RULED OUT: Have we found Anna? Possible match to NamUs case UP 9597 - *NO MATCH*

[SideKick]

Looking forward to hearing the results of Doogie's phone call! I sure hope that it is positive and not another set back. It just seems so darn long to hear anything, it's not right.
Praying in Canada

 

[Cubby]

I wish we would hear something.....

Whether it be that the sample is too small and we have to wait for the technology to catch up, or there are a given number of samples before ours and there are x number of cases ahead of us.....

Anything to know the sample is not sitting in storage collecting dust somewhere at the private lab. Hopefully the coroner's office can inquire with the private lab for some sort of status.

 

[SideKick]

Hi,

Hate to push but wondering if Dr. Doogie has had a chance to call the lab?
I m really getting frustrated not hearing any updates from them.
Best to you Doogie... thanks for looking into this!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

The coroner's office is pushing the DOJ. I am giving them until the end of this month before we go to the next level of pressure.

 

[amber1]

The coroner's office is pushing the DOJ. I am giving them until the end of this month before we go to the next level of pressure.

I hope we get some answers soon! I realize things take time but....damn! At this point, I am very skeptical it's even her.

 

[Cubby]

The coroner's office is pushing the DOJ. I am giving them until the end of this month before we go to the next level of pressure.

Doogie, respectfully. It sounds like the coroners office is not in direct contact with the private lab. I wonder if the coroners office can contact the private lab directly or that is a huge no no for them?

Really wondering now, because it doesn't sound like the hold up is with the coroners office, but rather with the CA-DOJ. We need to get the CA-DOJ to contact the private lab, or the coroners office to bypass the CA-DOJ and contact the private lab directly.

lease:Let it be possible the coroner's office can contact the private lab lease:

 

[SideKick]

It does seem odd not to get some kind of answer from someone somewhere!

How many years have we/Anna's Family been waiting?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Our prayers go out to Annas family. We have been lighting candles and praying for you to get an answer, and to find comfort and peace in that answer.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Tommorow is my deadline to either have answers or I ratchet up the pressure on LE. I am working on my smartphone and researching our archives is difficult. Can someone look up the dates for the following events:

When we first notified the coroner of the possible match

When the sample was sent to the DOJ

When the DOJ sent the sample to the private lab

I do not need exact dates. - just the month and year to create an accurate timeline. Thanks!

 

[Cubby]

Tommorow is my deadline to either have answers or I ratchet up the pressure on LE. I am working on my smartphone and researching our archives is difficult. Can someone look up the dates for the following events:

When we first notified the coroner of the possible match - January 2012

When the sample was sent to the DOJ - Unknown, but prior to our discovery of the possible match in January of 2012. Namus did not give us a date, only that the sample had been submitted and a case # with the CA-DOJ.

When the DOJ sent the sample to the private lab - I have to look this one up, give me a little bit.

I do not need exact dates. - just the month and year to create an accurate timeline. Thanks!

Hi Doogie, my answers above in red.

 

[Cubby]

I finally heard back from the coroner. The sample was sent directly from the CA DOJ to the private lab, not from the DOJ to San Mateo to the lab. This explains the lack of info about "progress" since the chain-of-custody was different than what we were first led to believe. The coroner said that the sample was sent in January when we first started the process and that the timeframe was around "two to three" months before we get results. That means that we are looking at our test being toward the "top of the pile" with results likely in around a month from now. This is much faster than the testing of "Mystry Woman C" which took around a year to complete. As painful as the wait is, we are close to getting an answer.

Since we will be seeing results soon and the coroner seemed rushed when we spoke, I did not pursue any questions concerning the teeth. I did not want to complicate the issue or seem like we were pestering her. We should have a definitive answer soon and did not want to give her the impression that we were questioning her or her department's work. If, for some reason, we do not get an answer within this timeframe, I will broach the teeth issue with the coroner.

Doogie, this is the first info posted about the private lab- dated March 7, 2012. I don't believe we ever confirmed an exact time frame the private lab got the sample from the CA-DOJ.

A conservate guess would be no later than the summer of 2012, probably the spring of 2012. I don't think the CA-DOJ sent the sample to the private lab in Jan of 2012.

HTH and please let me know if you need any more info.

Good luck. I hope these calls help get some answers as to what is happening with this comparison.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Thanks, Cubby.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Still no results, but it looks like we may get some help from a state senator's office. The aide I spoke to was familar with Anna's case from media reports and will try to help get some answers.

 

[floridamomma]

Just curious, is this "par for the course" in cases like this? I understand that current criminal matters are going to be at the front of the line, but I'm sure there are so many other UID remains... do they typically take so long?

:frustrated:

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Just curious, is this "par for the course" in cases like this? I understand that current criminal matters are going to be at the front of the line, but I'm sure there are so many other UID remains... do they typically take so long?

