!and theres not even any evidence that their was any intruder near her much less have taken her outside....

Sure there is. We have a neighbor as a witness. Who of course was quickly threatend to shut up about any scream she heard and sounds her husband heard when awoken by LE. Wonder why?

 

[Eagle1]

Sure there is. We have a neighbor as a witness. Who of course was quickly threatend to shut up about any scream she heard and sounds her husband heard when awoken by LE. Wonder why?

The Barnhills evidently were told to shut up too,when they saw someone RESEMBLING JAR, just like the Stantons. I'm glad somebody noticed.

Maybe it wasn't really JAR, just more of the staging, trying to frame all of the family? And at least it revealed that maybe there'a a lookalike. Maybe so, maybe not.

 

[coloradokares]

If one would presume to draw conclusions on another person life then one would have shown no boundaries.

This is about a little girls death, her life cut way to short because acceptable boundaries were crossed right in my back yard so to speak. That changes things. NO ONE should accept murder. Since it was at the time my immediate local community that also gives the right to question. I will leave it to a jury of peers to draw the final conclusions. What I shall work on is making sure that the jury has the opportunity to draw their conclusions. That is the acceptable social norms, is it not.

 

[4sure]

This is about a little girls death, her life cut way to short because acceptable boundaries were crossed right in my back yard so to speak. That changes things. NO ONE should accept murder. Since it was at the time my immediate local community that also gives the right to question. I will leave it to a jury of peers to draw the final conclusions. What I shall work on is making sure that the jury has the opportunity to draw their conclusions. That is the acceptable social norms, is it not.

Well perhaps you could offer a little evidence (less opinion) that JBR's was not a "normal kid". First maybe you could help me with what in your opinion is a normal kid.

 

[coloradokares]

Well perhaps you could offer a little evidence (less opinion) that JBR's was not a "normal kid". First maybe you could help me with what in your opinion is a normal kid.

One that has a strong sense of self and has self esteem centered in achievements vs looks. Kicking Patsy at a paegent in full view of witnesses
stretched the boundaries a little. I never said they were not normal. What I said is they were perhaps over indulged. Perhaps the better way to say it is to reinfoce boundaries that are expected age appropriate.

 

[4sure]

One that has a strong sense of self and has self esteem centered in achievements vs looks. Kicking Patsy at a paegent in full view of witnesses
stretched the boundaries a little. I never said they were not normal.What I said is they were perhaps over indulged. Perhaps the better way to say it is to reinfoce boundaries that are expected age appropriate.

It's exactly what you said.

If Patsy was listening perhaps JonBenet could have been a normal kid..

I do believe JBR was recieving lessons in dance, singing and music also. To say JBR only lessons were all about looks is a bit of a stretch. Paying attention to her apperance is only one thing JBR seems to have been being taught.

 

[coloradokares]

It's exactly what you said.I do believe JBR was recieving lessons in dance, singing and music also. To say JBR only lessons were all about looks is a bit of a stretch. Paying attention to her apperance is only one thing JBR seems to have been being taught.

Yes all pageant related with the Miss America goal always on the mind.

I know what I think, as well as what I say if what I am saying does not make sense to you I have to believe that part of that is you don't wish to comprehend I am not talking about the yelling sessions that Linda H. Pugh was talking about in the bathroom. But the incredible messes the kids could make in 2 days time. Those kids were not taught to make thier beds pick up their own messes. Burke whittled wherever he wanted in the house. You only have to read for yourself that alone know people to know that I am not saying they were not able to comprehend boundaries. Kids actually gain much comfort and security from boundaries. They were never disciplined and that came from many sources. BOUNDARIES ....all children are adorable and sweet and innocent but eventually lack of age appropriate boundaries ...... shows. While adorable kids without boundaries start to force issues to get the parents to establish some kind of guidelines. Some kids that age are already making their own beds and picking up after themselves very well. If you cannot see what I am saying I apologize. I am sure some relate very well to what I am saying. I was playing the recitals at that age . I also was singing solo's in church at that age. I was on display in another way. I also was responsible to make my own bed keep my room picked up make sure my clothes were orderly and in the laundry. Toileting myself was a far and away long gone accomplishment long before that age.

 

[Eagle1]

I think JonBenet's is a special case. Her mom had been sick a lot, unable to exert much discipline if she'd wanted to, and her father was away a lot.

LHP was being paid to clean up the messes instead of give orders to the family, like hiding Burke's whittling knife, if my memory is correct. It reminds me of that character "Florence" in "The Jeffersons" who's always smarting off to George Jefferson and his wife never notices that it's wrong.

JBR was evidently being abused, by someone. We simply don't know who, and that alone would probably account for her losing it and acting out in front of people and her toileting issues.

 

[Solace]

Well perhaps you could offer a little evidence (less opinion) that JBR's was not a "normal kid". First maybe you could help me with what in your opinion is a normal kid.

4Sure: JonBenet was being groomed to be a sex symbol. She is strutting and working that body across the stage. She is 5 years old. The next pageant or dress up was to be Marilyn Monroe. Marilyn Monroe says "SEX SYMBOL". She had her hair dyed. Again, she is 5 and probably 4 when that started, maybe even three. That is absurd.

Also I would like to address the fact that you say most parents are bad parents. If that were true, we would have a lot more serial killers walking around. Maybe most parents do not do everything right, but to say that most parents are "bad" parents is something that I disagree with.

I do not know what happened that night, BUT, the evidence is pointing right in their direction and they are doing NOTHING to disprove it. They lie everytime they go on TV. Patsy is stoned most of the time in her interviews. I have seen three where she is not rambling or slurring her words. I know she lost a child, but they did NOTHING to help solve this case in the beginning. They did EVERYTHING to avoid the police. They said on LKL that they would take a lie detector test and were nowhere to be found afterwards. The fibers that were found in the garrotte did not magically appear there. They got there because Patsy brought them there. They did not magically appear under the tape, Patsy was close by.

There was some kind of hell going on in that house that night. And Patsy has a very convenient memory but when she does speak, she inevitably says more than she should, such as seeing the heart the morning of the 26th and recanting the next day.

 

[coloradokares]

I think JonBenet's is a special case. Her mom had been sick a lot, unable to exert much discipline if she'd wanted to, and her father was away a lot.

LHP was being paid to clean up the messes instead of give orders to the family, like hiding Burke's whittling knife, if my memory is correct. It reminds me of that character "Florence" in "The Jeffersons" who's always smarting off to George Jefferson and his wife never notices that it's wrong.

JBR was evidently being abused, by someone. We simply don't know who, and that alone would probably account for her losing it and acting out in front of people and her toileting issues.

You are right when you say LHP was being paid to clean up the messes. Most maid services would have QUIT! So Patsy must have been satisfied with LHP. Patsy had hired LHP away from the service. So in that regard I am sure expectations had changed. However a peek inside the family and how it operated behind the scenes would be inevitable for anyone who worked inside the home like LHP did. She spoke of the bathroom yelling sessions etc. I don't think LHP was out telling family secrets. She was interviewed about details because JonBenet died a horrible death. Violent death. No one would have ever heard the behind the scenes things had that not occured. Probably all that and the boundary issues would have been never spoken of. Hidden from the public view as most child abuse is. Some really private family dynamics came out in a very public way because the family was investigated because their child died in what appeared to investigators to not be the kidnapping the Ramseys reported. It looked staged to investigators. JonBenet's skull had an 8 1/2 inch fracture. At that point questions are bound to be asked. Friends neighbors etc speak of JonBenet's toileting issues. However toilet issues were not probably the only issues. Patsy was doing really well. Chemo was over and she was active in the childrens lives. She was considered healed in her own words. Patsy by all accounts ( many sources to these accounts ) was a perfectionist and liked to be in charge and control. She cultivated and tried to maintain the appearance of perfection. Perfect family. Yet according to LHP and many other credible sources the kids could create huge messes and that is not compatible with the perfectionist image . One that fits the Perfect Murder Perfect Town. Perfect family thing. John and Patsy were not seen publicallyby others to be discipliners of the kids at all. No one would accuse them of spanking or abuse. In fact what came out was the opposite view. Like, why didnt they set some boundaries? But no at least to my knowledge they were not ever accused of any corporal abuse. Yet others speak of the toileting issues, the messes, the war of wills starting between Patsy and JonBenet, the kicking at Patsy at a Pageant. So there were at least signs that maybe things were not all as perfect as the public image. What happens then if the damn breaks? Not saying it did in this case. What happens, far to often and what experts who work in child abuse know is that is way to much air gets pumped into the balloon and eventually the balloon blows up.