:frustrated:

It took about one year to get results during a previous DNA test for us, so this has been slow even by DOJ standards.

However, good news: Annasmom's local state senator's office is looking into the delay and may be able to push this forward. We just received confirmation this afternoon.

 

[Cubby]

We have to remember, the last DNA test was with another living person. This is a very small sample, which was probably tested by the CA-DOJ without succesfully obtaining a viable DNA strand...... We don't know how much of the sample the CA-DOJ used before it was sent off to the private lab.

There are numerous examples of unidentified remains in CA that have taken up to 5 years to obtain a viable DNA strand. The time would be shorter with a larger, more recent sample.... There is so little to work with and the sample is aged, possibly damaged by being submerged in the ocean for a long period of time.

That said, after 18 months with a family waiting, I think they owe Anna's family something. Local LE knows what is going on, the local coroners office knows what is going on - as far as knowing about those waiting. Does the CA-DOJ and the private lab even have a clue a family is waiting and has been waiting a year and a half now?

After this much time - 18 months into the wait, Anna's family deserves some kind of statement from those responsible for overseeing Anna's case. That would be the detective handling the case. The coroners office has the responsibility to id the remains. The detective handling Anna's case has the obligation to ensure everything possible is being done to determine whether or not these remains are Anna's.

The state senator may help, but honestly, I'd push via the media at this point (hopefully with some comments/statments from the senator). Thinking of something titled along the lines of "A family waits".... It's been 18 months since Anna's family has learned of...... and they are unable to get any kind of answers as to where the comparison stands. I'm no writer, but I would contact the media so the public is aware of the lack of answers and seemingly everyone who has been contacted says another agency is responsible..... Someone needs to quit pointing the finger elsewhere, pick up the buck instead of passing it and find, no demand, some answers.

Even I'm getting inpatient, and for me that's a lot... considering I've asked everyone to be patient for sometime with this possible match.

Thanks for letting me vent a little there....... I hope getting the senator involved with the media will be considered. And I don't just mean the Half Moon Bay paper, but the bigger papers in the area... Provided it is ok with Annasmom and family, I think even an interview with Dr. Doogie and the state senator, maybe some photo's of the websleuths thread for this possible (which I am seeing more and more in the media) and knowledge of the wait, whatever the outcome, could put some pressure on those with the powers to make this happen and get some answers.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Cubby, I have discussed the media option with Annasmom and decided against it for now. If this tactic does not work, we will revisit it.

 

[Odyssey]

Ok, maybe a dumb question here...

Does anyone know what the actual process of extracting dna is? Is it done by a person or by a machine?

I guess I'm just trying to see the difference between a swab from a live person and a skeletal sample... what would make the process so different that it would take 5 years for a skeletal sample as opposed to 1 year for a swab?

 

[Cubby]

Ok, maybe a dumb question here...

Does anyone know what the actual process of extracting dna is? Is it done by a person or by a machine?

I guess I'm just trying to see the difference between a swab from a live person and a skeletal sample... what would make the process so different that it would take 5 years for a skeletal sample as opposed to 1 year for a swab?

DNA degrades as it ages. Being exposed to certain elements degrades DNA. Human bones are porous and I have wondered if that might have left it impossible to find a viable dna strand via the bone material.

I know dna can be found in the tooth, but we don't know how many baby teeth were still intact and we don't know what size sample is available from the remaining teeth.

Plus each time an effort is made to obtain a viable dna strand, less of the sample is available.

 

[Annasmom]

DNA degrades as it ages. Being exposed to certain elements degrades DNA. Human bones are porous and I have wondered if that might have left it impossible to find a viable dna strand via the bone material.

I know dna can be found in the tooth, but we don't know how many baby teeth were still intact and we don't know what size sample is available from the remaining teeth.

Plus each time an effort is made to obtain a viable dna strand, less of the sample is available.

I think it is important to remember that we are not scientists and that there are many, many variables in the process of retrieving and comparing DNA (viable samples have been found in very ancient life forms, for example.) One this is for sure: Unless they begin the process, it will take a very long time. As far as we know, the private laboratory has not even begun the process. When (or IF) they do, they should tell us right away if they are unable to get a sample, as the local labs did when they tried to get samples from Anna's little shoes. I have regretted those shoes many times. If I had known...I would have kept them rather than let them be destroyed.

Regarding media: I am begging for your indulgence. I have been through the media circus too many times. I do not wish to go through it again. If publicity is necessary, I believe it should be possible to handle it as a case without the pity factor of showing the mother crying, etc., etc. Maybe you would have to have television cameras on you for days on end to really appreciate what I'm talking about. Please do not ask me to do this again.

That being said, I want to thank you, my WebSleuths friends, for standing by me and supporting me all these months and years. I'm not sure I would have been able to keep on going without your hope, help, prayers and good wishes.