I have not changed your opinion. Nor have you changed mine. Most of how I formulated my opinion was not read in print. It was the six degrees thing. People who knew people who knew who investigated la la la.

 

[Solace]

You are right when you say LHP was being paid to clean up the messes. Most maid services would have QUIT! So Patsy must have been satisfied with LHP. Patsy had hired LHP away from the service. So in that regard I am sure expectations had changed. However a peek inside the family and how it operated behind the scenes would be inevitable for anyone who worked inside the home like LHP did. She spoke of the bathroom yelling sessions etc. I don't think LHP was out telling family secrets. She was interviewed about details because JonBenet died a horrible death. Violent death. No one would have ever heard the behind the scenes things had that not occured. Probably all that and the boundary issues would have been never spoken of. Hidden from the public view as most child abuse is. Some really private family dynamics came out in a very public way because the family was investigated because their child died in what appeared to investigators to not be the kidnapping the Ramseys reported. It looked staged to investigators. JonBenet's skull had an 8 1/2 inch fracture. At that point questions are bound to be asked. Friends neighbors etc speak of JonBenet's toileting issues. However toilet issues were not probably the only issues. Patsy was doing really well. Chemo was over and she was active in the childrens lives. She was considered healed in her own words. Patsy by all accounts ( many sources to these accounts ) was a perfectionist and liked to be in charge and control. She cultivated and tried to maintain the appearance of perfection. Perfect family. Yet according to LHP and many other credible sources the kids could create huge messes and that is not compatible with the perfectionist image . One that fits the Perfect Murder Perfect Town. Perfect family thing. John and Patsy were not seen publicallyby others to be discipliners of the kids at all. No one would accuse them of spanking or abuse. In fact what came out was the opposite view. Like, why didnt they set some boundaries? But no at least to my knowledge they were not ever accused of any corporal abuse. Yet others speak of the toileting issues, the messes, the war of wills starting between Patsy and JonBenet, the kicking at Patsy at a Pageant. So there were at least signs that maybe things were not all as perfect as the public image. What happens then if the damn breaks? Not saying it did in this case. What happens, far to often and what experts who work in child abuse know is that is way to much air gets pumped into the balloon and eventually the balloon blows up.

I have not changed your opinion. Nor have you changed mine. Most of how I formulated my opinion was not read in print. It was the six degrees thing. People who knew people who knew who investigated la la la.

When did JonBenet kick at Patsy. Is it on film?

 

[4sure]

4Sure: JonBenet was being groomed to be a sex symbol. She is strutting and working that body across the stage. She is 5 years old. The next pageant or dress up was to be Marilyn Monroe. Marilyn Monroe says "SEX SYMBOL". She had her hair dyed. Again, she is 5 and probably 4 when that started, maybe even three. That is absurd.

Solace its just my opinion that most folks are over reacting. A six year old girl in a bikini on the beach is only sexy to a pervert just like a six year old girl performing in a pageant costume is not sexy no matter what she's doing. Thousands of girls perform in dance troops and pageants and so on and live perfectly normal lives. Ive never seen a photo showing JBR's hair dyed a different color only lightend or highlighted a bit.

 

[Eagle1]

I think you're right that a 6 yr old could only look sexy to a pervert, but her hair did look like it had been lightened a lot. For instance in the picture with the white costume, feather boa, etc.

In the picture that a "portrait" was painted from, I believe she was a brownette.

And I want to remind us for the benefit of those who keep repeating there was no evidence of an intruder, that

BOTH Melody Stanton and her husband and the Barnhills, 4 people that we know of, heard or saw someone, and apparently were silenced. There may have been others, who didn't come forward or were not interviewed.

Just to make sure we know both sides of the story. We're seeking whole truth and nothing but the truth, not just having a contest betw RDI' s and IDI's. Anything can sound like truth until you hear the other side, and appearances can be deceiving. Neither side knows the whole truth yet.